AXIS-II 7mm-08 Loading Bench/Range Reports

[wildcat junkie]

Loading Bench Report:

 

First we'll go over the results of my brief bit of load development. I had data from my previous load experience with the 7mm-08. I develope my base data from "Quickload", a very reliable software program for predicting internal ballistics. It can be uncanny in its predictions of Mv/pressure. As with "book data" one needs to back off starting loads if unfamiliar with the case/bullet/powder combo or the particular weapon that is being loaded for the 1st time around.

 

There is a thread about this particular weapon here.  http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/26124-savage-axis-ii-im-impressed-and-im-pretty-picky/

 

I had found in the past that "high energy" powders such as Vihtavouri N500 series will achieve up to 100 fps better Mv at similar pressure compared to the various old standbys like IMR, Hodgdon, etc conventional powders. More recently, Alliant RL17 has been developed for the new breed of "short magnums" & it will perform similar to Vv N550 in medium case volume/bore ratio cartridges.

 

I had nearly a pound of Vv N550 on hand, so that was the powder I used. My previous 2900 fps load for my M700 7mm-08 was 47gr of Vv N550 behind a 140gr Nosler BT. Since the chamber of the Savage AXIS-II was considerably tighter than the M700 I backed off 2gr. I felt this was a good starting point since the magazine length of the Savage allowed me to seat the bullets out .050" farther to get them close to the rifling lands, thus somewhat mitigating the higher expected chamber pressure from the tight chamber.

 

"QuickLoad" predicted about 2825 fps @ 48K chamber pressure W/the 139gr SST @ 2.850" OAL. As usual, Vv N550 reached a bit more Mv than predicted & the bullets were leaving the barrel in the 2875 fps range W/ some hitting just a bit over 2900. I felt I had room for just a bit more powder so I bumped it up .5gr. Mv icreased only slightly, but it became more consistant. Quickload predicted about 2860 fps @ 50K chamber pressure. Actual Mv indicated chamber pressure closer to 60K so this was close to SAMMI max spec & still perfectly safe in a bolt action rifle of modern design. There where no physical signs of high pessure. No hard bolt lift, ejector pin marks on the case head or severely flattened primers. Below are the results.

 

5 Shot String Data:

 

• High Mv:   2928 fps
• Low Mv:    2901 fps
• Av Mv:       2912 fps
• Ex spread: 26.2 fps
• Std dev:     11.4 fps
• Av dev:           8 fps

This is some of the best consistancy I have ever seen. I decided to load up the 75 remaining 139gr SSTs for a range session.

Edited December 29, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Range Report:

 

We made a change to the "package" by swapping out the "Chinese Weaver" for my 3-9X40 Leupold VX-I 3-9X40. It barely fit between the OE rings/mounts but there was about 1/8" to spare. Not ideal, but acceptable. I split the difference. I had also previously adjusted the "Accu-trigger" to just under 3#.

 

 

The end result was a quite pleasing to the eye IMO.

 

When we got to the range I helped Curtis (the young man that purchased the rifle) settle into the sand bags & had him dry fire the rifle several times. Since the weapon was no longer "bore sighted" we stated of at 25 yds. After making adjustments after the 1st shot, I had it pretty well dialed in @ 25 yds.

 

We moved the target out to 100yds & he fired a 5 shot group to assure we wouldn't be chasing flyers when we fine tuned it.

 

Now bear in mind that Curtis had anly fired 1 round from a ,270 sometime in the past & he shot a few rounds out of my Dad's 30/40 Krag @ a milk jugs a few weeks back. He seems to take instruction well. After a bit of coaching  the results were quite impressive. The bullet hole marked "1" @ 7 o'clock low on the picture below was the 1st shot @ 25 yds. The hole marked "2" is the next shot after reticle adjusment. The 100 yd 5 shot group circled @ 11 o'clock high is the very 1st group this young man has ever attempted W/a CF rifle. The group @ 12 0'clock on the center bull was after I made adjusments for 2 1/2" high POI.

 

If you discount the flyer @ 11 o'clock, that's about a 1 1/2" group. Pretty damned good for the 1st try by a novice. As is sometimes the case. His 1st attempt was his best & I think he got to trying too hard. The group on the bull lower right was mine & I was having a hard time seeing the small bull through the glass W/my 60+ year old eyes. it was blending into the larger bull in the center.

 

After shooting the 4 CF rifles we had brought to the range for a few hours, we took the 7mm-08 & my 8X57 to the 200yds range. The backstop is a high bank where the range was dug into a hill side. The berm is about 250yds from the firing line. We took turns firing @ volleyball & larger sized rocks on the berm. Using dead on holds we were all able to cosistantly hit the large rocks W/the 7mm-08 resulting in a satifying thump & clouds of dust. Everone got to take a few cracks W/the ful power Euro spec loads from the 8X57  which resulted in a deeper "whump" & even larger clouds of dust.

 

 

Curtis is quite pleased W/his purchase.

 

He is going to apply his $50 rebate & what ever we can get for his Kaspa on e-bay towards a Boyds Classic laminated stock. W/ the addition of a stable platform for the action, I think this weapon will be a real tack driver, especially once he gets a lttle more trigger experience.

