Arkansas adopts US's most restrictive abortion law

[Carbonelement]

Ants you seem to have a problem with the terms used! I even posted the def so you would learn something, but being that you are so closed minded you refuse to read and except facts. I didnt make up the term fetus so i dont get your beef with me.

As far as a man goes if he is not capable to move on and find a new woman to start a relationship and family with maybe he would not have been a good father anyway.

[growalot]

Posted Today, 02:41 PM

Now let's not sensationalize either process. There are risks with anything, In the US child birth is very safe and the process of an abortion is an out patient procedure. You are starting to sound like the anti firearms people with the exaggerations. Heck in third world countries children are born in the fields. It has happened for tens of thousands of years.

By the way his tone was not sensational as you tried too portray.

I'll let you in on a family experience...My sisters first pregnancy....They were very excited until the 7month and her Dr. had gone on vacation...causing her to see a new Dr. in the office...no heart beat...well this went down hill from there because vacationing Dr. is notified an these two professionals get into an argument...she in the mean time has to continue carrying this deceased child ..that wouldn't spontaneously abort..I can't even put into words her mental state..in the end they had to abort the deceased fetus...devastating and she stopped breathing on the table....Next comes her first birth..and she was in labor 36 hrs and actually died on the table and they revived her

My pregnancies...I puked non stop for 4 months ...ended up being taken by ambulance to Strong Hospital...lost 30pounds...not quiet as bad with the second...First labor I was in 21 hours and forced to push for 3hrs...2 times they nearly rushed me in for surgery. Now being a woman and sitting umpteen hours in gyn. waiting rooms and the Wendy clinic...I can tell you there are many woman out there that have nearly died giving birth...

[jjb4900]

By the way his tone was not sensational as you tried too portray.

I'll let you in on a family experience...My sisters first pregnancy....They were very excited until the 7month and her Dr. had gone on vacation...causing her to see a new Dr. in the office...no heart beat...well this went down hill from there because vacationing Dr. is notified an these two professionals get into an argument...she in the mean time has to continue carrying this deceased child ..that wouldn't spontaneously abort..I can't even put into words her mental state..in the end they had to abort the deceased fetus...devastating and she stopped breathing on the table....Next comes her first birth..and she was in labor 36 hrs and actually died on the table and they revived her

My pregnancies...I puked non stop for 4 months ...ended up being taken by ambulance to Strong Hospital...lost 30pounds...not quiet as bad with the second...First labor I was in 21 hours and forced to push for 3hrs...2 times they nearly rushed me in for surgery. Now being a woman and sitting umpteen hours in gyn. waiting rooms and the Wendy clinic...I can tell you there are many woman out there that have nearly died giving birth...

for any man to have the balls to put themselves in the same emotional or physical boat as the woman who actually has to carry the child and give birth is B.S......not the same emotion or bond formed between the two by any stretch of the imagination.

[ants]

Ants you seem to have a problem with the terms used! I even posted the def so you would learn something, but being that you are so closed minded you refuse to read and except facts. I didnt make up the term fetus so i dont get your beef with me.

As far as a man goes if he is not capable to move on and find a new woman to start a relationship and family with maybe he would not have been a good father anyway.

I have never (and I bet you haven't either) ever known a woman who was pregnant that referred to the child she was carrying as "My Fetus". I think your problem in with men. I don't have a "beef" with you , its your cold thoughts on innocent human life. But thats just me. Don't take it to heart. Im just a man.

[ants]

By the way his tone was not sensational as you tried too portray.

I'll let you in on a family experience...My sisters first pregnancy....They were very excited until the 7month and her Dr. had gone on vacation...causing her to see a new Dr. in the office...no heart beat...well this went down hill from there because vacationing Dr. is notified an these two professionals get into an argument...she in the mean time has to continue carrying this deceased child ..that wouldn't spontaneously abort..I can't even put into words her mental state..in the end they had to abort the deceased fetus...devastating and she stopped breathing on the table....Next comes her first birth..and she was in labor 36 hrs and actually died on the table and they revived her

My pregnancies...I puked non stop for 4 months ...ended up being taken by ambulance to Strong Hospital...lost 30pounds...not quiet as bad with the second...First labor I was in 21 hours and forced to push for 3hrs...2 times they nearly rushed me in for surgery. Now being a woman and sitting umpteen hours in gyn. waiting rooms and the Wendy clinic...I can tell you there are many woman out there that have nearly died giving birth...

If given the chance to do it over again would you choose abortion over you kids?

[jjb4900]

If given the chance to do it over again would you choose abortion over you kids?

good point, no comparison between a wanted and unwanted child...but, that's not to say we should downplay the risks of child birth.... which, by the way, has nothing to do with this topic.

