Baiting Coyotes

[erussell]

Skin it. Sell it.

Sell it to the Thai food resturants 

[First-light]

Hey-I swore I had that yesterday in NYC. We ordered Vietmanese food!!! I have had it before and is very good!!!! (not the yote)

My neighbor tells me years ago he heard of guys putting out treble hooks with meat on it. You hang these from trees on piano wire just high enough for them to jump and...............forgot the rest of the story?

[jusputtn]

Watch the fields where the farmers spread manure in the winter.  There will be things like after birth and corn kernels in it that can attract them.

[bhw]

Here is an article I wrote for Predator Xtreme magazine that covers the topic...

http://www.predatorxtreme-digital.com/predatorx/200912#pg33

[nyantler]

I know this might start a ruckus, but I'm curious what the differnece is between baiting coyotes and baiting deer... most hunters don't like the idea of baiting whitetails, but have no problem baiting coyotes. Be interesting to know why they feel one is better than the other when it comes to fair chase. not trying to cause trouble.. i am seriously curious.

[bhw]

Probably has to do with the notion that many people regard the coyote as a nuisance or as harmful to other species populations such as deer.

[nyantler]

Thats kinda what I thought... even though I'm not sure why one animal is more important than the rest.

[Doc]

I know this might start a ruckus, but I'm curious what the differnece is between baiting coyotes and baiting deer... most hunters don't like the idea of baiting whitetails, but have no problem baiting coyotes. Be interesting to know why they feel one is better than the other when it comes to fair chase. not trying to cause trouble.. i am seriously curious.

I think that when it comes to coyotes (and other predators), the gloves come off. Fair chase is not an issue when it comes to the attempt at eradicating coyotes. We have this attitude that similar to mosquitos ...... the world would be better off without them. Whether we all agree with that attitude or not, I think that answers your question as to why principles of fair chase apply to one species and not the other for many hunters.

Another obvious consideration is that when it comes to the coyote trapline, baiting has been an acceptable practice for centuries. There's not much of a fair-chase implication there. It's not a great leap to apply trapping ethics to hunting ethics. 

Perhaps another example would be shooting rats at the dump. Is there any rules of fair chase being worried about there? Are there any fair-chase concerns when it comes to roach baits/traps? .......bug-spray? How about those mouse traps? Let's face it, we do pick and choose what rules we apply to each different species. That's why we hunt and trap coyotes but feed and house our pet dogs. Different species get different considerations from humans. And it doesn't always make perfect sense.

[nyantler]

I know this might start a ruckus, but I'm curious what the differnece is between baiting coyotes and baiting deer... most hunters don't like the idea of baiting whitetails, but have no problem baiting coyotes. Be interesting to know why they feel one is better than the other when it comes to fair chase. not trying to cause trouble.. i am seriously curious.

I think that when it comes to coyotes (and other predators), the gloves come off. Fair chase is not an issue when it comes to the attempt at eradicating coyotes. We have this attitude that similar to mosquitos ...... the world would be better off without them. Whether we all agree with that attitude or not, I think that answers your question as to why principles of fair chase apply to one species and not the other for many hunters.

Another obvious consideration is that when it comes to the coyote trapline, baiting has been an acceptable practice for centuries. There's not much of a fair-chase implication there. It's not a great leap to apply trapping ethics to hunting ethics. 

Perhaps another example would be shooting rats at the dump. Is there any rules of fair chase being worried about there? Are there any fair-chase concerns when it comes to roach baits/traps? .......bug-spray? How about those mouse traps? Let's face it, we do pick and choose what rules we apply to each different species. That's why we hunt and trap coyotes but feed and house our pet dogs. Different species get different considerations from humans. And it doesn't always make perfect sense.

I guess all that is pretty much what I had in my head... but i am specifically refurring to hunter mentality as it pertains to protected species... rats and bugs have no season and are disposed off as deemed necessary to eliminate distruction or invasion of personal property... coyotes are a game animal with specific rules and regs...I realize baiting them is legal... just don't understand why a responsible hunter would think baiting one game animal over not baiting another is acceptable. It's kind of like "as long as they tell me I can do it, I will, even if I don't think it's right or necessary".

