So Many Contradictions

[airedale]

Reading some of the after the shot episodes on hunts both firearm and bow leaves one scratching their head after what appear to be good shots with adequate weapons and yet still tough recoveries or even losses. Nothing is set in stone and Deer are one tough, tough animal.

I have used a wide variety of firearms and while most Deer are found within a very short distance from where the initial hit took place there are those conundrums that seem to defy everything.

I have killed Deer with muzzleloaders, 12 and 20 ga slugs, a bow, 222 Rem, 220 Swift, 250 Sav, 243, 25-06, 280 Rem, 338 Win mag, 45-70, 44mag and 357 mag in both handguns and rifle.

I would say 90% were hit similarly in the heart lung area within a few inch circle of each other yet some Deer will drop in their tracks, some run a short death sprint and go down, yet some went over 100 yards and beyond!  The only certain drop where they stand episodes I ever had were neck shots.

The weirdest shot I ever saw was on a Caribou, my guide and myself came up on a lone Bull grazing at about 80 yards, he was broadside and I let him have one right behind his front shoulder, I thought I missed as he put his head down and continued eating. I was going to let another one fly but the guide grabbed my arm and told me not to shoot, about the time the bull became jelly legged and keeled over dead.

Again it seems nothing is set in stone no matter what kind of weapon is being used.

Al

Edited November 14, 2022 by airedale

[50calpeephole]

I've wondered this myself and I think there's a certain "status" of an animal we can't exactly predict.  

   

Things like- has their fight or flight response been tripped? Are they oxygenated and primed for flight? If so I think they're going to go a lot farther than if they were carelessly grazing in a field for a good 20 minutes.  

   

I too have seen some large discrepancies, my first deer ran about 120 yards before keeling over, however when gutted there was a literal coagulated bloodcicle coming out of both sides of its heart- I'd used a 30-06 hollow point for the shot, so it wasn't a power issue, it just had the strength or stamina to bolt.

[suburbanfarmer]

Many yrs ago, I saw a youtube video where the hunter shot a buck in rut 3-4 times , all vital hits and that buck still kept going.

So yeh nothing is set in stone.

[wolc123]

One theory I have heard, regarding DRT or not from a heart/lung hit, is that the primary dependence is on the exact instant when the bullet strikes.  That is more important than bullet type, size, speed, etc.  Not more important for killing the animal, just wether or not it is “dead right there”.  

If the bullet arrived on the compression stroke of the heart, then the cardiovascular system can’t handle the “overpressure”, and the lights go out immediately, as the brain is short-circuited by all the popping blood vessels.  
 

Since the compression stroke of the heart is not as long as the relaxed portion, the DRT kills are not as frequent.  That said, I only shot two whitetail bucks with my 30/06 and both were drt.  That means the next 8 or so will probably run off a ways.  My only drt shotgun slug kills were shoulder blade hits.  I can’t ever remember having one of those drop on the spot from a heart/lung hit. 

[TACC]

The only certain DRT hit is a central nervous system (CNS) hit.

Neck or spine, blow either one of those out and its over.

I dont chase shot deer, they crumble up in a heap.

I only shoot neck shots or I dont shoot.

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[wolc123]

I used to employ a fair number of neck shots, but only when a finisher was called for.  That was before I developed such an appreciation for neck roasts.  Now, I’ll probably use head shots as finishers for does, andd D maybe a shoulder blade for bucks. It seems ludicrous to me to target such a small vital area as the neck with an initial shot.  

Most of the time, I try for the center lung area, because that shot location provides the greatest margin for error.   If tracking conditions are very poor, or if a second kill is possible, then I will aim for the shoulder blade.  

[Buckmaster7600]

Of all the deer I’ve killed with a gun I only remember 5 that were bang flops from shots in the vitals and not CNS. 2 we’re with a 270 and 3 we’re with a 223. The only common denominator is they’re both over 3,000fpsMV. I’ve said for a long time although I don’t/haven’t hunted with either of those cartridges in a long time that there could be something to that 3,000fps threshold.


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[Just Lucky]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Of all the deer I’ve killed with a gun I only remember 5 that were bang flops from shots in the vitals and not CNS. 2 we’re with a 270 and 3 we’re with a 223. The only common denominator is they’re both over 3,000fpsMV. I’ve said for a long time although I don’t/haven’t hunted with either of those cartridges in a long time that there could be something to that 3,000fps threshold.


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Welcome back

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Of all the deer I’ve killed with a gun I only remember 5 that were bang flops from shots in the vitals and not CNS. 2 we’re with a 270 and 3 we’re with a 223. The only common denominator is they’re both over 3,000fpsMV. I’ve said for a long time although I don’t/haven’t hunted with either of those cartridges in a long time that there could be something to that 3,000fps threshold.


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I’m thinking it’s a combination of bullet speed and arrival time.  All three (including a mule deer) that I shot with my 30/06 were drt, but two of those bullets also struck CNS (neck on exit on the Texas’s heart shot one and shoulder blade on entry on the broadside mule deer).  
 

The third was struck diagonally, thru the lungs, no bullet exit, but did strike a rib near center on entry.  That was a Federal classic 150 gr from approx 250 yard range.  There was not a visible bucket mark on that buck, nor a spot of blood on the snow, when I found him right where he had stood at the shot.  

Im thinking that bullet was under 3000 fps when it hit, but probably not by much.  
 

I can’t remember another deer, of the close to a hundred that I killed with shotgun slugs of all types (sabots, fosters) and my 50 cal ML, that was DRT without a CNS strike.