Edited December 29, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Hock3y24]

Good start! If you need to move the scope closer or need more clearance there are longer scope ring bases they make fore the savage 10 or 11 that will help.

[wildcat junkie]

Good start! If you need to move the scope closer or need more clearance there are longer scope ring bases they make fore the savage 10 or 11 that will help.

Yeah I have some Leupy rings, but fortunately, the scope came out just right.

[Pygmy]

Kudos to both you and Curtis...

 

He's a fortunate lad to have someone such as yourself as a mentor.

[wildcat junkie]

Kudos to both you and Curtis...

 

He's a fortunate lad to have someone such as yourself as a mentor.

Curtis came out year before last to help clear shooting lanes that had grow up over the last 4 or 5 years. He did it voluntarily since he didn't even hunt. My son coaxed him to shoot the 30/40 Krag & go out intomthe woods W/O a gun a few times so he's ready to get his hunter ed certificate & hunt next year.

 

His Dad (who gave nim the $$ for a rifle for Chrismas) wanted him to buy a "Henry" lever gun & was willing to front the $1000 price. Since Curtis listened to me he wanted a bolt gun, he was only willing to front $500. His Dad then recommended a .270 since the 7mm ought 8    was magnum because it had more power than an ought 6. He didn't even go into the store W/his son to buy his 1st CF rifle. In hindsight it was proably a good thing.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, there aint no flys on a .270, but for a 1st gun & considering that it would have a 22" barrel, I think the 7mm-08 was a better choice. Curtis made the purchase all by himself & listened to reason instead of emotion & myth.

 

He's now surfing the Boyds site drooling over the Classic laminated stocks.

Edited December 29, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

 

 

He's a fortunate lad to have someone such as yourself as a mentor.

You know, after thinking about your post a while I want to point out that I am also feel fortunate.

 

Until my son & Curtis started helping me I was fast losing interest in hunting. Since 2010 I have had no hunting partners & now I have 2 eager young men in their mid-20s fired up, willing & able to do some of the hard work.

 

It is also more fun to have some comeraderie (sp?) that comes with a small group. We are already talking of doing some exploration of a promising piece of county & state forest near here. It has a lot of mast trees & all 3 of us are planning on squirrel hunting it in the late summer/early fall to scout out the deer & get to know the lay of the land better. There is also talk about hauling my camper down to Yates county for the opening weekend of the SZ deer season.

 

So, you see, it's a 2-way street for me. Not saying that I am doing it for my benefit, but helping youngsters get a good start has many rewards.

[wildcat junkie]

I finally got a chance to load up some 140gr Nosler Ballistuc Tips in the 7mm-08.

As usual they didn't disappoint. I shot 2 separate 3-shot groups that were under 1" @ 100yds. One of the groups was under 3/4" C-C.

Both groups combined covered less than 1 1/2".

[grampy]

Wildcat, I have followed this thread since I received a savage axis in 7mm-08 for christmas. This being my first hunting rifle, I followed your advice and have bought a few boxes of the nosler BT ammo as I don't reload myself. So far, the few times l have shot this set up I'm very impressed with the accuracy.

I have a question about the performance of the 140gr. nosler BT on deer. I have done a bit of research on line and heard mixed reviews. I'm sure this round will kill deer, but would like to hear yours and any other members experience using this round for deer hunting. Never having used it myself, I'm just curious.

[grampy]

Also, my axis doesn't have the accu trigger. Would you advise cutting the stock trigger spring one and a quarter coils or just install a timney trigger?

Thanks for any and all advice!

[wildcat junkie]

Wildcat, I have followed this thread since I received a savage axis in 7mm-08 for christmas. This being my first hunting rifle, I followed your advice and have bought a few boxes of the nosler BT ammo as I don't reload myself. So far, the few times l have shot this set up I'm very impressed with the accuracy.

I have a question about the performance of the 140gr. nosler BT on deer. I have done a bit of research on line and heard mixed reviews. I'm sure this round will kill deer, but would like to hear yours and any other members experience using this round for deer hunting. Never having used it myself, I'm just curious.

Many people confuse failure to place a bullet properly with bullet failure. That is where the mixed reviews for Ballist Tip bullets originates IMO.

Unless Mv exceeds 3100fos, there is no need for a heavily constructed bullet on deer sized game.

From a 22" barrel, factory 140gr 7mm-08 loads are about 2800fps as measured over my chronograph. "Warm" hand loads W/high energy powders will hit 2900fos W/O excessive pressures.

Any deer hit in the heart/lung area, including the shoulder, W/a .284 140gr BT @ similar Mv will die very quickly. Here is a young man's 1st buck taken W/my 7mm-08 140gr BT hand loads out of my M700 Mountain Rifle DBM. Note the exit wound. The deer went only a very short distance W/a copious blood trail that was easy to follow.

Edited March 25, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Also, my axis doesn't have the accu trigger. Would you advise cutting the stock trigger spring one and a quarter coils or just install a timney trigger?

Thanks for any and all advice!

Go Timney. I have them on all of my Mausers. Edited March 25, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[grampy]

That's what I was thinking.