[ants]

"unwanted" = inconvienience IMHO

[growalot]

Ants....... that is a mute question ,... see I planned my children to the point that for the first I told the Dr I was having a girl and she would be born between the 6 and 9th of May...He laughed and said it was impossible....I went into labor on the 7th and delivered on the 8th...which happen to fall on Mothers day that year...for the second I told the Dr it would be a boy and born on my birthday.Once again he laughed ...said the lightening doesn't strike twice....Well in my planning My sister came for a surprise visit from Oregon...she got me one day off my plans...Our son was born the day after my birthday...although I did go into labor and the Dr.s office on my birthday...At that time they told me I had another week before I'd deliver....the next day I called again...they laughed....When I showed up at the office having contractions every three mins....they weren't laughing and rushed me to Strong Hospital...I never made it to the delivery room...Being a planner and knowing what I want and when...We made sure that these two kids would be the only two kids

Now I know what you were really fishing for and have no problem being open in saying that had I been in high school or even college and an unplanned pregnancy would have occurred...hind sight being 20/20 knowing my life as it was then...... yes there would have been an abortion....I can say that knowing that if it hadn't happened I would not have the two wonderful kids I have now...and I wouldn't have heard them both even though 3 years apart say Thank you when they graduated from high school...I can say that knowing in my heart things would have been bad for not only a child but myself...so there's the hindsight you were looking for...I'll make no apologies for that.

[growalot]

I have never (and I bet you haven't either) ever known a woman who was pregnant that referred to the child she was carrying as "My Fetus".

There you go assuming again...after I was born my mother had three more pregnancies...being a Good Catholic and all... one my brother James was born and died one hour later...just long enough to have a birth certificate...the other two both died during birth...they were considered fetuses...they never took and independent breath had no awareness...and the state deemed them neither birthed nor deceased...no certificates of birth and no certificates of death....and no one in the family ever spoke of sisters or brothers...They were fetuses that didn't make it...I can't speak to how badly this effected my parents...but I do know that James was spoken of ...his birth...his dieing even though it lasted an hour....

I know several woman that have had miscarriages..pregnancies they wanted mind you...what you hear is I had a miscarriage...I lost it...rarely have I heard the baby died...unless it was pretty far along in the pregnancy...See even loosing a wanted pregnancy.... words steer clear of describing a self aware person....there are no ceremonies for such thing...no remembrances...It's a thing that happened and ppl try to move on from it...sad as it is and as impossible as it is for the woman....which can be said when it's a unplanned or planned loss

[sits in trees]

Why is it so important for one group or another to tell other people what they should love or how precious something in their life has to be. Shouldn't people who do not realize this already be left to decide whats best for them.

I've heard the term every life is precious, well yea to me every life in my family, and in my circle of friends everylife is precious, and thats fact based on the care our children recieve and family they are surrounded by, it all just happens naturally and thats the way it should be, it never needed to be taught, never really needed the church to tell us it had to be that way.

But im sorry i have a hard time getting all choked up about every baby born every second all around this vast world or even all around this huge country. Their are over 7 billion of us on this ball and this is a new record just broken about a year ago. And we are populating at an unstoppable rate that shows no signs of even slowing any time this next century.

This precious form of life, the human race, should every single baby be born everywhere because as someone stated it might just turn out to be an amazing person one day or an upstanding citizen, or this person might find a cure to cancer or be the next Mike Jordan. I think with the numbers i just mentioned we have pretty much saturated the odds of getting the best of the best out of the human race.

How many more people do we need to make to be certain we dont miss out on the next Michael Jordan.

These are questions we should be asking that are probably as important as to wether a women should or should not have choice, or what the dads role should be in this thing or how it can be put up for adoption anyway.

[sits in trees]

I have to say that im proud to be a NY'er because we can actually have a conversation about this. I have been on other forums where this subject has come up and things turn ugly real fast, I mean people threatening to kill each other and stuff!

[ants]

Why is it so important for one group or another to tell other people what they should love or how precious something in their life has to be. Shouldn't people who do not realize this already be left to decide whats best for them.

I've heard the term every life is precious, well yea to me every life in my family, and in my circle of friends everylife is precious, and thats fact based on the care our children recieve and family they are surrounded by, it all just happens naturally and thats the way it should be, it never needed to be taught, never really needed the church to tell us it had to be that way.

But im sorry i have a hard time getting all choked up about every baby born every second all around this vast world or even all around this huge country. Their are over 7 billion of us on this ball and this is a new record just broken about a year ago. And we are populating at an unstoppable rate that shows no signs of even slowing any time this next century.

This precious form of life, the human race, should every single baby be born everywhere because as someone stated it might just turn out to be an amazing person one day or an upstanding citizen, or this person might find a cure to cancer or be the next Mike Jordan. I think with the numbers i just mentioned we have pretty much saturated the odds of getting the best of the best out of the human race.

