9 Year Old Boy Shot in Orange County

[Elmo]

"i simply stated living with that on your concous is pretty bad, you know..."

Geno, you're under the assumption that everyone has a conscience as morally correct as yours.  Like someone had previous stated, the shooter might be the kind of jerk that probably thinks he didn't do anything wrong and it was the kids fault.

[Geno C]

"i simply stated living with that on your concous is pretty bad, you know..."

Geno, you're under the assumption that everyone has a conscience as morally correct as yours.  Like someone had previous stated, the shooter might be the kind of jerk that probably thinks he didn't do anything wrong and it was the kids fault.

very true, didnt look at it like that...

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I heard there's a new gun which requires you to blow into the trigger before you fire it.

[fasteddie]

I heard there's a new gun which requires you to blow into the trigger before you fire it.

Is it a CrossGun ? ......

[Geno C]

I heard there's a new gun which requires you to blow into the trigger before you fire it.

Is it a CrossGun ? ......

hmmm possible... lol

[ELMER J. FUDD]

YUP. Comes with a free glass pack muffler!

[Warren]

This is a quote from the local paper - The Times Herald Record -   

"MONTGOMERY — A 9-year-old boy was airlifted to the hospital in serious condition after he was shot in the stomach while helping drive deer toward a hunter, Town of Montgomery police said."

It has always been my understanding that NY considers driving deer as hunting. You need a license to hunt. Therefore, a 9 year old is not allowed to help drive deer.

Hear is a qoute from the DEC regulations about when you tag out --

After you have used your last deer tag, you may help others hunt

deer. You may not carry a firearm or bow, and you must have your

hunting license. 

It's one thing to bring a youngster along to sit with you on a stand but to have him out driving deer is very foolish and possibly illegal.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the story read to me like he was walking with the step father when it happened. even if this was during a drive i don't see it as illegal. if he was off on his own walking I might agree...and also very stupid. but i didn't read that

[Warren]

Here is a link to the article

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101212/NEWS/12120333

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Here is a link to the article

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101212/NEWS/12120333

This was the story I saw.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=7838864

Just didn't want a bad situation for the family made worse by accusations that what the step fater was doing was illegal. I would think that within a few yards is within direct control. You made it sound like they had him out wandering unsupervised in teh woods

[backstrapper]

I'm not a lawyer but I would think, while not a bright idea, it isn't illegal.  He wasn't carrying a gun so I don't think it would be considered hunting.  Just a guess though.  On a side note a few posts down there is a fundraiser for the little guy and his family. 

[bubba]

I'm not a lawyer but I would think, while not a bright idea, it isn't illegal.  He wasn't carrying a gun so I don't think it would be considered hunting.  Just a guess though.  On a side note a few posts down there is a fundraiser for the little guy and his family.

Just because he wasnt carrying a gun does not mean he was not hunting. Open the reg guide and read the definition of hunting.  I quote from page 18 of the guide 

To Hunt: means to persue, shoot,kill, or capture (other than trap) wild life and includes all lesser acts that disturb or worry wildlife whether or not they result in taking.  Hunting also includes all acts that assist another person in taking wildlife. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

so that would include sitting at the base of a tree and tugging on your fathers pant leg to say "Dad there is one over there"?

[backstrapper]

Hopefully the DEC won't view a 10 year walking in the woods(driving) as a hunter and visit him in the hospital to give him his fines.  Wow I didn't realize how many of my buddies young children should be on the 'dark night' list for sitting next to them in the stand or on the ground etc.... by this definition if the kid hands dad the binoculars or a thermos (to keep him awake) then he/she is 'assisting in the taking of game'.  Of all the things that were done incorrectly and the fact the child was injured I am suprised this point was even brought up.  Just my.02

[WNYBuckHunter]

Theres a difference between having your kid sit or walk with you and having them as a driver on a deer drive. If they are acting as a driver, they are assisting. If they are looking around with binos in a stand or blind, they are not assisting.

[backstrapper]

Hard to type sarcasm in a thread.  Of course there is a difference BUT it's a 10 year old kid, he wasn't hunting and to imply that he should be considered a hunter to me is silly.  If we are going by the letter of the law ANY assistance should be deemed illegal and as silly as helping scope a deer is too you, claiming a 10 year old is hunting by being a driver is that silly to me.  Again, just my opinion and I hope guys are spending 1/10 of the time simply writing a donation to the family of this hurt child as they are debating/typing if he was a hunter or not.  Just saying ;D

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hard to type sarcasm in a thread.  Of course there is a difference BUT it's a 10 year old kid, he wasn't hunting and to imply that he should be considered a hunter to me is silly.  If we are going by the letter of the law ANY assistance should be deemed illegal and as silly as helping scope a deer is too you, claiming a 10 year old is hunting by being a driver is that silly to me.  Again, just my opinion and I hope guys are spending 1/10 of the time simply writing a donation to the family of this hurt child as they are debating/typing if he was a hunter or not.  Just saying ;D

Was the kid walking through the woods in a direction toward stationed shooters? Yes. Was he wearing orange (which he removed and kept driving) so he could be seen during the drive? Yes. Was he walking right next to his father or other guardian? Apparently not. Sounds a heck of alot like participating in a deer drive to me, which is classified as hunting.

