Interesting!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

STOCKING UP FOR HUNTING

December 1, 2014

To stock or not to stock? Recently, the Pennsylvania Game Commission announced that it will release 220,000 farm-raised pheasants this year for hunting purposes.

Raising game birds to be released for hunters is common practice across the country, and pheasants are one of the world’s most hunted birds. They are raised on farms for the explicit purpose of being ‘hunted’ and no one screams about it or attempts to pass legislation to stop it. It’s perfectly fine.

Another good example is bobwhite quail, an upland game bird that has been a favorite target of sportsmen for centuries, and farm-raised quail have been used to stock hunting ranches for about just as long..U.S. farmers produced nearly 40 million quail in 2007, which is the most recent available data through the USDA.

If quail are not flushed, they will stay in the immediate area where the land owner or ranch manager puts them. Plus, the birds do not fly when they are stressed, so it is generally recommended that the ranch owners put the birds out about one hour before hunting. So, do you get the picture? Farm-raised quail are placed on a piece of property. The ranch owner knows exactly where they are and then takes the hunter out a hour later....and everyone is happy. The quail farmers are happy. The ranch owner is happy. And, more importantly, the hunter is happy with his experience.

No one squawks about it. No one has a problem with it. It’s perfectly acceptable to all sportsmen....and, frankly, I don’t have a problem with it either.

But place a few farm-raised deer on a 1,000-acre ranch and set a hunter in a blind...and the moral outrage and condemnation begins. IT’S HORRIBLE. IT’S OUTRAGEOUS. IT’S UNETHICAL. IT’S NOT FAIR CHASE. YOU’RE DESTROYING OUR HUNTING HERITAGE!!!!

When you raise whitetail deer and then move those deer into hunting areas, the media and a majority of sportsmen scream bloody murder and decry the practice as unethical. They say it’s not ‘real’ hunting, and basically attack other hunters for exercising their freedom to choose how and where to hunt. Some groups, like QDMA — a group I like to call the Questionable Deer Management Association — have even adopted the tactics of the infamous, anti-hunting group HSUS and pushed legislation to destroy the legal and successful deer industry.

How can placing farm-raised animals in a hunting environment be acceptable for one species and not another?

Why is it okay to farm-raise, place and then hunt pheasants and quail, but the same practice with deer is an assault on our hunting heritage?

Maybe I’m too simple-minded. But it seems to me that an act is either ethical or it isn’t. As they say, you cannot be a just a little bit pregnant.

When I posted an ‘Hypocrisy Alert’ on the Outdoor Patriot Facebook page about Pennsylvania’s pheasant stocking, I received an interesting response from one alleged hunter who said stocking pheasants was okay, but not deer because hunters did not need to stock deer.

The argument of who needs or doesn’t need to hunt or stock is ridiculous and, frankly, it’s one that I would expect from a gun-grabbing, Colorado-pot smoking, book burning, tyranny-loving Progressive who wants to tell others what they need and don’t need and then pass laws to impose their beliefs onto others.

Hunters and all Americans need to wake up. This isn’t about need at all. It’s about freedom — Freedom as a consumer in a capitalistic society to buy a legal product or service. Too often, others tell us what we need and don't need and before too long we all become good little sheeple and they are making the decisions for us.

When it comes to hunting, let’s be honest. In today’s modern supersized culture in the United States, who really ‘needs’ to hunt anything?

There are many reasons we choose to hunt — sustenance, connect with nature, heritage, and others...all of them good. But, with a few exceptions of some isolated Inuit or Native American tribes, ‘need’ is rarely, if ever, a factor. Food in this country is plentiful.

While a survey published in the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation shows that 81 percent of the people support hunting, the majority of the people still agree that there is no ‘need’ to hunt.

There are many possessions and services in America today that we don’t ‘need’. We don’t need diamond-studded watches, bottled water, video games, monster trucks, organic chicken, designer running shoes, tanning salons, Ferraris, and pumpkin spice lattes. As Americans, we have the freedom to choose the products and services we want, and a capitalistic system provides for it. If enough people demonstrate demand for something, the market will supply it.

Denying law-abiding citizens a product or service they want and can afford simply based on someone else’s opinion on what they think you need is at the heart of fascism. Do you want the government to decide for you what you need? Do you want other hunters to decide for you which animals you need and don’t need to hunt? Do you want other hunters to decide for you how and where you will hunt?

No one in Pennsylvania needs to hunt farm-raised pheasants. We don’t need to hunt quail. However, state agencies and land owners across the country are responding to consumer demand and creating successful markets. Stocking and hunting pheasants and quail are enjoyable experiences. They are great ways to introduce more youth to hunting, and they generate revenue for state economies. It’s a win-win-win.

So, how is raising deer any different? If stocked hunting is for the birds, then it is for the deer as well.