How many more people do we need to make to be certain we dont miss out on the next Michael Jordan.

These are questions we should be asking that are probably as important as to wether a women should or should not have choice, or what the dads role should be in this thing or how it can be put up for adoption anyway.

Again...you and I view life differently. You ask"why is it so important for one group to tell another "What" it should love. I consider the "what" a who. And I guess you can't make anyone love an unborn child but I think the child at least has a right to be born. A right to life. You make the case of over population. China has a remedy for that and I hope you don't agree with it but who knows maybe you do. And the case of "well the odds of getting the next Michael Jordan or the next super awesome person are soooo slim". Well sorry sits but thats just some silly sh..t. I don't even know how to respond to that one. "Sorry Ms. Jones our test indicate that your child will just be an average human being." Thank you Dr.... in that caseI'd like an abortion???

You just have a colder, more callus view of life than I do. No changing it. Its who we are.

[jjb4900]

what about the "morning after pill", should that be allowed or once its done its done? does life start at the moment of conception or a couple weeks later?

[ants]

what about the "morning after pill", should that be allowed or once its done its done? does life start at the moment of conception or a couple weeks later?

My opinion is conception

Edited March 9, 2013 by ants

[sits in trees]

Again...you and I view life differently. You ask"why is it so important for one group to tell another "What" it should love. I consider the "what" a who. And I guess you can't make anyone love an unborn child but I think the child at least has a right to be born. A right to life. You make the case of over population. China has a remedy for that and I hope you don't agree with it but who knows maybe you do. And the case of "well the odds of getting the next Michael Jordan or the next super awesome person are soooo slim". Well sorry sits but thats just some silly sh..t. I don't even know how to respond to that one. "Sorry Ms. Jones our test indicate that your child will just be an average human being." Thank you Dr.... in that caseI'd like an abortion???

You just have a colder, more callus view of life than I do. No changing it. Its who we are.

Yea i was saying that with the numbers the human race is reproducing at that the chances of getting that next super awesome person are better than ever. As far as China is concerned, i have to admit i am pretty happy that they did impose the one child per couple limit.

Someone also mentioned (might have been you) that every child needs to be born and have the right to life until it wants to harm you then its OK for me to terminate that right to life? So to me that sounds like, yea you have the right to life but if say your a Muslim extremist who wants to terminate your life than its just fine and dandy to kill him.

Kinda a very fuzzy line on how precious life really is, the Muslim thinks yours is worthless (because of religious reasons no doubt) and you think his is worthless if you cant convert him to your way of thinking.

thats why the more and more i've looked at this whole thing and not being able to really figure who should be the deciding factor I just keep going back to the mother as the ultimate choice maker, and that choice has to be up to her and only her, not your choice, or your churches or definitely not the choice of some dirtbag politician whos probably screwing this country anyway and doing whatever he has to to get relected.

Wow, imagine China without birth restrictions, our problems would be ten fold what they are now, and lets not forget all that precious life crossing our southern borders too...

[jjb4900]

Yea i was saying that with the numbers the human race is reproducing at that the chances of getting that next super awesome person are better than ever. As far as China is concerned, i have to admit i am pretty happy that they did impose the one child per couple limit.

Someone also mentioned (might have been you) that every child needs to be born and have the right to life until it wants to harm you then its OK for me to terminate that right to life? So to me that sounds like, yea you have the right to life but if say your a Muslim extremist who wants to terminate your life than its just fine and dandy to kill him.

Kinda a very fuzzy line on how precious life really is, the Muslim thinks yours is worthless (because of religious reasons no doubt) and you think his is worthless if you cant convert him to your way of thinking.

thats why the more and more i've looked at this whole thing and not being able to really figure who should be the deciding factor I just keep going back to the mother as the ultimate choice maker, and that choice has to be up to her and only her, not your choice, or your churches or definitely not the choice of some dirtbag politician whos probably screwing this country anyway and doing whatever he has to to get relected.

Wow, imagine China without birth restrictions, our problems would be ten fold what they are now, and lets not forget all that precious life crossing our southern borders too...

I have to agree on the out of control reproduction rate......I wonder how many people have had the pleasure of dealing with the citizens who give birth at an alarming rate simply because they don't give a sh*t, and why should they? the tax payer's will pay to raise them. Then their children turn around and continue the cycle. I hate to say it, but they should have a system where they offer cash vouchers at the abortion clinic to encourage alot of these people.........the only thing worse than an abortion is a child who is unloved, abused and unwanted and dragged through the system his/her entire life.

[ants]

Wow, imagine China without birth restrictions, our problems would be ten fold what they are now, and lets not forget all that precious life crossing our southern borders too...

