DMP'S

[PREDATE]

Yes it means NYS residents.

I don't think you'll qualify with 30 acres.

It's pretty cut and dry. Since preference points are won and lost on your first choice and there are none given for second choice, all you can really do is try for a 4o as your first pick. Then try for another wmu and possibly trade or even jump on some public land to bag a doe.

Hmm. I hunt in 4o a little bit. Care to barter? Say permission to hunt/trap coyotes on your land this winter for a 4o tag this fall?

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[jrm]

sending a PM

[PREDATE]

I don't think it'll take you four years to get one. If they don't get enough applicants to meet the required quota, then you may get a dmp with just 1 point. I've never applied for a 4o dmp, but I can honestly say I've never accumulated more than 1 preference point since the "lottery" system has been in place.

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[jrm]

I don't think it'll take you four years to get one. If they don't get enough applicants to meet the required quota, then you may get a dmp with just 1 point. I've never applied for a 4o dmp, but I can honestly say I've never accumulated more than 1 preference point since the "lottery" system has been in place.

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Very possibly. I am only guessing 3 are needed based on the "odds" page. They give a guide for "high" "medium" "low" etc. It certainly gives the impression that "PP Req" would be among the most difficult places to get a DMP. They only state it may require 1, 2 or 3 points to be selected. 

 

I don't like lotteries to begin with (the $$$ lottery is just a tax on people who are bad at math). Buying a guaranteed loser this year just to have a chance at buying a winner next year (or the year after) is counterintuitive for me.

Edited August 8, 2014 by jrm

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Maybe some of you more experienced folks can help me out with the DMP thing. Not sure I completely understand how it works. 

 

I looked at the DEC website. I am only interested in 4O. The "probability page" states a 30% probability. Then it states PP required for "residents" and "none" for 2nd DMP.

 

In this context, does "resident" mean NYS resident?

 

Then, on the DMP page it talks about landowners. In one place it mentions "qualifying" landowners, which I take to mean 50 acres (as described on that page.) I have about 30 acres which is where I hunt. Further down, it just states "landowners" without mentioning "qualifying."

 

 

So I am a landowner in 4O, but don't have 50 contiguous acres. Does that count for anything?

 

If not, it seems I need preference points. The only way to get them is to place a losing bet on a 4O DMP, correct?

 

The way I understand it, I will have to keep purchasing a DMP lottery ticket for $10 each year, with at least the first year being a guaranteed loser (no pp accumulated). After I buy enough preference points with those losing tickets, I can keep buying with a 30% chance of winning the lottery.

 

Is that correct or am I not understanding the process correctly?

 

 

 

***

edited to add:

 

I found another publication which seems to clarity that all the uses of "landowner" refers to the 50 contiguous acres. It would be nice if the website was more consistent with terminology, but I guess I expect too much.

 

So as far as I can see, a resident in 4O basically has a "chance" of getting a DMP once every four years. Three years of paying for the application which will accumulate 3 preference points. In the fourth year, you theoretically have good odds of winning a DMP, which spends all the PP. The next year you start over from zero and spend another three years buying points.

 

Is this how it works?

Sad place where a land owner that pays taxes on his property year in and year out and cant get a tag to take a deer, Regardless of land size. I can see giving very few doe tags out to an area if the deer #'s do not warrant it but any and all land owners should come first in any selection!

[Caveman]

Sad place where a land owner that pays taxes on his property year in and year out and cant get a tag to take a deer, Regardless of land size. I can see giving very few doe tags out to an area if the deer #'s do not warrant it but any and all land owners should come first in any selection!

 

[jjb4900]

Sad place where a land owner that pays taxes on his property year in and year out and cant get a tag to take a deer, Regardless of land size. I can see giving very few doe tags out to an area if the deer #'s do not warrant it but any and all land owners should come first in any selection!

by that thinking, anyone who owns a any taxed property, whether it be a coop / condo in the heart of NYC, a postage stamp sized piece of property on Long Island or a 1000 acres in northern NY, should all be on a level playing field....I think a guy who has 50 acres or more should get a slight edge over some of the others......but that's just my thoughts.