 

[growalot]

You do know that where ever those birds are released...the land has to be open to the general hunting population free of charge....That program is different than private owned pheasant hunts. Which ppl have had some negative opinions on.... I'm also sure you realize that the first out break of disease that could effect other live stock or wild birds and they would do the same things being done with deer farms and CWD.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You do know that where ever those birds are released...the land has to be open to the general hunting population free of charge....That program is different than private owned pheasant hunts. Which ppl have had some negative opinions on.... I'm also sure you realize that the first out break of disease that could effect other live stock or wild birds and they would do the same things being done with deer farms and CWD.

You may want to check the reg's in all states. I have no problem controlling a disease that is killing any people or animals. CWD is doing neither!!!! We are not talking raising here. We are talking the hypocrites that can kill any other human, hand raised living thing and be just peachy with it untill we put the Whitetail deer in the paragraph. How much more two faced can anyone get?

[G-Man]

I have had a problem with put and take hunting for years,work on proper habitat and reduce predators ,then stock. It's my biggest problem with pheasant programs in nys. Can not see spending 20 dollars plus for each pheasant for 50,000 hunters.enjoyment. if the money went to habitat first i'd have a different view.

[growalot]

OK...I have to say this you ask that question  knowing you really got in to this not to raise and sell doe for hunts in your land or doe to go to other preserves for hunts...It was really about the bucks.....but not only the buck lets be honest the bucks head gear. You compare pheasants and it's apple to oranges 

these birds are bred for one trait they aren't plentiful in the wild as deer and they need to be able to fly.

Guys hunt bucks... really HONESTY HERE... for their racks and there are records books that keep tabs...so when farms are going out of their way to genetically  put the fix in on a bucks rack to sell in hunts or further breeding to basically rich guys...why would you be surprised that joe shmoe would be ticked that with all his best efforts his wild killed deer would nearly never measure up?

Those pheasants are not being genetically manipulated or enhanced not the same thing no matter how you spin it...

By the end of hunting I end up wishing that all buck would stop growing racks for the next season....then the craziness would stop and everyone could just go hunt deer period...

Edited December 3, 2014 by growalot

[Mr VJP]

I'm OK with all of it, but I don't believe any of it is the same as hunting really wild animals or birds.  I believe in freedom and capitalism, so if there is a market for it, go for it.

 

I do worry that stocking any creature for hunting is going to become a target for the anti's one day and it will be hard to defend in the eyes of non-hunters.  Having seen stocked pheasant being hunted by large crowds, it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

I think the way we stock turkey is perfect.  They are captured where they are plenty, released where they are few, reproduce, thrive and are truly wild when hunted.  I wish all stocking was done that way.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Instead of stocking pheasants - or "chickens" as one of my DEC friends calls them - why don't they just give us each one? Maybe they could process them with the money they save on stocking labor.

[growalot]

unfortunately the pheasants they stock aren't expected to live(nys) through the winter anyways they aren't a native species it is purely to have birds to flush. big difference to turkeys...which are still a native species and they campaigned for good habitat improvement as well...unlike with the pheasants....

[Mr VJP]

Pheasant can easily survive rough winters, as they do in the wild in places like No Dakota.  They need good habitat and fewer predators to do so, however.  Improving habitat and controlling predators is costly and long term, and pheasant would need to be stocked from wild populations in order to teach their young how to survive too.

 

Long term reward isn't popular anymore, as most people are seeking instant gratification. 

 

[growalot]

A good read...

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7273.html

[Four Season Whitetail's]

OK...I have to say this you ask that question  knowing you really got in to this not to raise and sell doe for hunts in your land or doe to go to other preserves for hunts...It was really about the bucks.....but not only the buck lets be honest the bucks head gear. You compare pheasants and it's apple to oranges 

these birds are bred for one trait they aren't plentiful in the wild as deer and they need to be able to fly.

Guys hunt bucks... really HONESTY HERE... for their racks and there are records books that keep tabs...so when farms are going out of their way to genetically  put the fix in on a bucks rack to sell in hunts or further breeding to basically rich guys...why would you be surprised that joe shmoe would be ticked that with all his best efforts his wild killed deer would nearly never measure up?

Those pheasants are not being genetically manipulated or enhanced not the same thing no matter how you spin it...

By the end of hunting I end up wishing that all buck would stop growing racks for the next season....then the craziness would stop and everyone could just go hunt deer period...

Ya know..Honesty here really has nothing to do with it. A person should have the choice to do as they see fit. If a guy wants to spend 10 grand on a hunt within a well run ranch, thats his business, not ours. The problem lays with the ones on the outside that are not involved.

 Yes its all about the bone on the head inside just as it is for me and 99% of all hunters if they were being honest. I would bet the farm very few would turn down a free hunt on a 500 acre ranch with their choice of buck scoring 120 up to 200 inches killed by any legal means and i will also show you the 200 inch buck everyone would choose. Even though half of those hunter have never killed a 120in buck they would not be happy without the 200incher.

