First rifle?

[blackradio]

I'm in shotgun territory here but want to get a cheaper rifle for coyote hunting and for future deer hunting use as I may be getting some property upstate. I guess I'm looking for a .223 or 243 cal round. Single shot is ok. Anything decent under $400?

[Bballhunter11]

Savage edge is a good package for under 400

[Santamour123]

Both are a great coyote round.  But not a good deer round.  However If you are not against a single shot.  You can get and NEF single shot for around $250 in either of these and then send it into them and get any number of caliber barrels for $150.

[Daveboone]

2nd that on Santamour123s opinion. For a camp gun/varmint gun, the .243, .223 may be ok, but I would be looking at almost anything up in the .30 cal. class for a reliable deer round. There are plenty of good rifles out there for under 400, especially if you look in the used rack. Down south the .243 is a popular deer round, but northern deer tend to be MUCH bigger bodied.

[blackradio]

so would a .30-.30 be a good round for both?

[Dinsdale]

Read this;

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/minute-of-angle-moa-accuracy-out-of-the-box/

That TC Axis can be had for $399 with a scope, same barrel as their Icon.

Suggest a 270 Win for overall performance on most things you will encounter. At 200 yd zero you will have about 7" low at 300 and be 1.5" high at 100.

Cheap ammo= you will shoot and practice more. With top quality ammo= anything in N. America short of large bears(maybe Bison, but it has been done)

[Daveboone]

The 30 -30 is certainly a proven deer round, having been around for over 100 years. Most agree though it is a shade on the light side as far as deer rounds The design has been around for a very long time. It will work on coyotes, certainly, but the round is generally considered a relatively short/ medium range round, it being a pretty low pressure package. You would get quite a bit more potential from (as mentioned previously) the .270, .308 or 30-06. These three are probably the big 3 of deer rounds. The 270 is a commercialized wildcat of the '06, and essentially the .308 is a modern rendition of it. All three have very similar terminal balllistics and each has a very loyal following. Myself, I prefer the .308. It is the only of the bunch that will fit in a short action, making for a more compact and light weight gun, without sacrificing performance. In all fairness, the '06 has probably the widest variety of available ammo. lightweight varminting rounds all the way up to 220 grain heavy game rounds. The .270 has a reputation for being very flat shooting, but that generally isnt a concern at NY distances.

[BAR]

Tc axis is a great gun for the money. That being said All these calibers will kill deer. In alot of peoples opinion in cluding mine 223 and 243 is on the light side. I love the .270. It is my favorite round. You can get 100 grain bullets for varmiting, and 150 grain for deer. I really like 130 grain for both. Their is a hole list of gret calibers. 308,30-06, 257 roberts, 7mm-08 are just a few of the standards.

Shot placement is key. You gotta hit em right.

  Happy buying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jasons75]

Not sure of the laws in NY... But I've looking at what this site has...

http://www.budsgunshop.com

[Santamour123]

If you are looking for 1 gun and caliber for both. I would suggest a 308.  Great accuracy a huge bullet selection and fairly flat shooting. Will do both.

[bubba]

I dont understand why it is so generally thought that you need such power to kill a whitetail. Bigger better.  If you want an all around coyote and deer rifle, get a 25-06. You can get 80 grain bullets for coyotes and ranging up to 120 for deer.  I love the comment that a 30-30 is a shade on the light side for deer. I bet more deer are taken with that caliber every year than any other.  I use  a 25-06 and this fall I took a 190 pound 8 point one shot through the vitals with a 115 grain nosler partition. He ran 40 yards and piled up dead.  He may not be as dead as is I had used a 30-06, but none the less he was dead.  I am now using 100 grain bullets to start hunting coyotes. Unless you live near a nuclear power plant and have some mutant deer, yu ownt go wrong for all you mentioned you want to do.  Stop watching the pretend deer hunts on tv and actually read some ballistics and see what a caliber will do. 

[Bballhunter11]

Any of these calibers would never be a mistake to buy. The best caliber would be the one you can shoot the best and feel comfortable that every shot u take will go where its supposed to. Find some rifles that you can take to the range and try before hand and then buy one.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Since you seem fairly new to this I woudl suggest getting a round that you can comfortably shoot---easily find ammo and will do the job.

All the rifles here that are mentioned will do it. I would suggest what you plan to do with the rifle. if it will be a hunting rifle and you will only put 2 to 3 boxes of ammo through it a year between sighting and hunting....probably any will do. If you intend on a lot of range time as well as hunting...check out the ammo prices and make sure the prices ranges are there.  When I got my very first rifle to hunt deer I wanted on e that I could cheaply shoot and that I KNEW would have easy ammo access.  That is why I picked the 30-06. I was shooting a bolt so military surplus ammo is available...hunting rounds can be had at probably every gun shop in North America. Do a little home work and you ca't go wrong.

Good luck

[Dinsdale]

Sent you a PM.

[Santamour123]

Yes realy anything .025 cal and up will work fine.  But, it is like most have said.  You can shoot the biggest gun out there, and if you miss they are still alive.  Get what you feel confortable with.

[reeltime]

I'm in shotgun territory here but want to get a cheaper rifle for coyote hunting and for future deer hunting use as I may be getting some property upstate. I guess I'm looking for a .223 or 243 cal round. Single shot is ok. Anything decent under $400?

