Costs of putting in a larger plot.

[agross]

Was considering adding a larger plot to our property in Chenango County.  Property is 99% woods except for two small clover food plots.   

 

The though was to open up an area about 1 to 2 acres in size to make a larger food plot and maybe get something planted with a little more drawing power like corn or soybeans.  The clover works good but it seems that the deer hit the plots casually if they pass through.  Some days on camera there are 4 or 5 deer in the plot and then it may go up to a week without any action.

 

The question is does any one know what it would cost to have a crew come in a clear 2 acres?  I could do some of the work cutting down some trees and leave only the stumps for someone to dig out to cut costs if need be.  Anyone with any experience?

 

Thanks.

[growalot]

It depends on the number of trees and how big they are....personally I'd start small and work my way up to an acre or two......You have to consider the cost of an operator and then the cost of hauling his equipment to the site.....I could think of a lot of other ways to spend that kind of $$$...then you need to figure in the cost of fertalizer and LIME ....Whos going to maintain the corn and or soybeans? di you want them to plant the fields?...they not only need planting but weed control...then chopping and discing in the next spring...There's a lot to consider....

[Pav2704]

What about getting a logging company to come in to take the trees down?  They take trees and you get paid. 

[cdmckane]

We worked up to our current size plots.  Every spring, my dad cuts the firewood he'll need for the upcoming winter from the edges of our plot, then we'll dig out the stumps and smooth out the ground and get it ready for planting. We probably gain 1/4 to 1/2 acre every year.  We started doing everything with our quads but since they've gotten bigger,  I have a farmer buddy who plants our plots, around 5 acres each right now.  We switch it up every year, but one gets planted with corn for his cows, and the other gets clover, chicory and turnips.  All I buy is the seeds for the food plot.  He does all the "farming" in exchange for the use of the other plot.

[Zag]

For us it was just the cost of gas. It took some time to accomplish. Biggest cost is simply time. It goes fast droppin tree's then u look around and it looks like a bomb went off. We also had a tractor with a backhoe to dig out most of the stumps. Cost in my opinion is pretty cheap/rewards.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is TSI. We did that about 5yrs ago, got paid improving our land, so really I look at the food plot as free. I will say our property has had a significant jump in deer activity since. Well worth it!!

[rotorooter23]

Be careful when you clear an acre of land. You will need a SPDES permit from the DEC as it is to control stormwater runoff.

[apotvin693]

not always the size of the plot but what is planted in it. give the deer something diferent and tastey to dine on.  working your way up in size is also a good idea.  

[cdmckane]

 

New York State law requires a permit for the following activities:

• Constructing or using an outlet or discharge pipe (referred to as a "point source") that discharges wastewater into the surface waters or ground waters of the state
• Constructing or operating a disposal system such as a sewage treatment plant

 From DEC website.  Clearing of land for farming doesn't qualify under either of these activities. 

[Fantail]

We worked up to our current size plots.  Every spring, my dad cuts the firewood he'll need for the upcoming winter from the edges of our plot, then we'll dig out the stumps and smooth out the ground and get it ready for planting. We probably gain 1/4 to 1/2 acre every year.  ..

Wondering if you girdled the larger trees? I was thinking of using a chain and the bucket/loader to lift out very small trees. What method did you use to remove stumps?

[Zag]

Wondering if you girdled the larger trees? I was thinking of using a chain and the bucket/loader to lift out very small trees. What method did you use to remove stumps?

Faintail, we used a 4100 jd. Some off the stumps were tough, but found it easier to dig up the roots around the stump first then work up the stump.

[cdmckane]

That's about it.  We left a couple feet at the stump to wrap a chain around after digging up the roots with the back hoe.  Then we cut the rest of the stump down for firewood and the roots went to the bonfire

[rotorooter23]

 From DEC website.  Clearing of land for farming doesn't qualify under either of these activities. 

