NOT HAPPY AT ALL

[Five Seasons]

Dude, all you have to do is look at the news....riccochets are the ones that get press.

Remember the baby a few years back that got hit by a slug riccochet that went into a house?

How about the trailer that was shot by a riccochet in Wayne County (Arcadia) a few years back, 2009 or so?

An uninterrupted bullet is most often (MOST OFTEN) shot in a safe direction by most sportsmen. It's what happens after it meets an object that becomes uncontrollable - and is the REAL risk on non-hunting people from hunter shootings. Thus, tracing this back to the point of the thread - that's where the real danger lies here. You are discounting the hunter in your thought process.

I hunt small parcels - if the guy is breaking the law, then it's a black and white issue. If not, nothing can be forced and the hunter is hunting by the law.

dude how about not just throwing out random stories and point to an article or study? I think you will find maybe 3 ricochets last year

http://www.dec.ny.go...fetystats11.pdf

Edited November 29, 2012 by Belo

[WNYBuckHunter]

Funny that the ricochet incident from Monroe County last year isnt in the DEC document. It was all over the news, and posted on here.

Wasnt there also an incident where a bus got hit by one last year?

That document is VERY incomplete, and the reason why so many questioned the DEC announcement of the "safest year ever" last year.

[phade]

dude how about not just throwing out random stories and point to an article or study? I think you will find maybe 3 ricochets last year

http://www.dec.ny.go...fetystats11.pdf

Oy....I could assuage you of stories/articles/studies. The point is that riccochets are not controllable, kill just as easy as a straight on shot, and relates to the basis of the OP's fear. You go let your kids play in his front yard while that guy is hunting one acre and less than 500' from the OPs house.

I bet your tune would change.

Again, I hunt small parcels some as small as 3 acres...if the neighbor is not being legal...it's black and white and the fear/concern is warranted.

[Five Seasons]

we're not debating the OPs issue. we're in agreement. My argument all started with the proclamation that shotguns are more dangerous than rifles. I have one spot i hunt that is a 4acre parcel but only do so with a bow eventhough i am 500' from dwellings because i know even in a tree and being a good shot that my neighbors would not be happy and neither would I.

[growalot]

Hahaha...OMG you didn't...

lest you forget...we were all "outsiders'' in this country from the get go and were the "Developers"...Well.... do to grams being a Tuscarora Native American...I'm only 3/4 out sider..

Remember if the" local base" had enough cash flow into your little community then the the big bad developers would not be needed to keep your taxes under some control and your local government intact

They also cater to "outsiders" more than the local base. The outsiders have more money.

[13BVET]

My mother is Iriquois, not that that has anything to do with this conversation. But, then again, I've noticed that you have a cocky answer for eveything. I'm not impressed. If you don't know what you're talking about-which you obviously don't pertaining to down here, then why do you assume that things are done to keep taxes under control?

So, tell me-how do these developers who are building $700,000 homes keep taxes under control? It doesn't. In fact, it raises everyones taxes. Since the need for more services goes up, so does the tax rate-to staggering proportions.

By the way-I don't know where you live, but our "towns" range in populations of anywhere from 25,000, to over 40,000, within miles of each other. Crime rates are through the roof, and murders are becoming commonplace. The city of Poughkeepsie has a staggering crime rate per capita. How many people do you have living in your community?

[arrow nocker]

all this boils down to is common respect.Trying to push inches into the distance rule and ride in the grey areas with ignorance to the neighbors wishes,and being selfish with not thinking of the outcome of a wounded deer,and children or non hunting type woman around.Problem is some people just lack respect all together.They will push the envelope and not care how their neighbors feel.

[13BVET]

Also, these developments have raised the taxes so high, that farms are pretty much non existent in Dutchess County. At one time, there were over 500 farms. Today, there are actually fewer than 50. Nothing wrong with that though, huh? Developers are the hunters worst enemy-plain and simple. Even the DEC admits on their website that development is one of the biggest threats to hunting. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to figure that out. I'm just rambling on in this post!

[erussell]

The bullet with your name on it cannot be changed, its the one with to whom it may concern that worry's me.

[shawnhu]

It doesn't matter if their 500', for that matter. These idiots will still complain. The point is, the world shouldn't have to alter their lives just to appease you. A lot of these clubs are "grandfathered" in, but, because of the excessive development, the taxes have gone through the roof. This has forced some clubs to have to sell some land to keep up with the taxes. The problem here, is that the politicians have their heads so far up the developers a$$e$, that they can't see daylight. They also cater to "outsiders" more than the local base. The outsiders have more money.

Just like outsourcing. We Americans are great at doing that.

[erussell]

This is a Democracy, The people destroy themselves by voting the corrupt and greedy into office and leaving them there. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

[wdswtr]

This is a Democracy, The people destroy themselves by voting the corrupt and greedy into office and leaving them there. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

I blame the others who didnt try to vote them out! I sure tried!

Edited November 30, 2012 by wdswtr

[Elmo]

The bullet with your name on it cannot be changed, its the one with to whom it may concern that worry's me.

Love this quote. I'm stealing it. I'm going to have to use it someday!

[Elmo]

This is a Democracy, The people destroy themselves by voting the corrupt and greedy into office and leaving them there. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

The people don't always vote for the best candidate. They only vote for the most convincing.

It's even worst in 3rd world countries. That is why democracy doesn't always work in the rest of the world but yet, we Americans always try to push it on them. Try and ask the villager from a 3rd world country who can't read or write, barely has a second grade educations, and has no access to television let along, unbias news who he should vote for in the coming election. Yet, in some of these countries, that's 95% of the voter population.

