Stay away from Frontenac Fowlers Jay Barnes NY

[Sab]

Just to give you some history..... I posted last week that I had a deer hunt with a finger lakes guide in NY and I would post again to let you all know about it. I also said I would wait to post about the hunt until I had e mailed or spoke to the guide. I gave him a week and have not heard back from him so I figured either he doesn't care or he agrees with my assessment since I wrote him a detailed e mail so here goes....

I Booked a hunt with Jay Barnes of Frontenac Fowlers in Union Springs NY-it's the finger lakes region. I had heard great things about that part of the state due to a number of factors, low pressure, food sources, cover etc. Add to that this year we lost our land to hunt on and I was excited about trying a new place in an area that had potential. I spoke to Jay-the owner and guide and we agreed on a price and days to be hunted. It would be for three days-opening day and the 2 following days. We agreed that no lodging or food would be provided. We agreed that it would be for $450. I sent Jay the deposit and waited till the trip. We spoke a couple of times and Jay seemed nice enough and also seemed to have confidence in his ability to put you on deer and also of the size of the deer. We last spoke a few days before the hunt and it was set that I would get to the area on the day before and Jay and I would hook up. I arrived and checked into my hotel. I spoke to Jay and he informed me he was busy running around and also making sausage soup. We agreed to meet at his house the next morning at 515 where I would follow him in my vehicle to the farm I would hunt. Jay had said, and I think his website says, he has 600 acres for deer hunting. Opening morning I get to Jays house at 515am and wait for Jay to come out at about 525, we chat and load up his polaris and head out. I follow him to the farm where I then get into the polaris and ride about 300 yards to the corner of a cut corn field. Jay then tells me he didnt have time to mark the path to the stand I would be hunting but "its easy to find" I get out and try finding the stand. I cant find the stand since its dark, Im on land Ive never hunted, and its not marked in anyway at all. I am not new to hunting, Ive been doing it for over 30 years and gone on 13 guided hunts...definately not my first rodeo. I call Jay 3 times. He does answer all 3 times but he doesnt offer to come back, afterall it is opening day and I guess its more important that he hunt rather than put a paying customer (me) on the stand and provide the hunt Im paying for. He does say on one conversation that he knows the woods like the back of his hand and the place is loaded with deer-not to worry. I already start to wonder what Im paying for if the owner/guide cant get me to a stand for opening day. I finally find my stand around 8-815 am. I call to tell him and he sounds relieved. I see one small scrappy 3 point buck but I dont shoot since Jay says there are plenty of deer in the area and he has a policy of outside the ears. Im ok with the policy by the way. I want to see deer and shoot a nice sized buck. Thats it for the rest of the day. Jay apologizes and asks what Im doing for dinner I tell him I guess going out. He says he feels horrible about the morning and makes an offer to go eat together-Im alone so why not. Check comes for dinner and Jay offers to treat (total bill with cocktail is $60) I say no thanks-put me on deer and all will be forgotten. Next day-same thing-I meet Jay at his house follow him to farm get in polaris and ride to back of the same field I got lost in day before. I find my stand with no problem (I marked in on way out the night before) See no deer all day. At 245 Jay calls and asks what Ive seen. I tell him nothing at all and he offers to move me. My thinking was no-not at 245- I'd maybe in my stand for 315 and sundown is at like 435 440 so I didnt want to move for an hour and a half...See nothing for rest of that day. Totally frustrated at this point. I meet Jay who proceeds to tell me about himself and his 2 friends who have been seeing big deer over the last 2 days, 1 of his friends got a monster 10 pointer. I start to wonder why me-the paying customer is sitting in the same small woodlot in the same corner of the same cut cornfield for 2 days when Jay is supposed to have 600 acres to hunt on and him and his buddies are seeing deer and shooting deer. Jay offer to go to dinner again but at this point I realize Im paying for Jay and his buddies to hunt while I watch bluejays and dont see deer and Jays remedy is to go to dinner together. I tell Jay Im leaving a day early. He doesnt seem upset but does offer to "give me a great price on a duck hunt next year" yeah right I'm figuring. I leave the next morning, a day early after seeing only 1 deer-the 3 pointer and about 10 acres of the supposed 600 acres he has all the while him and his friends are shooting deer. I did everything I was supposed to do. I peed in a bottle, kept my movement to a minimum, I dont smoke, in short I know how to hunt. I e mailed Jay exactly how I felt and what I thought and gave him time to reply to see if we had different views of what happened but he has not, in my follow up e mail when I told him I would post up my story about the hunt I also told him I thought it was ridiculous and avoiding the problem by not getting in touch with me to discuss it but he still doesnt respond so Im doing like I told him I would and post up about my hunt and I would also e mail him the links to where I posted so if he want to respond he can. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to get all the facts and the story straight.