I would say the .243 would be a fine choice for now,  later on in life you can always buy

a larger caliber rifle if you feel the .243 is insufficient.  I have shot a few deer with a .243 and never had one take a step. I have also shot a few with a 30-06 and other than the one I shot that was running all of them were drt (dead right there) The one

that was running only went a little over 100 yards.

My stepdad has shot more deer with a .220 swift and .243 than I can even remember,

I don't ever remember him shooting at a deer with either of those calibers and having

him loose a deer. I will say I am not keen on the .220 swift but I will say from what I

saw on lung shots that thing is devastating to the lungs of a deer!

first and foremost you have got to get a gun that FITS you! if it doesn't fit you it will

not be accurate (for you) or comfortable to shoot. This means you have to go to a

gun shop and shoulder some different guns but more importantly with both a lighter

coat on and a heavy winter coat. All those extra layers of clothes CAN make a

difference on how a gun feels and how well you can sight down the barrel. Most states

deer seasons fall in the colder weather climates.  It would be a tough pill to swallow

to practice all summer and be a good shot only to bundle up like a snowman and then

wonder why you missed what should of been a chip shot on a deer.

Once you find one that you like its just personal choice of caliber and action. All my

rifles are bolt actions, a big majority of them are model 70 winchesters, I love that 3

position safety and the smoothness of the winchester bolt actions. 

[blackradio]

Thanks guys! I'll have to check a few out at Dick's or Gander Mountain (I hear they have a good used selection too). I'll really have to consider the price of ammo too. While it will be a hunting rifle, it would be nice to be able to shoot it every now and then with my pals and not break the bank. Is there any caliber around the size I need that's relatively inexpensive compared to others?

[Joe Red]

Also you have to consider the area you are going to be hunting in,swamp area, open field,hardwoods,ect.All that comes into play.Go to a gunsmith or to a good sporting goods store and ask questions and tell them what terraine you are going to be hunting in and what you want to hunt and go from there.Good luck

[WhiteTailBuckDeer]

I use my 30-06 for both. Remington Makes a 55gr accelerator round for varmint hunting.

[jimbo91]

i wouldnt go .223, but i cousin has taken 3 deer with a .243, including a 3 year old ten point. I just bought a savage edge, whatever you do stay away from the remington 770

[blackradio]

I think I'm going to get a savage axis .243. Very common round for coyote here and I hear a lot of people taking deer with them.

[bubba]

A good choice in my opinion. I find it funny guys say a .243 with a 100 grain bullet at 2900 fps is inadequate, but a .257 with  a 100 grain bullet at 3100 is adequate. There is such little difference, it is unnoticable. The deer is not gonna say ouch I got shot with a 100 grain 243, phew I am ok, I am glad it wasnt a 257 roberts or 25-06. Calibers smaller in diameter such as 223 are used in military rifles quite successfully.  There is a trend to use over kill for a white tail.  As with any caliber, shot placement is critical.  The problem is most guys using large caliber rifles think it does not matter where they hit because they have a lot of power behind it.  I took a 190 pound 8 point this fall with my 25-06 with a 115 grain bullet.  He ran 50 yards and fell in a pile. I now take that same rifle and load 100 and 87 grainers for coyotes and it is awesome. I am not advocating for a 25, I am simply pointing out that there is little difference between them, but a lot of guys think my 25 is marginal for a whitetail. I will match it against any supposed deer caliber there is.  If you do your part, the 243 will work well on any whitetail that ever walked, and will devastate any coyote.  A good bullet that shoots well and accurately out of your gun is all you need.  Take out vitals, they will die.  They may not fall in a pile at your feet, but, they will not go far.  Get some good 100 grainers and have a lot of fun shooting it until it shoots well, and go forth and hunt. 

[Mr VJP]

Blackradion. here's an option for you, go to www.gunbroker.com and search for rifles for sale in NY state.  You will see at least a hundred used rifles fro sale by private sellers in NY.  You may locate one within a few miles of your home too.  The deals you can find on there are always far better than you will see at a dealer or any big store like Dick's.

You can look at any caliber from .243 up to .30-06 if you want a deer/varmint combo rifle.  You may even find a good price on another great round in an affordable rifle.  The .260 Remington.

    Ever since the .308's introduction, it has been a favorite parent case for wild-cat cartridges, and  the "6.5mm-08" has been around in custom rifles for decades.  In 1997, due to Jim Carmichel's  efforts, Remington commercialized the .308 case necked to 6.5 mm in the .260 Remington, intended as  a flat-shooting, low-recoil short-action cartridge for medium game.  The .260 Remington can be  thought of as the American version of the 6.5x55 Swede, but it fits in a short action and can be  loaded to 2.800 inches.       

The .260 Remington cartridge is gaining favor with many long-range shooters for the simple reason  that it slings the long, slim, high-BC 6.5mm bullets at respectable velocity.  It duplicates or beats  the .300 Winchester Magnum's trajectory with less recoil than .308.

Think of it as a .243 on steroids!  It is just a good all around cartridge and perfect for a deer/coyote gun.

[bubba]

I agree the 260 is a swet caliber. However finding affordable ammo at least in my area is tough.

[Mr VJP]

Return to the internet and buy online when you find good prices and stock up.  Then get an inexpensive reloading set and all the components you need to develop two good loads.  One for deer and one for coyote.  A man with one rifle, and his own loads, used all the time for such specific hunting, can't help but become very good at it.