Disappointed with Primos

[phade]

I run around 20% too. And 8 cams is a down time for me, lol.

 

I find if a cam runs out of the gates well and stays good for a few months, it'll end up lasting a while I tend to find failures happen pretty quickly, or you end up getting your money's worth. I have much fewer cams start to go bad between 6 mos. and 2 yrs. unless something happens to it (leaks from case warping, etc.).

Edited March 18, 2015 by phade

[Doc]

What I expect is that a product will perform the duties advertised longer than just a year or two. If there are things that wear out or burn out quicker than that then a little more time on the drawing board is in order. There is absolutely no excuse for the kind of performance records being posted in this thread ..... none at all..... especially at the price they are asking for these things.

[stubby68]

Wow I can't believe all the bad luck with cams. I have 5 cams all are moultrie. got first 3 in 2010 they are I35 the other are about 2 years old I believe they are a5. They are out year round the most they have ever been down and in the house is 6 weeks. I only ever had one problem with them, one of the i35 had a display screen stop working after about 4 years called moultrie and they had me send it in through fedex at there cost the put new display in it and sent it back. No cost to me at all. I get good pics and great battery life with these. Like I said they are out year round. I get 300 to 800 pics a week  with them. I use tow sets of batteries a year in each cam and have never checked on the and found batteries dead. From the sounds of things I am glad I went moultrie.

 

        I agree with Doc spend $100 ona cam I expect it to last longer then a few months to a year. If that is all the performance I had gotten out of my first cams I would never have bought any more. Yea my cams were cheep but they do what I want with no problems. Wow a year and junk would be unexceptable.

[Five Seasons]

i wonder if we expect too much from electronics we put out in the woods through all sorts of crazy weather. Not saying a company shouldn't stand behind it's product, but remember what it is you're asking for. There's also a reason some cost >$300 and some are under $100.

[phade]

What I expect is that a product will perform the duties advertised longer than just a year or two. If there are things that wear out or burn out quicker than that then a little more time on the drawing board is in order. There is absolutely no excuse for the kind of performance records being posted in this thread ..... none at all..... especially at the price they are asking for these things.

 

Sounds like there is room in the market for that kind of brillance. You'd think that a company like Vista - which is one of the highest ranked Fortune companies in America - would know they could make money if it were in their grasp to do so. Electronics are borderline planned obsolesence, and that's just cell phones, TVs, iPads, etc. None of them sit outside on a tree when it is -10 degrees and we're inside on the couch by the fire using the iPad.

 

Vista Outdoors - just a tiny portion of that ownership - had sales revenue of $2.3B last year. Their organic growth year over year is 20% since 2003. That kind of performance is not only amazing, but envious. They know how to design and sell products. You should write them and tell them that it is unacceptable - they might hire you full-time to show them the light.

 

The expectation that a $100 product with electronic and moving parts should last more than a year or two outside in the elements is a bit of a mismatch in my book.

[phade]

i wonder if we expect too much from electronics we put out in the woods through all sorts of crazy weather. Not saying a company shouldn't stand behind it's product, but remember what it is you're asking for. There's also a reason some cost >$300 and some are under $100.

 

Precisely. Most cams that cost $100 do not have coated internals and only some have sealed compartments to hold the internals. The Reconyx-like cams...coated internals. And, guess what...that is why the cam is so expensive.

[steve863]

People are paying $100 or more per month for phone/internet/TV.  The various services are probably charging people way MORE than they should for this, but really what can anyone expect from a $100 camera that as others have said is being exposed to the elements for months at a time?  Honestly you won't get anything of quality for that kind of chump change.  Shouldn't even begin to expect that it will last very long really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BizCT]

I have 2 cheap WGI cams and they each are still working. I've had them for like 3-4 years

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc]

i wonder if we expect too much from electronics we put out in the woods through all sorts of crazy weather. Not saying a company shouldn't stand behind it's product, but remember what it is you're asking for. There's also a reason some cost >$300 and some are under $100.

Sorry, I really can't  (or won't) make excuses for products that are advertised for use in all extremes of weather, and then don't live up to that expectation. If they are not weather-proof, then they shouldn't be advertised as being used in the outdoors. I know that people look at $100 or $200 as mere change these days, but I don't. And when I spend that kind of money, I expect that the product purchased will perform as stated. It's a shame that industry has beaten us down to the point where our expectations of products is so low.

[phade]

Sorry, I really can't  (or won't) make excuses for products that are advertised for use in all extremes of weather, and then don't live up to that expectation. If they are not weather-proof, then they shouldn't be advertised as being used in the outdoors. I know that people look at $100 or $200 as mere change these days, but I don't. And when I spend that kind of money, I expect that the product purchased will perform as stated. It's a shame that industry has beaten us down to the point where our expectations of products is so low.