Thanks for your advice!

[Pygmy]

Grampy...I'll tell you my field experience with the 140 grain 7MM ballistic tip.

Regarding the mixed reviews..When the bullet was first introduced ( in the early 80s , if I remember correctly, it was somewhat lightly constructed, and performed more like a varmint bullet than a hunting bullet. Nosler heard the complaints and corrected it by beefing up the jacket.

I started using the 140 Nosler ballistic tip in the early 90s in my .280 Rem. It was very accurate and displayed excellent long range form.

If I remember correctly, over the next 15 years, I used this bullet to kill 10 bull caribou ( 250 to 400 pounds), 1 mule deer buck, one pronghorn, and about 10 whitetails. All but 3 or 4 whitetails were shot with the .280, the rest with the 7mm08.

The Nosler BT performed as well on game as any other cup/core bullet I have used. With proper shot placement, critters died quickly. Most had exit holes..

I think most of the criticism of the BT comes from shooters who are trying to push it at magnum velocities, faster than it is designed for.

For the 7mm08 it would be hard to think of a BETTER deer bullet than the 140 Nosler ballistic tip, albeit there may be several that are as good.

[wildcat junkie]

The Nosler BT performed as well on game as any other cup/core bullet I have used. With proper shot placement, critters died quickly. Most had exit holes..

I think most of the criticism of the BT comes from shooters who are trying to push it at magnum velocities, faster than it is designed for.

For the 7mm08 it would be hard to think of a BETTER deer bullet than the 140 Nosler ballistic tip, albeit there may be several that are as good.

To be fair, I don't think the Nosler BT should be lumped in W/other "cup and core" bullets. The jacket of the Nosler BT is tapered in cross section getting progressively thicker as it nears the base. The base itself is very thick. Even in the unlikely event that the core & jacket were to separate, due to striking heavy bone, the jacket still has quite a bit of mass to continue penetrating.

In that respect, the Nosler BT is far superior to the Hornady SST.

Edited March 26, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[dbHunterNY]

good deal.  way to mentor.

[thphm]

 I am thinking about rebarreling my blueprinted pillow bedded in a H&S stock , M700 short action to a 7mm.-08 . Just happen to know some one that has a nice Pac Nor  SS 22" barrel in stock ready to go in a M700 action ,with the right taper, just would need the head space set.  . Also the right twist rate for a 140 Gr. load.

Handled a few other brands over the weekend  but just like how smooth my 700 feeds and the crisp Timmy trigger is .

That will make a third barrel for this action, no big deal as I have the action wrench and barrel vise already bolted to the work bench ,

[wildcat junkie]

I am thinking about rebarreling my blueprinted pillow bedded in a H&S stock , M700 short action to a 7mm.-08 . Just happen to know some one that has a nice Pac Nor SS 22" barrel in stock ready to go in a M700 action ,with the right taper, just would need the head space set. . Also the right twist rate for a 140 Gr. load.

Handled a few other brands over the weekend but just like how smooth my 700 feeds and the crisp Timmy trigger is .

That will make a third barrel for this action, no big deal as I have the action wrench and barrel vise already bolted to the work bench ,

Whatever the "standard" factory twist is for 7mm-08, so far, every one I've played with, M700 & Savage AXIS II, seemed to shoot well W/140gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. 139gr Hornady SSTs, not so much.

[thphm]

Whatever the "standard" factory twist is for 7mm-08, so far, every one I've played with, M700 & Savage AXIS II, seemed to shoot well W/140gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. 139gr Hornady SSTs, not so much.

 

I have been doing a lot of reading about the 7mm-08 and the 140 BT seems to be a round favored by many.Guess I  will start gathering up dies ect. for that round.

[Pygmy]

My 7mm-08 Rem mountain rifle likes 140 Nosler ballistic tips, but it likes  120 grain Barnes TTSX even better..

 

I get a little over 3000FPS and MOA accuracy with that bullet and Re-15, and it kills deer like lightning.

 

A couple of my friends load the 120 Nosler BT and get similar results.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Pygmy

[thphm]

Many things to consider, first Twist rate of the bbl. most factory bbl.'s are used to shoot a number of different weight factory loaded ammo. Bullet shape and length also come into play , a long tapered bullet might not shoot as well as a almost flat bottomed bullet in some barrels, as how you can seat the bullet , distance from lands and seating depth, amt. of and the type of powder.

The barrel I am considering is not a factory replacement it is an aftermarket bbl. It has the perfect twist for a 140 grain bullet , bullet shape I will find out , and the load for that will have to be worked up.

[Pygmy]

Good luck, OMG....Keep us posted on your results...

 

A few of us "rifle loonies" really enjoy the technical stuff....

[wildcat junkie]

Reloader 17 works well in the 7mm-08 W/the 140gr BT when you work up to lightly compressed loads.

I've been able to get right at 2900fps in a 22" barrel.

Vv N550 is another good "high energy" powder, but it is hard to come by.

The two will achieve nearly identical pressure/Mv in medium capacity cases.

They both also work well in 30/40 Krag W/160gr FTXs (2500fps) & 8x57IS W/200gr spritzers. (2700fps)