"Birth restriction" = forced abortion. Got it. How are you on late term abortion. You know were as long as the toe of the "fetus" is still inside the mother the doctor can scramble its brains with a pair of scissors but if the "fetus" is all the way out of the mother, and the doctor does the same thing then thats murder.

Lance that boil sits.

[apoallo]

it is a personal choice of the person(s) in that situation. I am not against nor for it

[Carbonelement]

IMO a woman should be able to get an abortion at ANY point during the pregnancy. Period, why bring an unwanted child into the world?!?!?!?

[Carbonelement]

what about the precious life crossing our borders...lets here what you have to say

[apoallo]

everyone is def allowed to have their opinions on this topic whether for or against however. you calim you support Freedom in america but then turnaround and say someone doesnt have the right to abort.... its like saying. You as an American have the right to own and operate firearms but Then should be banned because they are dangerous. Someone on another page on this topic wrote too bad your daughter had sex and got pregnant she shouldt have had sex. #1 so does that mean we should ban sex? #2 what if a women was raped and got pregnant from the attacker.. now not only does she have to live with the fact that this happened to her but she also will have a daily reminder(a child) of the event that happened to her. Then the child goes unloved and resented through life and becomes one of these crazy nut job school shooters..... its a personal choice

[growalot]

Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Grows throws some very good points about the contradictions that political and religious partys stand by on this thing. Me, well i just feel that getting between a women and her reproductive parts is off limits for politicians and church and maybe just men in general.

With this new law they did make a 12 week your choice and after that "no choice".. that alone is a big compromise for a state like Arkansas, Im sure there are many down there that would like to ban choice all together.

I have to admit that i dont care for the late term process where the baby comes out looking too much like a baby, but again, thats not for me to decide or try to forbid.

He answered that one page on I believe...Again you are either not reading all that is wrote or just ignoring it...

(sp)

Edited March 9, 2013 by growalot

[sits in trees]

Wow, imagine China without birth restrictions, our problems would be ten fold what they are now, and lets not forget all that precious life crossing our southern borders too...

"Birth restriction" = forced abortion. Got it. How are you on late term abortion. You know were as long as the toe of the "fetus" is still inside the mother the doctor can scramble its brains with a pair of scissors but if the "fetus" is all the way out of the mother, and the doctor does the same thing then thats murder.

Lance that boil sits.

What would you have preferred China do about their over population problem? And as far as late term, I dont like it and wouldnt totally disagree with something along the lines of what Arkansas did. But with right to lifers its usually all or nothing and agreeing to anything inbetween will usually get you called cold and callus.

Whats your opinion on abortion Doctors, if the ultrasound revealed a child was going to be an abortion doctor when it grew up would you have that baby terminated? I mean you have thrown out some pretty good hypotheticals, heres a few for you.

[5.9cummins]

It amazes me how little value so many of you place on human life. Life begins at conception. If you don't want a kid abstain.

Cutting a child limb from limb and sucking them out a tube so you don't have a inconvenience is not something i am willing to negotiate on.

Try asking a abortion survivor (yes there are children who survive the procedure) how they feel about the subject.

Edited March 9, 2013 by 5.9cummins

[New York Hillbilly]

Thats an easy one Carbonelement, by applying your logic. To me it's the same as late term abortions. Get rid of all border patrol officers and replace them with "doctors", who then intercept those "precious" lives "crossing our borders", at which point the doctor shoves scissors into their brain, which then gets scrambled and kills them. Then you just toss them into a dumpster. What people, crossing what border? What difference does it make if the border is between our country and another, or located in some medical or surgical office? With this line of thinking, they are all just fetuses.

Does the scenario sound as crazy and ridiculous to you as it does to me?

In my very personal experience, parents of children who have struggled to survive at the time of birth, cry, pray and beg doctors and nurses to save their baby, not save their fetus. In preparation for the big day the list of things to do include what? Baby (not fetus) showers, fix up the baby's(not fetus) room, buy baby clothing, baby toys, and baby diapers.......again....not fetus.

When it comes to late term abortions, it seems to me the difference between being called a baby or fetus really depends on whether you're wanted or not.

I'm more in line with you Ants, for better or worse. And from here on, I have to stop reading this stuff on this site. I need to remind myself I come here to enjoy sharing hunting stories and topics, and as a diversion from the sad $#!T in the world, and to not even peek at threads like this. In other words, the little time I spend here is to enjoy life, not to argue about when it begins, or who has the right to end it.

No hatred or hard feelings from me to anyone here. It's sunny outside, spring is finally in the air, and I'm going to go celebrate life. I hope you all do the same.

Peace

Edited March 9, 2013 by New York Hillbilly