If he had been walking right next to his father, then I could see it as him tagging along and not actually driving the deer. Now ask me if I think its a good idea to let a kid participate in a deer drive to begin with. 

[RPIBuckHunter]

I feel like we're drifting a little from the main point here...

Was the boy doing something illegal (Participating in a drive): Maybe.

Legality not withstanding, was it a stupid decision of the father/guardian to allow the boy to aide in the driving of deer?  Probably.

BUT, that is still no excuse for someone, especially someone of the same party, to mistake the boy for a deer.  As nyantler wrote on a previous page:

If you were walking in the woods with a fur coat and antlers tied to your head... I still wouldn't mistake you for a deer.

[/size]

[/size]My concern is not that the boy may have been doing something illegal; my concern is that a man who can mistake a 9-year-old boy for deer is out there with a loaded gun somewhere...

[WNYBuckHunter]

We were discussing whether or not the kid was hunting. Its a perfectly valid question within the discussion. I agree, how the heck do you mistake a person for a deer?

[backstrapper]

For a stressed out college kid you put it into perspective a heck of lot better then this relaxed 40 year old did!!! 

Well put man!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wny...gotta disagree with you...the article says within a few yards of...I think an uncle...that is 6 to 9 feet...come on...participating in a drive?

[RPIBuckHunter]

We were discussing whether or not the kid was hunting. Its a perfectly valid question within the discussion. I agree, how the heck do you mistake a person for a deer?

Perhaps.  But the fact that we are here having a long discussion about the legality of the boy's actions proves that the law is either poorly written or ambiguous, and probably both.  I'm sure that the boy's father/step father/whoever had no intent of breaking the law.

I see people hiking all the time while I'm out hunting.  Sometimes, they bring their kids.  Most of the time, they aren't wearing orange.  My point is, it doesn't matter what they are doing out in the woods.  Don't mistake people for deer.

[Ron]

Heres what i know. David was walking "pushing deer" along side his uncle, his step father was approximatly 100yards away. In the mean time while David and his uncle were pushing the thick patch of brush the spotter up ahead see's several doe's running out of the thick brush. Not sure why he dont shoot at the deer at this point but im assuming he either didn't have a shot or no doe permit. I didn't ask .At this same time the doe's are running out of the thick brush past the shooter David gets caught up and tangled in the thickets, he now is down on all fours trying to get out of this thicket and when he finally gets to his feet he is all sweated up and uncomfortable due to all the clothing he has on " 2 heavy coats" . With his uncle only yards away David removes his orange hat and starts to remove some of the extra clothing . Remember the spotter "shooter " is watching deer running from this patch of brush just ahead of them at this very moment and is looking into this brush for more deer. BOOM!!! 270 win trough Davids guts. It all happen that fast. Davids father 100 yards away heard the shot then the most dreadful screams he ever heard and ran to his assistance. A 3rd person who was participating in the drive was actually close enough to see the bullet hit David in the stomach. Davids step father has been charged with endangerment, the shooter, the last i new he is were he deserve "jail,"David, he is in the hospital recovering from surgery with a new bag on his side, the mother and Davids 2 younger siblings are in total emotional and financial distress and need our help and support. We can all look at this terrible accident and possibly put blame on someone other then the shooter but right now lets think of David and help him out. Thanks Ron

[arrow nocker]

put the step father in jail.If you put your child in their car seat do you not make sure the shoulder straps are on your kid?I mean come on.If the kid was driving,hunting,chilling,learning or whatever.The FATHER is the kids GUARDIAN!!!!!!I have step kids and they are my responsibility.My daughter always likes to pull her shoulder staps off when i am parked for a bit and forgets to put them back on when i start to drive.It is my responsibilty as a parent or guardian to make sure she has them on and be safe!!!!I race cars and she has seen me wreck so she knows how important it is to have them on.But she is 6.She don't think like a grown up.

My 10 year old son does every thing i do.I am his role model.If i walk through the woods and act like a slob hunter and don't practice safety....He will do the same thing.I have to have him at my side and explain every move.

When i take my little ones into the wood.....I don't expect to see much deer.They are always excited but dissapointed.They expect to see way more.They are over excited at every sound.Move every second.And whisper every three.After 45 minuits are ready to go home or take a nap.OHHH...GOTTA LOVE HUNTING WITH THE KIDS.This is the age i will never forget.This is when i make the biggest example!!!

The father wasn't doing his job.I am sorry.If he was the shooter would have never shot that directon.Putting your responsibility into harms way is foolish!!!!!No excuses!!!

Even though the shooter should have known what he was shooting at.That kid shouldv'e been glowing just like his guardian and right at his side so he could learn to not do that when he was old enough to be on his own.

[RPIBuckHunter]

Ron, thank you very much for providing these details.  However, this just proves the point that we all suspected, the shooter shot at motion and sound rather than having positive target identification.  The shooter is very lucky it did not turn out much, much worse.

Of course, I agree absolutely with your last point.  My best wishes to David for a speedy recovery.