And I understand the trapline answer...  but with traps you need to actually lure and get the animal into the trap... now you introduce a weapon that can reach out 100 or more yards... and the baiting issue becomes a questionable practice in my opinion. You are right.. most of what we do in the name of conservation doesn't make perfect sense either

[Elmo]

I'm assuming by making it more difficult to successfully harvest a particular game they can control the amount harvest each year while keeping hunter's content.  Coyotes are not in any threat to be over hunted.

[Doc]

I guess all that is pretty much what I had in my head... but i am specifically refurring to hunter mentality as it pertains to protected species... rats and bugs have no season and are disposed off as deemed necessary to eliminate distruction or invasion of personal property... coyotes are a game animal with specific rules and regs...I realize baiting them is legal... just don't understand why a responsible hunter would think baiting one game animal over not baiting another is acceptable. It's kind of like "as long as they tell me I can do it, I will, even if I don't think it's right or necessary".

And I understand the trapline answer...  but with traps you need to actually lure and get the animal into the trap... now you introduce a weapon that can reach out 100 or more yards... and the baiting issue becomes a questionable practice in my opinion. You are right.. most of what we do in the name of conservation doesn't make perfect sense either

From the comments that I have heard from most hunters here and elsewhere, they really wish that coyotes were not a protected species, and were treated more like rats, woodchucks, and bugs. That kind of attitude removes the fair chase thoughts. So, if we wonder why they apply a different standard to coyotes than they do deer, that attitude probably figures heavily into it.

I have mixed emotions about coyotes, and probably come down more on the side of those who really wish they had not reappeared here in NYS. To me they do represent a form of vermin. I probably would feel the same if all of a sudden wolves or cougars showed up here. So if some hunters want to use extreme methods to hunt them, I have no problem with that. Anyway, from what I read, it sounds like there are no methods that really threaten to eradicate them anyway. So I don't think we really need to be too concerned for their welfare.....lol.

[nyantler]

I guess all that is pretty much what I had in my head... but i am specifically refurring to hunter mentality as it pertains to protected species... rats and bugs have no season and are disposed off as deemed necessary to eliminate distruction or invasion of personal property... coyotes are a game animal with specific rules and regs...I realize baiting them is legal... just don't understand why a responsible hunter would think baiting one game animal over not baiting another is acceptable. It's kind of like "as long as they tell me I can do it, I will, even if I don't think it's right or necessary".

And I understand the trapline answer...  but with traps you need to actually lure and get the animal into the trap... now you introduce a weapon that can reach out 100 or more yards... and the baiting issue becomes a questionable practice in my opinion. You are right.. most of what we do in the name of conservation doesn't make perfect sense either

From the comments that I have heard from most hunters here and elsewhere, they really wish that coyotes were not a protected species, and were treated more like rats, woodchucks, and bugs. That kind of attitude removes the fair chase thoughts. So, if we wonder why they apply a different standard to coyotes than they do deer, that attitude probably figures heavily into it.

I have mixed emotions about coyotes, and probably come down more on the side of those who really wish they had not reappeared here in NYS. To me they do represent a form of vermin. I probably would feel the same if all of a sudden wolves or cougars showed up here. So if some hunters want to use extreme methods to hunt them, I have no problem with that. Anyway, from what I read, it sounds like there are no methods that really threaten to eradicate them anyway. So I don't think we really need to be too concerned for their welfare.....lol.

Although I don't believe coyotes have the impact on deer that most think...I don't have a love or hate for coyotes or even really care how guys hunt them... I was just thinking that if in fact they were over hunted and dropped to very low populations and the DEC decided to restrict the hunting of them... there would be some unhappy campers out there that really enjoy their coyote hunting... but i suppose there will always be unhappy campers no matter what..

[Doc]

if in fact they were over hunted and dropped to very low populations and the DEC decided to restrict the hunting of them... there would be some unhappy campers out there that really enjoy their coyote hunting...

