Here's a fight starter

[crappyice]

Just for fun...I think AR's should only be enforced for crossbow hunters during the youth season, 30 minutes before legal sunlight near a salt lick.

Is this really 13 pages DURING THE F'ing SEASON.....Go shoot something!

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

I admit it 3 on one side seems like a double standard. i see it just as a line on what i do and don't harvest based on what others may in fact pass up as well. example: i shot a 1.5 yr old that fit my 3 on one side rule. it was my first bow deer. i know anyone else who hunts that property would have promptly filled their tag with him. I have gone years wothout getting a buck. i was talking to a guy has trail cams and he said that the 8pt i got was the only 1.5 yr old with 3 on one side out of many scrub bucks. twin threes, spikes, and a handfull of 4's. and actually the only 8pt at all. so there are 6 or more other bucks that would have gotten a pass from me anyway. 1 out of 6 bucks if i had seen i would have let walk as a first bow buck. i figured why not take the 8pt, i'm sure he wouldn't have been passed up.  if it was rifle or i was a more experienced bow hunter OR i was in an area where i know others would have let him go, then yes i would have given him a pass. a 1.5 is 110-120#s and i've shot 2.5 at 150. one more year you get a bigger deer with more meat. i would much rather take 2.5s and 3.5's. if the first two years of AR's would be slow so be it, the next 50 years would make up for it.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

So let me play the advocate... how does killing 60,000 1.5 year olds help the herd? Don't tell me keeps the herd density in check.. that gets done with does.

It does not make the surviving deer less healthy though, does it?

Which deer do most of the breeding? Young or old?

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Teenagers doing all the breeding is bad for the heard health, but you guys want to protect yearling bucks?

[bluecoupe]

No matter where the discussion varies, it always comes back to simply making it easier to getting larger racks. Period.   People try and disguise that goal all day and night, but that's still where it ends up. 

[WesternNY]

It does not make the surviving deer less healthy though, does it?

Which deer do most of the breeding? Young or old?

 

Studies actually have shown bucks of all ages breed, but a lot are bred by younger bucks.

 

Twins and triplets often have different fathers.

 

One could argue that the remaining bucks are put under more stress from having to breed.  A doe will re-enter estrus if she didn't conceive the first time around.... but I wouldn't play this argument.... just saying.

[WesternNY]

No matter where the discussion varies, it always comes back to simply making it easier to getting larger racks. Period.   People try and disguise that goal all day and night, but that's still where it ends up. 

 

 

Did anyone in this thread say it wasn't for better racks???  Perhaps...

 

What is wrong by someone wanting to harvest a slightly older deer? 

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

in many cases but not all. i know a guy who got a 165# mutant scrub rack about the size of a spike.i would shoot him over a 150 lb. 8 pt. don't lump everyone into that category.

 

[pryz366]

U know since dec says its a social issue. Hmmmmm social services has welfare. Hmmmmm maybe antler restrictions are a hunters welfare for a bigger rack. Jk lol

Edited October 31, 2013 by pryz366

[SteveB]

So let me play the advocate... how does killing 60,000  1.5 year olds help the herd?  Don't tell me keeps the herd density in check.. that gets done with does.

 

How does killing 20,000 1.5 and 40,000 2.5 help?

Or 60,000 2.5?

How does hunters killing bucks at all "help" the herd?

 

Guess I don't get the question.

[bluecoupe]

Did anyone in this thread say it wasn't for better racks???  Perhaps...

 

What is wrong by someone wanting to harvest a slightly older deer? 

 

Not a thing.  What's wrong with someone who's just as ok with a spike, fork or whatever?

[WesternNY]

How does killing 20,000 1.5 and 40,000 2.5 help?

Or 60,000 2.5?

How does hunters killing bucks at all "help" the herd?

 

Guess I don't get the question.

 

Exactly it doesn't.

[burmjohn]

No matter where the discussion varies, it always comes back to simply making it easier to getting larger racks. Period.   People try and disguise that goal all day and night, but that's still where it ends up. 

 

Wrong, thats like me calling all of those that oppose it Brown and Downers, but its not the truth and I know better. 