 

You may want to just double check that. Any disturbance over one acre including soil part of the UPA law. I worked in the Division of Environmental Permits for 2 years and we constantly had a problem with this. There is a grey area that the division of forestry regulates.

[agross]

Thanks for the responses.  We did have a forester come through and look at the property this summer.  He suggested timbering 1/3 of property at a time with 10 year ( I think) intervals to get more growth from the tress. 

 

I will look into that and then have one area cleared of all the trees for the plot area. 

 

We already have two small 1/4 acre mini plots with clover in them but they just do not have the drawing power I would like.  I planted a dozen pear trees, half a dozen crab apples and apple trees this year but that will take several years to get done.  Where my property is located we have 30 acres surrounded by 80 across the street, nobody hunts, 120 on one side, nobody really hunts and 100 acres on the other side light  gun and bow pressure (maybe 3 guys hunting tops.)  No access for any of these properties for me.  That is why I am trying the grocery store route.

 

I will let you know how it goes.    

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How much property do you actually have? There are other options that are low cost that will provide an equal nutritional benefit to the deer and will provide better cover

[thphm]

Do a little at a time If you have a tractor, You can also rent a tractor ( I would rent a small dozer )  one with a winch. I did mine with my small JD and a bucket ( wish I bought it with a back hoew ) pushed the smaller ( up to 5" dia.) trees over and poped the root balls out. the larger ones I cut and left a 4' stump, Went around the trunk and cut most of the roots then attached a cable to the trunk and pulled it out or over.It's not just a weekend job. If you could afford it I would just have someone come in and do it.

[growalot]

You never mentioned what's growing on those surrounding parcels....all those mast trees are. great but what you want is a place they can hang in year round...deer don't like harsh weather....pine....bramble  patches...fruiting bushes..do you have water?

[gastrodoc]

Definately not a weekend job. Much more efficient if you can have the logging crew clear or hire a local heavy equiptment operator if you can agree on a fair price. My friend had a total of (5) 1/4 to 1/2acre polots cleared by a local forester who used a Cat D5 and an excavator. It took them 3 days to put in the plots and they plowed, limed, and planted them also. It would have taken us years to do this job on the weekends and it is also dangerous work. I believe he paid 4 thousand for everything. They were put in in May and we are hunting over them currently

[agross]

Elite:  No food on the other properties.  The 120 and 100 acre pieces have fields that are hayed and are larger in size 20 to 40 acres.  The rest of the properties are all wooded.  Not sure about the make up of the types of trees on the other properties.  And yes there is water on the property.  There is an old spring that someone many years ago framed out with huge rectangular slabs of slate that holds water and this spring water runs 365 days per year, comes right up out of side of hill.  There  is also another area that always holds water, from September through June through the collection of rain water and snow. 

 

On my 30 acres we have a great population of white oak, some 4 and 5 feet across, red oak and stone oak (which I never knew existed until the forester came in).  We have areas of briars, which I am attempting to have grow thicker, a lot of beech but not much in the way of good cover.  They are many many small beach trees and some areas are thick that you cannot see 50 yards but not great bedding areas with pines for thermal cover.   

 

The neighbors 120 has a thick area of pines below my property which I believe most of the bedding is done. 

 

That is why I was considering logging part of the property and having all the tops left behind.  In the corners of the property and certain areas that we normally do not go to except for hunting I want to get nice and  thick to have deer possibly bed on our property or feel safer traveling through during daylight. 

 

The overall layout of the property is good.  Its a 400 yard x 400 yard square with the house near the road.  In the fall the wind, 99% of the time, blows from the back of the property straight toward the house so you can walk out  to the stand with the wind in your face without smelling up the entire woods.   

 

I believe that the deer at dusk make their way from wherever they are bedded to the larger fields for the night as you always see them there.  Then at dawn they work their way to bed and this is where we try to ambush them on trails.  My thoughts we that if I had more food, a larger plot with a fall planting, brassicas, etc, then there would be more attraction for the deer to cut through our property to eat before going to bed.  My idea was to also create some more structure to create funnels or bottle necks around the new fields as right now the property is simply a square block of woods.