[letinmfly]

by that thinking, anyone who owns a any taxed property, whether it be a coop / condo in the heart of NYC, a postage stamp sized piece of property on Long Island or a 1000 acres in northern NY, should all be on a level playing field....I think a guy who has 50 acres or more should get a slight edge over some of the others......but that's just my thoughts.

 

True to some extent.  Here's my argument... I can guarantee that I pay more taxes on my 46 acres then my neighbor, whose family has been up there for 150 years, who owns 200 acres.  Where's the level playing field now?   If we're talking level playing fields, it should be across the board on all aspects.

[jrm]

by that thinking, anyone who owns a any taxed property, whether it be a coop / condo in the heart of NYC, a postage stamp sized piece of property on Long Island or a 1000 acres in northern NY, should all be on a level playing field....I think a guy who has 50 acres or more should get a slight edge over some of the others......but that's just my thoughts.

 

Not sure it is the same thing. 

 

If you own property in an area, you should have an advantage when it comes to using that same property. The person with 50 acres already has an advantage over the person with, say, 20 acres... they have 30 more acres to hunt/farm/whatever. Both pay their share of taxes in that area and should be entitled to whatever benefits their land has to offer.

 

Of course, our taxation system is inherently unfair.

 

I live downstate where my "primary" residence is. I also own a second home upstate. I pay taxes, just like anyone else in both areas. However, I am only permitted to vote in one of those locations. While this makes sense for state and federal level, it does not at the local level. I have no say over the local elections, school budget, etc. Taxation without representation at it's finest. While not exactly on-topic, it does show how un-level the playing field is.

[NYHuntFish]

Where are the most amount of doe?

 

....I don't know if I did this right, but I wanted to see where the biggest areas were for deer in Region 8. If I did it correctly, I can make another one for another area if anyone wants. 

 

Also, The "doe take" I just made by subtracting the two numbers (they provided) of total deer take and total buck take for 2013 so I'm not sure if the theory is correct.

 

**All numbers are based on "per square mile." So "take per square mile in the given area."

Edited August 8, 2014 by NYHuntFish

[jjb4900]

I've never heard many complaints about the preferential way dmp's are given out to landowners of 50 acres or more and NYS residents.....if they started giving them out based on the simple fact of people being property tax paying residents of NY it would be a disaster, because then what, do they issue them to the highest tax payer first?

[jrm]

At this point, I was just trying to understand how it all works.

 

Sure, there has to be a limit and 50 acres seems a reasonable place to draw the line. At the same time, it can seem a little strange that you can own land in a unit like 4O, pay taxes on that land, but not be able to get a DMP to hunt that same land. That person owning a condo in NYC has the same chance of getting a DMP in 4O as the resident who owns 49 acres in 4O.

 

But that's the way it is. Government works in mysterious ways.

 

Where I do have a "problem" is the "pay to play" lottery system. Using 4O as an example again - you must have PP to have a chance at a DMP. That requires you to pay for that tag for 1-3 (or more) years. For at least the first year (and likely more) you are _guaranteed_ to get nothing (except a point to apply the following year).

 

One could argue it is "only" $10 a pop. I still have a problem with the concept of giving money to the government in the hope that, through some "behind closed doors" process, they may (or may not) provide me something in return at some point in the future.

 

 

Regarding the "highest tax payer first" idea... they are already doing that with the >50 acre rule. Theoretically, the owner of 50 acres is paying more taxes than the owner of 20, 30 or 40. So the system is giving preferential treatment to the highest tax payers. I am not necessarily disagreeing with the land ownership requirement, only pointing out that it contradicts your argument.

[jjb4900]

At this point, I was just trying to understand how it all works.

 

Sure, there has to be a limit and 50 acres seems a reasonable place to draw the line. At the same time, it can seem a little strange that you can own land in a unit like 4O, pay taxes on that land, but not be able to get a DMP to hunt that same land. That person owning a condo in NYC has the same chance of getting a DMP in 4O as the resident who owns 49 acres in 4O.

 

But that's the way it is. Government works in mysterious ways.

 

Where I do have a "problem" is the "pay to play" lottery system. Using 4O as an example again - you must have PP to have a chance at a DMP. That requires you to pay for that tag for 1-3 (or more) years. For at least the first year (and likely more) you are _guaranteed_ to get nothing (except a point to apply the following year).