In short STAY AWAY FROM JAY BARNES AND FRONTECAC FOWLERS unless you want to pay for Jay to hunt while you tree watch

Sab

[WNYBuckHunter]

Just from reading your story, I gotta say it sounds like he didnt quite have his stuff together 100%, but you did leave a day early and didnt seem to mention to him that youd like to try another area. It sounds like your lack of success cant just fall on his shoulders. No guided hunt is 100% guaranteed, if it is, youre hunting in a pen.

[Sab]

I understand that hunting is not 100% sucess. if I wanted that I would go to a preserve. But after not seeing anything but a small 3pointer after 2 full days in the stand I was kind of dejected. I wouldnt ask to be moved after the first day and by the end of the second day my thoughts were wtf ? Him and his buddies were seeing deer and I felt like I was just being taken. I couldn't see asking at that point to be moved, it was a three day hunt. I paid to see deer, I dont need to kill deer anymore, those days are over for me. I knew(or thought I knew) going in that I would see deer I couldnt shoot because of the size limits Jay places on his operations. Thats what led me to believe I would at least see deer, the fact he said dont shoot unless its outside the ears. You are correct when you say I didnt ask to be moved but by the point I wouldve normally asked I was so dejected and I had 1 day left I couldnt see asking to be moved especially when I had no faith in his ability to or desire to put me on deer. He seemed like a nice guy and one of the most troubling parts was even after I got home and thought about the hunt and let my feelings settle and tried to get in touch with him to discuss the issues he wouldn't answer. Honestly, Ive been on a lot of guided and un guided and self guided hunts in my life. I know where and when Ive screwed up. I didnt screw this up at all except maybe not saying to him at the end of day 2 "move me" but like I said I had no faith in him at that point and thought it was futile.

Sab

[FULLDRAWXX75]

Rule #1 when using an outfitter or guide.............................references and a list of previous hunters to contact. The guides own personal stats of himself are one sided and for his own WOW factor.

If they can not provide a list or refuse to...............................ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, stay away!!!!!!!!!

I don't care if you hunt open property or in a fenced in area..............................nothing is 100%. unless the game is tied to a stake, and that is not hunting, that is killing.

FDXX

[Geno C]

Just from reading your story, I gotta say it sounds like he didnt quite have his stuff together 100%, but you did leave a day early and didnt seem to mention to him that youd like to try another area. It sounds like your lack of success cant just fall on his shoulders. No guided hunt is 100% guaranteed, if it is, youre hunting in a pen.

NOTHING is 100% guaranteed, NOT even a pen....

[First-light]

I know of a guy that tries to befriend you, talks up a storm about hunting. Invites you to drive deer on his property on last weekend. Calls himself a guide and charges guys to stay at one of his rentals. He owns hardly any acreage but get permission to hunt on other people, mostly from out-of-town. When your not there he brings over his customers to hunt your property, what a hoot! I met this guy a few years back when we had shot a real big buck and it was hanging from the pole at my camp. I knew right after he left that something wasn't right. My neighbor came by and told me all about him and said stay away.

Sab-you live and learn. Sorry it didn't work out for you. I have heard worse stories than yours be thankful you actually got to hunt. Some people show up to hunt to find the guide has left with all your money.

[shu9265]

Sab,I am NOT a guide or an outfitter in any way. 

Just a guy that loves to hunt deer in the swamp.  If you would be interested in heading to western NY, I would be happy to show you around here.

I offer this as a NO CHARGE, service.  You supply your own stand or blind, and I will show you around some very nice areas.  You make the decision on where you want your stand or blind.

I will take you in and show you around, and you are welcome to hunt with myself and the three boys. Or on your own.  You make the call.

THe invite is open if you would like to come this way and hunt.    Bill

[Dave]

Sab, should have gotten a map of all his hunting property. That you could have moved on your own. Something wrong when guide can't put his customers on stand, especially in the dark on opening day.

Live and learn.

Dave

[nyantler]

Although he can't guarantee you a deer.. he should have guaranteed at least an enjoyable hunt... as a paying customer you are at least entitled to his utmost attention. I wouldn't consider him a guide or a good guy for that matter, but rather a collector of a generous donation to his bank account by you. From what I can tell.. you already knew that a deer wasn't guaranteed and were just looking for a chance to take a nice buck and enjoy yourself at the same time.. I would go as far as to contact someone from the state to make sure the guy is paying taxes on his so called "GUIDE" business. Maybe you can keep him from stealing others money.

[VT Outfitter]

Not having the trails marked to navigate to stand......un-forgivable.

Not meeting the client at the agreed upon time in the morning........un-professional 

Not offering to change stands and keeping the "good hunting" for himself and friends------ un-believable and selfish

 

I love hunting, every aspect of the hunt, whether is bow or firearm. But.....I get more thrills from guiding. All of the really hard work that goes into operating an outfitting business, to make the correct move while playing this chess game we call "hunting", to see and hear the excitement of a hunter during the nightly debriefing with details of a near shot opportunity, to share a smile with a successful hunter. This is my passion, my lifestyle, and my motivation in life.

I am sorry to read of your experience Sab. There are outfitters and guides out there that will work hard for their clients, then there are guys that just want the title and none of the work. Best of luck this hunting season!