[WesternNY]

Not a thing.  What's wrong with someone who's just as ok with a spike, fork or whatever?

 

 

I have stated before and again and again I believe in the hunters choice.  I asked you because you over and over in multiple threads giving guys grief and shame because they want a bigger deer.  Mutual respect.  Not many have that these days.

 

If you want to shoot a 1.5 year old great, I will be the first one to give you congrats.  For myself personally I don't see why a seasoned, experienced hunter would want to..  that's all.

[burmjohn]

Not a thing.  What's wrong with someone who's just as ok with a spike, fork or whatever?

 

I guess they will have to settle for a deer with some more meat on it.  Seems like 3H, where I hunt, is doing just fine, harvesting the same exact amount of bucks per square mile before AR's were in place.  But instead of them being 60+% 1.5's they are spread across the spectrum of all age groups.

[bluecoupe]

I have stated before and again and again I believe in the hunters choice.  I asked you because you over and over in multiple threads giving guys grief and shame because they want a bigger deer.  Mutual respect.  Not many have that these days.

 

If you want to shoot a 1.5 year old great, I will be the first one to give you congrats.  For myself personally I don't see why a seasoned, experienced hunter would want to..  that's all.

 

I don't believe I've given anyone grief for wanting to shoot a big deer.  I give grief because they want to take my choice of shooting a spike or fork away from me so it can be easier for them to shoot a bigger deer.   There are big deer out there now. They're shot every year. People may have to put more effort into getting them but that's the price of them.

I just think it should be choice.  You don't wanna shoot a spike? By all means, don't. But don't legislate that I can't.  The deer herd is not in any jeopardy and even if it is, bucks are not how you control the herd.

OH, and I believe the only threads I have voiced that opinion in are the threads where that's the subject matter so I don't know what to tell you if you have an issue with that.

 

[Geno C]

Glad I'm having a few drinks with dinner while you guys are still discussing this...

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

I personally think it is fine for people to harvest spikes and forks if it suits them. but it cuts down on the chances for a everyone, including people who get spikes and forks, to get a older or heavier deer. I personally don't know anyone that wouldn't mind get a bigger deer.

[Doewhacker]

How about we start a buck permit system to better manage the herd? Then get rid of AR's and concentrate on managing the herd for real.

[WesternNY]

I guess they will have to settle for a deer with some more meat on it.  Seems like 3H is doing fine, harvesting the same exact amount of bucks per square mile before AR's were in place. 

 

and that is why I got sucked into this thread, because a bunch of guys are in panic mode because of a potential 3pt rule.  It isn't going to change a thing except perhaps make your hunting better.

 

Stop the panic.   If  you are in a panic because you don't want to be mandated say it but don't say it is going to ruin your hunts and then bash guys who go for a slightly older buck.

 

The sky is not falling.     

[bluecoupe]

I guess they will have to settle for a deer with some more meat on it.  Seems like 3H is doing fine, harvesting the same exact amount of bucks per square mile before AR's were in place.  But instead of them being 60+% 1.5's they are spread across the spectrum of all age groups.

 

 

I give up. The same things are simply being stated over and over and over. There will be no agreement as no one will switch positions. We'll all just have to deal with what the DEC comes up with.

 

[burmjohn]

How about we start a buck permit system to better manage the herd? Then get rid of AR's and concentrate on managing the herd for real.

 

Right... That will pass right through with flying colors, especially from those that oppose AR's. 

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Glad I'm having a few drinks with dinner while you guys are still discussing this... lo:P

I actually had popcorn and just finished an ice pop. I never eat popcorn.

[Doewhacker]

If you want to shoot a 1.5 year old great, I will be the first one to give you congrats. For myself personally I don't see why a seasoned, experienced hunter would want to.. that's all.

Would you give a backhanded remark like that with your compliment?

I will never understand why a seasoned hunter will be fine shooting a spike but then decide other new hunters shouldn't be allowed the same choice. I know you are for hunters choice.

[Doewhacker]

Right... That will pass right through with flying colors, especially from those that oppose AR's.

No I doubt guys that are against AR really care if they get a buck, I know I don't.