 

One could argue it is "only" $10 a pop. I still have a problem with the concept of giving money to the government in the hope that, through some "behind closed doors" process, they may (or may not) provide me something in return at some point in the future.

 

 

Regarding the "highest tax payer first" idea... they are already doing that with the >50 acre rule. Theoretically, the owner of 50 acres is paying more taxes than the owner of 20, 30 or 40. So the system is giving preferential treatment to the highest tax payers. I am not necessarily disagreeing with the land ownership requirement, only pointing out that it contradicts your argument.

but there are parts of Westchester and L.I. were the guy who only owns an acre with a house, is paying thousands more than a guy who owns 50 acres in many northern areas........50 acres in some parts are paying thousands less than much smaller parcels elsewhere...that's the point I was trying to make.

[jrm]

but there are parts of Westchester and L.I. were the guy who only owns an acre with a house, is paying thousands more than a guy who owns 50 acres in many northern areas........50 acres in some parts are paying thousands less than much smaller parcels elsewhere...that's the point I was trying to make.

 

I understand. I am one of those on Long Island - about 1/4 acre of property. My taxes are obscene. Compare that to about 30 acres upstate with a comparable home - the numbers aren't close.

 

Your point is valid and I agree it is not fair. The argument is that the landowner on LI gets more "services" for his money, but that's really BS. It isn't fair. Taxation is simply legalized extortion.

 

Regarding DMPs, I think there is another side to this. Regardless of who pay what for taxes, the actual location of that property and the owner's desired use should be a factor. If your property is in 4O, you should receive some sort of advantage for using _your own property_ in 4O. It's not so much who is paying how much in taxes, it is more I am paying taxes for _this_ land and someone who pays no taxes at all in this area gets the same opportunity at resources in _this_ area.

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

Just throwing this out there regarding DMP's and not looking to start another crossbow debate

From what I'm seeing how the way the regs are worded you need the muzzleloader tag to use crossbow during the second half of bow which would make it a guaranteed doe tag for $15.00 in ANY zone that crossbows can be used Landowner or not

So if your looking to put some meat in the freezer go for it!

Correct me if I'm wrong on this

Edited August 8, 2014 by LI OUTDOORSMAN

[sidewinder]

just back from BP in Auburn. system was running slow but no problems. was able to get both my 1st and 2nd choice so the easy part is done............ i guess now it will come down to the hard part(filling of tags) and making them count.

[Hock3y24]

Just got mine online, dmp worked, how long till they mail them out?

[jjb4900]

Just throwing this out there regarding DMP's and not looking to start another crossbow debate

From what I'm seeing how the way the regs are worded you need the muzzleloader tag to use crossbow during the second half of bow which would make it a guaranteed doe tag for $15.00 in ANY zone that crossbows can be used Landowner or not

So if your looking to put some meat in the freezer go for it!

Correct me if I'm wrong on this

think you're correct, or get into muzzleloading.....that was my solution to slim pickings as far as the dmp's go.....and you can get a decent muzzleloader for a lot less than a decent crossbow.

Edited August 8, 2014 by jjb4900

[sidewinder]

Just got mine online, dmp worked, how long till they mail them out?

 

14 (2 weeks) days or so they say. if you put it for them online/phone today.......... probably in all likely hood by Monday August the 18th.

[sidewinder]

ok i got my time/dates mixed up. by August 25th you should have your tags in hand. if after the 14 days............. just like a state refund check................... it is probably in the Mail.

 

[Hock3y24]

Sweet, didn't know it was that easy online

[virgil]

I got mine today at Dicks. No problem.

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

Yes jjb4900 your right about the cost difference between the two weapons but I was suggesting crossbows only because a hunter would not have to wait for the season to basically be over to tag out a doe but you are right the muzzleloader is another way for  you to get meat

Alot of folks don't take advantage of this

We like to take does on our lease early to hopefully make bucks search harder for company during the rut

 

[Waldershrek]

This is why I'm waiting to get mine

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Got a couple 8m's today and all went smooth. I believe i read on here that the doe tags had to be paid for if you had a lifetime bought after 2004?  Not real sure on that but mine were free today and mine was bought after the 2004 date!