If people just minded to their own affairs and not those of others we would be in a lot better place. And as far as the birds goes, it really makes no diff. They will kill any other human raised animal without as much as a thought but you put a deer in there and it all changes. All animals are not created equal i guess. Or it just two faced hypocrites doing the thinking!

[nyantler]

I think the way we stock turkey is perfect.  They are captured where they are plenty, released where they are few, reproduce, thrive and are truly wild when hunted.  I wish all stocking was done that way.

 

To be fair that has been tried and tried in NY with pheasants... and for some reason it just isn't working like it did with the turkeys.

[nyantler]

As for "canned" or "planted" hunts or farming deer...I have the right not to like them and say so... you have the right to not like my opinion or me saying so... get over it. This whole using the deer farming issue to troll for an argument is getting ridiculous and seems to be entering into almost every thread on the forum. Then as soon as you aren't getting enough attention on someone else's thread you start another to keep the nonsense going.

Edited December 4, 2014 by nyantler

[sampotter]

That's because pheasants are from China just like everything else that looks great at first but doesn't last long.

[sampotter]

"Hunting" farm animals is like hiring a prostitute in Vegas; sure you "bagged" one but are you really proud enough to tell your friends about it?

[BizCT]

FSW is a millionaire so he hires "escorts", not "prostitutes". In other news, he PMd me a picture of him and his family.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited December 4, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Four Season Whitetail's]

As for "canned" or "planted" hunts or farming deer...I have the right not to like them and say so... you have the right to not like my opinion or me saying so... get over it. This whole using the deer farming issue to troll for an argument is getting ridiculous and seems to be entering into almost every thread on the forum. Then as soon as you aren't getting enough attention on someone else's thread you start another to keep the nonsense going.

Well good for you. Make your opinion and move on. The only time an argument comes up or a couple children put posts on that really shows their intelligence,like the rat does is when facts are shown to prove how two faced they really are.  If you dont like the post then stay away from them. Pretty simple!

[nyantler]

Well good for you. Make your opinion and move on. The only time an argument comes up or a couple children put posts on that really shows their intelligence,like the rat does is when facts are shown to prove how two faced they really are.  If you dont like the post then stay away from them. Pretty simple!

You don't read well at all... go back to the part where I said you are hijacking almost all the threads with your crap. Believe me I usually try to avoid responding to your posts and fall prey to your trolling ... but it's getting harder because you're everywhere with your nonsense

[Mr VJP]

To be fair that has been tried and tried in NY with pheasants... and for some reason it just isn't working like it did with the turkeys.

 

 

It hasn't worked because nothing has been done to improve habitat and reduce predator numbers.

 

NY has perfect turkey habitat and few turkey predators.  That is why stocking turkeys works in NY and even Northern NJ.

 

There are plenty of places in NY where the habitat will support pheasant year round, but there are a lot of fox around.  Banning leg hold traps put a lot of trappers out of the field and predator numbers are harder to control now.

 

There are many places in PA & NJ where they have wild pheasant populations.  I can be done successfully but it requires knowledge of what needs to be done.

[Curmudgeon]

It hasn't worked because nothing has been done to improve habitat and reduce predator numbers.

 

NY has perfect turkey habitat and few turkey predators.  That is why stocking turkeys works in NY and even Northern NJ.

 

There are plenty of places in NY where the habitat will support pheasant year round, but there are a lot of fox around.  Banning leg hold traps put a lot of trappers out of the field and predator numbers are harder to control now.

 

There are many places in PA & NJ where they have wild pheasant populations.  I can be done successfully but it requires knowledge of what needs to be done.

 

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona.

 

As far as canned hunts, I have some Dorset sheep I want to liquidate. They can be quite sporting in their pasture. No hunting license is needed. They are polled Dorsets so no headgear. Sorry.

 

[sampotter]

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona.

 

As far as canned hunts, I have some Dorset sheep I want to liquidate. They can be quite sporting in their pasture. No hunting license is needed. They are polled Dorsets so no headgear. Sorry.

 

 

 

Geez- don't post that on here- someone is bound to take you up on your offer!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona.

 

As far as canned hunts, I have some Dorset sheep I want to liquidate. They can be quite sporting in their pasture. No hunting license is needed. They are polled Dorsets so no headgear. Sorry.

 

Wow...using ***phile and sheep in the same post.....LOL

[Curmudgeon]

But not the same sentence!

[phade]

This thread is just attention whoring at its finest.

 

Haven't raised a stink about the private deer industry or CWD lately? You can count on a "look at me" post from FSW.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This thread is just attention whoring at its finest.

 

Haven't raised a stink about the private deer industry or CWD lately? You can count on a "look at me" post from FSW.

Yeah Ok...This thread shows only one thing and that is how two faced people really are.. I love it because half of you fit this bill just fine and im happy to show everyone just that with your replys. We can kill anything anywhere except the pretty little deer! Whatever! 

Dont need to throw attention to one of the fastest growing industries around. Trust me, That industry is rolling along just fine and this thread was no about the deer industry. I love how truths and facts burn the one's that fit the post