[Elmo]

Not only is developers the biggest threat to hunters, they're the biggest threat to wildlife in general.

[erussell]

I dont know if I would say that. The housing development they put in up the road from my house has more deer in it than the 200 acres of pristine forest I hunt.

Edited November 30, 2012 by erussell

[13BVET]

I dont know if I would say that. The housing development they put in up the road from my house has more deer in it than the 200 acres of pristine forest I hunt.

Which is why it's virtually impossible to control the damned things in certain areas of the state.

Development has had a huge impact on the grouse here, though. It has literally wiped them right out. Their prime habitat sits under mcmansions. You couldn't find a grouse around here if you looked through hells creation. I haven't seen one in over, I believe, 12 years now. That's a damned shame.

[erussell]

Funny how the DEC and Gov is expected to control Fracking but they do nothing about habitat loss and over development. Which in my opinion is worse than fracking as once its developed there is no going back its gone!!

Boy someone should call the police, we got a pretty good thread hijaking going on here.

Edited November 30, 2012 by erussell

[Five Seasons]

I blame the others who didnt try to vote them out! I sure tried!

isn't that the truth? unfortunately with NYC attached to the empire state you can only cast your vote and hope others will eventually follow.

[growalot]

13BVET...you don't need to be impressed with my OP and where you are... or how many ppl are there..... compared to here is irrelevant...as you stated the locals and clubs have all been there for Decades...times when land didn't cost as much...when everyone knew everyone....guys hunted pretty much where ever...remember I said decades..

Where were all the local hunters when land started to first disappear?...when taxes weren't astronomical because of "outsiders" coming in and needing infrastructure? where were the club members when times got tough and land need to be sold? Or farmer "John" was feeling the pinch and started talking about selling land?

You say taxes went up because of development...I won't ask if you attend town /city board meetings...I know I have and the biggest reason they give for working hard.... trying to get developers here...Is to keep taxes down...to put funds in the coffers.... To buy road equipment ...town barns ..insurance...ect..ect...See a 700,000 dollar house...well that adds much more that a 80,000 house to the tax base

Sorry I see we won't see eye to eye on this ever...for the blame lies ...IMO squarely on the hunters back....you can't have one set of priorities ....cars...toys...vacations... just plain ole stuff and little responsibility..ie ownership.....when its convenient

Then cry and blame others when the convenience is no longer there...for the opportunity was...had priorities been different

[13BVET]

13BVET...you don't need to be impressed with my OP and where you are... or how many ppl are there..... compared to here is irrelevant...as you stated the locals and clubs have all been there for Decades...times when land didn't cost as much...when everyone knew everyone....guys hunted pretty much where ever...remember I said decades..

Where were all the local hunters when land started to first disappear?...when taxes weren't astronomical because of "outsiders" coming in and needing infrastructure? where were the club members when times got tough and land need to be sold? Or farmer "John" was feeling the pinch and started talking about selling land?

You say taxes went up because of development...I won't ask if you attend town /city board meetings...I know I have and the biggest reason they give for working hard.... trying to get developers here...Is to keep taxes down...to put funds in the coffers.... To buy road equipment ...town barns ..insurance...ect..ect...See a 700,000 dollar house...well that adds much more that a 80,000 house to the tax base

Sorry I see we won't see eye to eye on this ever...for the blame lies ...IMO squarely on the hunters back....you can't have one set of priorities ....cars...toys...vacations... just plain ole stuff and little responsibility..ie ownership.....when its convenient

Then cry and blame others when the convenience is no longer there...for the opportunity was...had priorities been different

Let's see if I've got this right. More development equals less taxes??? WRONG. Each time a new house is built, the value of the other properties in that neighborhood goes up. While that seems like a great thing, the taxes also go up, because the property values go up.

Also, when these new developments are built, are the services cost free? i.e. maintaining the roads, etc.

The Town Of Fishkill is a prime example of what's wrong with this theory. Supervisor Joan Pagones let Toll Brothers run rampant with development. So, they put in all kinds of condo's, and all kinds of mcmansions. This was supposed to help the towns tax base. Wrong. It literally wiped the towns finances right out. You see, the town had the same brilliant idea. The problem with that idea, was that the costs of maintaing these new roads, etc., ultimately outweighed the revenue taken in. It was, and still is, a disaster. The residents (including my father in law), just got a 53% increase on their taxes. Works really well, huh?

[joe12]

I agree that the politicians have not managed development well in most places. There should be acreage minimums for lots in the more rural areas, and the big developers should have to follow the same sets of rules and zoning restrictions as everyone else. That being said, if you didn't want the land developed, you should have bought the property yourself. You can't blame the people that move into the houses for these issues. I bet a lot of trees were cut down when they built your house at some point too.

[WNYBuckHunter]

we're not debating the OPs issue. we're in agreement. My argument all started with the proclamation that shotguns are more dangerous than rifles. I have one spot i hunt that is a 4acre parcel but only do so with a bow eventhough i am 500' from dwellings because i know even in a tree and being a good shot that my neighbors would not be happy and neither would I.

When did ANYONE ever say shotguns were more dangerous than rifles? You have a reading comprehension problem.

[Five Seasons]

When did ANYONE ever say shotguns were more dangerous than rifles? You have a reading comprehension problem.

i know you have it out for me... but please man

Btw, there have been studies that show a shotgun slug has the potential to go further than a rifle bullet after it strikes something. Not sure why rifles are any more concern than shotguns as long as you are making safe shots (some type of backstop, no skyline shots, safe direction, etc).

[tughillhunter]

i know you have it out for me... but please man

dont see anything about more dangerous.