That's probably an unlikely scenario, but I'm sure that you have the DEC's reaction figured out correctly if that ever did happen. I suspect that they see them as a beneficial additional tool of deer population control. They always seem to be super-interested in anything that will hack on the deer numbers. I think the fact that baiting for coyotes is still legal is most likely just an over-sight on the part of the DEC......lol.

But really, I'm not sure that there is much about baiting that will have any real impact on coyote numbers. From what I have read, they have a real population resilience that can handle just about anything that we humans can throw at them.

[nyantler]

Coyotes are far more wiley than whitetails I think and harder to get a look at especially at close range... and I dont think baiting is a big issue when it comes to predators... It just always strikes me funny that guys have diferent ethics for different animals... though that shouldn't really surprise me i suppose

[Doc]

Yeah, there are a lot of different rules and thoughts when it comes to hunting methods of two different species. I'm not sure I would call it differences in ethics, just different methods. For example we do employ the use of traps for coyotes, but not deer, turkeys and some other animals. Does that make trappers unethical? No, different species have different rules and they're not all based on ethical decisions.

Another circumstance that one would think represents a conflict of ethics is the fact that there are those that would hunt coyotes, but would be horrified at the thought of shooting a dog under any circumstances. One canine vs. another. but one looks like our pet and the other doesn't. Is there really any true logic to that? Conflicting ethical decisions? ...... You might say that. I don't happen to think so but it does make you wonder.

I know some dyed-in-the-wool fly fishermen who would never dream of using live bait on trout, but they have no problem using it on carp. I think it's the same idea. One species gets one set of rules, the other gets another set of rules....lol. Doesn't always make sense, but it also doesn't always boil down to opposing sets of ethics either.

How about the fact that you can shoot crows, but not song-birds. That's another one of those deals where one species gets one set of rules and another gets different treatment. Somebody decided that you can use a gun on one but not the other. So is it really surprising that we have settled on a standard that it is alright to use bait on a predator but not on a deer? That seems to fit right into a whole bunch of these same kinds of strange ethical choices.

Interesting discussion.

[Doc]

One more different look at coyote baiting..... Is it possible tobait coyotes without baiting/feeding bears? How does the DEC view that situation, anybody know?

[wdswtr]

Well I look at it this way. I eat deer, coyotes eat deer, therefore coyotes are my competition. Compeition needs to go lol.

[Larry]

I have only tried this once. I killed a deer in the afternoon gutted by my stand took the deer home got my 17 HMR went back to my stand and hunted to 10pm and killed 2 coyotes, Out of my stand.

[Elmo]

.17 HMR on a Coyote? That's some nice shooting!

[Larry]

both shots were about 20 yd's head shots one shot one kill

[Elmo]

The 17HMR is a caliber I've been interested in getting but I just haven't been able to justify it. Been looking to buy a Henry Repeater but my intended use for it (squirrel hunting, plinking) calls for a .22LR instead.

[Larry]

the 17 is good on squirrels as long as you are not eatting them it tares them up

[ejp419]

The 17, in most coyote hunting situations, is to small. I hunt coyotes with calls, baits, and hounds. There's not alot of situations that the 17 would be the caliber of choice besides over bait at 20 yds lol..If you're saving the pelts I found the 204 a nice shooting round. Quite a few guys that hunt with us shoot them. I shoot 'em with my 308. I'm not concerned about the pelts. I wanna make sure they go down in all situations. I might get a 223 tho, but not this year...

[erussell]

The 17, in most coyote hunting situations, is to small. I hunt coyotes with calls, baits, and hounds. There's not alot of situations that the 17 would be the caliber of choice besides over bait at 20 yds lol..If you're saving the pelts I found the 204 a nice shooting round. Quite a few guys that hunt with us shoot them. I shoot 'em with my 308. I'm not concerned about the pelts. I wanna make sure they go down in all situations. I might get a 223 tho, but not this year...

Ive shot a ton of wolves on Cabelas alaskan adventure game with a 17 hmr and they always go down.

Edited September 14, 2011 by erussell

[Jafo]

Just curious, has anyone ever found coyotes eating dead coyotes?