 

As to taking the trees out myself the are that I was thinking of has some huge 3 foot across hard and soft maple as well as some 3 foot across beech.  That would take forever to get done.   

 

[thphm]

You never mentioned what's growing on those surrounding parcels....all those mast trees are. great but what you want is a place they can hang in year round...deer don't like harsh weather....pine....bramble  patches...fruiting bushes..do you have water?

 

X2,I left an area of young trees that are pretty close together and they go in there during the summer,I planted an area of spryce the last 2 years.Today I pulled out a bunch of 1" to 3" dia. young trees and I am going to plant some white pines to replace them,also planted some fruiting bushes 3 years ago and the were munching on them this year.

[ididnotvoteforobama]

This spring, I'm going all in on some plots. I have 175 acres and plan at least 3 plots 2-3 acres in size. I have a backhoe,  small dozer , tractor and skidding winch . My plan to remove the trees and stumps is to cut the roots on the back side with the backhoe then push them over with th backhoe . Stumps and all will come out with the trees as they are pushed over. Much safer and more  efficient , using the tree weight to pull the stumps as the tree falls. Then cutting off the stumps and pulling out the trees with the skidding winch. Clean up with the dozer and filling in the holes. Heavy lime after the soil test then planting around  mid June is the plan.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Have any of you entertained other options for food source other than plots? 

 

 This past year we went on an education event and one segment of it focused on property management for whitetail habitat.

What I found interesting is what they have gone to instead of putting more food plots in. THey take irregular shaped areas and take every marketable log off it. Then have the skidders and dozers push over the remaining trees. this allows the uprooted trees to live since they still have roots in the ground. This puts the forage that normally 30-50' up at a level on the ground. This also totally opens the canopy and allows the briars and other natural plants to grow. It is a thick nasty tangled mess. But the deer love it and use it as a sanctuary. they don't hunt these areas. just the edges. They have found that by doing this they are putting equal nutrition ,including protein into the deers' diet as if they planted plots. At a cheaper cost and it lasts years. They use irregular shapes. NOT SQUARES. they do this for their plots also becasue of the deers tendency to walk to view around a corner checking for danger. This makes them cover more ground while feeding and increasing the chances of bringing them by your stand.

[Pav2704]

Have any of you entertained other options for food source other than plots? 

 

 This past year we went on an education event and one segment of it focused on property management for whitetail habitat.

What I found interesting is what they have gone to instead of putting more food plots in. THey take irregular shaped areas and take every marketable log off it. Then have the skidders and dozers push over the remaining trees. this allows the uprooted trees to live since they still have roots in the ground. This puts the forage that normally 30-50' up at a level on the ground. This also totally opens the canopy and allows the briars and other natural plants to grow. It is a thick nasty tangled mess. But the deer love it and use it as a sanctuary. they don't hunt these areas. just the edges. They have found that by doing this they are putting equal nutrition ,including protein into the deers' diet as if they planted plots. At a cheaper cost and it lasts years. They use irregular shapes. NOT SQUARES. they do this for their plots also becasue of the deers tendency to walk to view around a corner checking for danger. This makes them cover more ground while feeding and increasing the chances of bringing them by your stand.

That's really interesting.  Did they say how long a tree could live for if it's pushed over onto its side?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

they didn't but I  on the property we lease there are blow downs that have been in leaves for the 6 years we have been there. the trees actually sprouted new limbs and they are growing vertical off the horizontal trunk.

[Pav2704]

Definitely interesting...  bedding and food together.  Plus no costs year to year which is a huge bonus.  My wife would cringe if she knew the exact amount I spend yearly on lime, fert., and seed!!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am sure plots in conjunction with this approach would be a great adition but if I was starting with a mature wood lot to start I think I would take this approach first. If there are marketable logs on it it could fund some nice plots as well.