Too Many Yote's!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

 

2 hours, 3 Dogs, 3 snowmobiled hunters on 300 acres.  Way too many vermin in some areas of our state and this is one of them for sure!

[Red]

Good job that's a nice haul right there. Looks like done nice sized yotes

[stoneam2006]

Damn....we have them but wish I could get into them like that....nice.....skin and sell or what u do with them?

[hunter49]

  Look like nice size yotes!  Nice job.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Damn....we have them but wish I could get into them like that....nice.....skin and sell or what u do with them?

Those 4 are from last week of 33 dogs taken, They all get skinned and sold between the group.  There will be over 100 taken before winter is over. There are piles of them that get away and run back onto the military base and off limits.

 

These guys run dogs about every day in a 30 mile swath around our farm.

[First-light]

Last year we let guys come in with dogs. They took about 20. They were back last week but I didn't get an update.

 

[thunnus]

Have 2oo acres in Sullivan county. Two square 100 acre parcels. If you post it, don't hold us liable for any accidents, you can have at it w/ coyotes (but spare foxes/bobcats etc).

If you trap beaver, will ask for 1 tanned pelt out of 3

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Have 2oo acres in Sullivan county. Two square 100 acre parcels. If you post it, don't hold us liable for any accidents, you can have at it w/ coyotes (but spare foxes/bobcats etc).

If you trap beaver, will ask for 1 tanned pelt out of 3

I am sure someone on here will take you up on your offer to blast away the yotes this winter. If you have beaver issues you should hook up with one of the guys over on the trapping threads. Someone will work with ya.

[bowtech2]

Have 2oo acres in Sullivan county. Two square 100 acre parcels. If you post it, don't hold us liable for any accidents, you can have at it w/ coyotes (but spare foxes/bobcats etc).

If you trap beaver, will ask for 1 tanned pelt out of 3[/quote

I live in Sullivan county

[Curmudgeon]

The first rule of holes: When you find yourself in one, stop digging.

[thunnus]

Curmudgeon?

Bow tech, please pm me

[Curmudgeon]

Thunnus -

 

All the science says that coyotes evolved to increase reproduction when they are persecuted. This was in response to wolves preying on them. In our world, they react exactly the same way to being hunted. There are always young animals looking for new territories. Older animals - and their family group - establish larger territories and keep the adolescents from moving in and breeding. Killing the older animals opens and fractures territories. The result is, more breeding and no reduction in population. For a century coyotes have been persecuted out west. What has been the result?

 

Read 4 Seasons posts going way back. His relentless persecution has had no positive result. He blames it on Fort Drum, however, it would be no different elsewhere. He will always have too many coyotes. Too many being subjective.

 

Outside the forest preserve, killing coyotes does not help deer. The recent coyote hunting article in the Outdoor News should have been categorized as an opinion piece in making such a claim. Anyone who wants to a quick internet search can find a lot of scientific information on the subject.

[Mr VJP]

Labeling coyote hunting "persecution" is an exercise in Orwellian double speak with questionable motives.

 

Hunting may indeed cause more coyote breeding, but if the original sustainable population is already dominating the landscape, the answer is certainly not less coyote hunting.  The over regulation of trapping methods has also added to the problem of coyote overpopulation in many areas.

 

The only reason coyote hunting doesn't bring the population under control is not enough people hunting coyotes.  The annual take is way below what is needed.  They are not a source of food for those that hunt them, and their pelt values are down, so there is little incentive to hunt them at all.  That's why contests with monetary rewards must be run.  

 

They are an invasive species, vermin and predators that add nothing of value to the land they occupy.  

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thunnus -

 

All the science says that coyotes evolved to increase reproduction when they are persecuted. This was in response to wolves preying on them. In our world, they react exactly the same way to being hunted. There are always young animals looking for new territories. Older animals - and their family group - establish larger territories and keep the adolescents from moving in and breeding. Killing the older animals opens and fractures territories. The result is, more breeding and no reduction in population. For a century coyotes have been persecuted out west. What has been the result?

 

Read 4 Seasons posts going way back. His relentless persecution has had no positive result. He blames it on Fort Drum, however, it would be no different elsewhere. He will always have too many coyotes. Too many being subjective.

 

Outside the forest preserve, killing coyotes does not help deer. The recent coyote hunting article in the Outdoor News should have been categorized as an opinion piece in making such a claim. Anyone who wants to a quick internet search can find a lot of scientific information on the subject.

This is far from being the truth and real life will show you so. Do we have to many because of Drum? You bet ya because they cant be hunted there and they get to live and screw their brains out to make more. Now do we have even close to what we had before we started killing them every givin chance?  Hell No!  If Ft Drum was not here there would be close to none on this landscape. That is a fact because we kill them. If anyone thinks for one second that a heavy coyote population on your property will not kill your deer and ruin your hunting have either never owned property and had the problem or are clueless to the real world. I dont give a rats behind what some white coat tells me what a yote will or wont do by research. The real world showed me that when i got 700 acres loaded with  some of the best deer hunting conditions in the state and had no deer but had packs of yotes on all 4 corners i had a problem. When you sat in a tree stand every night and saw 3 or 4 to 1 on yotes/deer i have a problem. Now after 3 years of blasting the vermin at every chance i see 3 to 4 to 1 still but now its deer over dogs. That my friend is a proven fact!  Do we still have the vermin. You bet ya, had a single track yesterday morning walking my deer fence, Does that bother me? Not really, make me real happy because there was only 1 track meaning 1 animals. 2 years ago that would have been 4-6 running together. Bottom line is if you kill the problem the problem will go away.  An active pack of yotes is not a problem. As far as the saying that if we kill alot of them then they will breed to make more to make up for the loss....They had better get in the sack because they are falling way behind.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[dbHunterNY]

Those 4 are from last week of 33 dogs taken, They all get skinned and sold between the group.  There will be over 100 taken before winter is over. There are piles of them that get away and run back onto the military base and off limits.

 

These guys run dogs about every day in a 30 mile swath around our farm.

 

that's a lot of dogs.  we've got a few groups around here that run dogs for them and get probably around 30 per group of hunters in a good season.  that military base I could see definitely being the yotes saving grace.

[Curmudgeon]

Labeling coyote hunting "persecution" is an exercise in Orwellian double speak with questionable motives.

 

They are an invasive species, vermin and predators that add nothing of value to the land they occupy.  

 

Please note I also labeled wolves killing coyotes "persecution". You only question my motives regarding hunters. Why not wolves? Am I guilty of "Orwellian double speak" for them too?

 

They are not native yet they are filling the niche of wolves that used to be here. As far as calling them "vermin...that add nothing of value to the land", it is time for some ecological literacy. This is not the 19th century.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

that's a lot of dogs.  we've got a few groups around here that run dogs for them and get probably around 30 per group of hunters in a good season.  that military base I could see definitely being the yotes saving grace.

Huge...My 700 is across a road from their 109.000 acre breeding ground. These guys that really run these things are high tech boys with GPS and shock collars. They can tell whenever they run this farm if the dogs are heading to the military base, and thats where they head. When they block off their choice to get on drum the hunt stays on and the snow buggies run them down. Hard for a yote to cross an open, 3 foot of snow covered cornfield when he has a pissed off hunter on 1000cc green machine on his heals.   In those cases its when the Cat chases the Dog!

[Curmudgeon]

VJP -

 

This is assigned reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopredator_release_hypothesis

 

Argue with it if you want but you should at least understand it before doing so.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

VJP -

 

This is assigned reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopredator_release_hypothesis

 

Argue with it if you want but you should at least understand it before doing so.

Not much to argue about when your paper spells it out for ya.

 

 

 

Wolves operate in packs in which each wolf has a specialized role in hunts that would otherwise fail, often against prey much larger than the individual wolves. All wolf subspecies, including dogs anddingos, and the closely related coyote, are menaces to wildlife,livestock, and vermin and are competent defenders

 

Edited January 30, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[Curmudgeon]

4 Seasons -

 

You seem to have missed the point about mesopredators.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

4 Seasons -

 

You seem to have missed the point about mesopredators.

Nah..I get it..Top to Bottom..The way i see it is on these 700 acres there only needs to be one top dog. All new comers will be eliminated.

 

But i would say that if there ever was a place to do up to date research then this would be it. Over on Drum there is a fenced in area called the Cantonment area, They have even found their way onto there with an 7ft fence all around it. Now during hard times they can get into solders garbage and such and live like a California coyote.They are by no means a stupid animal and are a formidable foe.

[jjb4900]

Nah..I get it..Top to Bottom..The way i see it is on these 700 acres there only needs to be one top dog. All new comers will be eliminated.

 

But i would say that if there ever was a place to do up to date research then this would be it. Over on Drum there is a fenced in area called the Cantonment area, They have even found their way onto there with an 7ft fence all around it. Now during hard times they can get into solders garbage and such and live like a California coyote.They are by no means a stupid animal and are a formidable foe.

does Fort Drum allow any hunting at all?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

does Fort Drum allow any hunting at all?

Yes but has lots of rules and permits that most wont deal with. Deer and bear guys will go thru the hoop's!

[jrm]

Thunnus -

 

All the science says that coyotes evolved to increase reproduction when they are persecuted. 

 

In other words, danger makes 'em horny.  

Edited January 30, 2015 by jrm

[Mr VJP]

You can use neutral words like "pressure" or "hunting" or even "harvesting" if you are neutral.  "Persecution" is a negative term with an obvious bias.  Doesn't matter if you attach it to wolves or hunters.

 

Next, Wikipedia is far from what anyone would consider a scientific journal.  And the subject discussed is just a hypothesis.  

 

If you want to look into some real science, with actual data derived over years of collection, study the effects of predator over population, including your mesopredators, caused by the decline in trapping due to anti trapping influence and government regulation based on emotion rather than science.

 

That legislation has created many of the vermin and predator problems we see today.

 

Too often, when special interest groups create problems, they also want to be the ones who get to "solve" the problems they made.  They should just admit they were wrong and leave the problem to experts.