 

Save for regulated industries, the consumer sets the expectation. Thats business 101. Customers will not buy a product if it doesn't match expectations long-term.

 

I think everyone wants the most for their dollar. The problem with that is there are limits from time to time as to how far $100 will go. That $100 cam ten years ago would have also cost you $7 every 24 pictures and a trip to the photo store. Nothing like chomping at the bit to see the pics to find one doe and 23 pictures of a squirrel, reeds blowing, and maybe a coon. Certainly a long ways from that, even if the cam only runs two years - in the end you are way ahead of processing costs. I have a black 60 that probably has 30k photos snapped, and that's a drop in the bucket. THe poor film cams probably would have crapped out by then due to mechanical failure.

Edited March 18, 2015 by phade

[steve863]

I would agree that they shouldn't advertise these products to work outdoors if they can't, but there are and always have been untruthful claims by sellers.  Most definitely in the hunting world.  How about all the game calls, buck lures, Walker game ears, etc. that claim to work like magic?  They've been selling this stuff for years and they are still suckering people into buying it.  I would put game cameras in the same category.  You buy at your own risk with a high probability of failure.  And with game cameras if it don't fail it will probably get stolen, so there isn't much going for it whichever way you slice it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fasteddie]

I tend to look at the Camera reviews when they are available . It irks me to see several 5 , 4 , and 3 stars and then see a few 1 stars . What the heck ! Are some folks getting lemons or don't they know how to program / operate a trail cam . Phade seems the most knowledgeable person on the site when it comes to cameras so I would take his advice over any of the reviews .

[Doc]

I still can't accept products that do not reliably do what they are advertising that they do, but then that's just me. And I do not determine value and expectations based on history of products that have since gone extinct .... lol. Each current expenditure is competing with other current technologies and I fully expect improvements with each generation in terms of cost and quality and longevity. 

 

I do have a Cuddeback white-flash that is into it's third year and still going strong. This is actually the 2nd Cuddeback that I have owned, but the first one was stolen before it's 2nd year had concluded, but was taking great pics up to that point (through all the same rigors of weather extremes that these others cameras crapped out in). That tells me that there is nothing inherently impossible in terms of today's trail cam technology. These two cameras and one of my Bushnell's lived up to their advertising claims as I should be able to expect.

 

No excuses accepted!

[phade]

I still can't accept products that do not reliably do what they are advertising that they do, but then that's just me. And I do not determine value and expectations based on history of products that have since gone extinct .... lol. Each current expenditure is competing with other current technologies and I fully expect improvements with each generation in terms of cost and quality and longevity. 

 

I do have a Cuddeback white-flash that is into it's third year and still going strong. This is actually the 2nd Cuddeback that I have owned, but the first one was stolen before it's 2nd year had concluded, but was taking great pics up to that point (through all the same rigors of weather extremes that these others cameras crapped out in). That tells me that there is nothing inherently impossible in terms of today's trail cam technology. These two cameras and one of my Bushnell's lived up to their advertising claims as I should be able to expect.

 

No excuses accepted!

 

If you think Cuddeback has reliability reputation...phew. They got thrashed a few years back because their reliability fell like a rock AND service went down the tubes. The new e/c class cams are the first to really turn the tide of several years of crummy performance. For every person who can claim X manufacturer is good, there is another person who can claim the same cam model was crap for them. Bushnell aslo had a major issue with the 2010 trophy cams - they went from a strong cam to one of the worst model year to model year.

 

Part of the quality factor is that most every cam model made in China has times where the production runs stop, and a replacement part is entered into the equation. If you have two of the same cam models from different batch numbers, chances are there is a component that is different - it might be similar, it might not be.

 

Then you throw into the mix that many of the different model cams are made on the same factory line...stealth and moultrie are on the same line this year I believe. How can one have quality and the other not?

 

Look at Reconyx - they promised a cam that they ultimately delivered nearly 2 years after they promised it to be delivered (ultrafire). Everyone said "that is great, that is refreshing to see them hold a cam back to get it right." Heck, a week after it was released consumers were beating Reconynx's door down because of all the cam's under-performances. There's a reason why the HC500 and HC600 are still being made and sold by Reconyx. And, those cams are not $100...they are the equivalent of strapping FIVE $100 bills to the tree. And they still can't make they do what they say they will. So who can? Someone with lofty expectations, that is who. Haven't seen it done yet.

 

The real differentiator is the service. If the cam craps out within warranty, the service should be there to stand up to it. Outside of warranty, take the nice guy approach and you might get lucky. Sometimes you don't.

 

So, no excuses. If you went to a trail cam enthusiast forum and said Cuddeback has proven me reliable, you'll get the "want to buy me a lotto ticket?" response from forum members. The end point is that its a crapshoot because consumers expect it, despite complaints, and they go buy more. No company is forcing them to buy the cams and hunters got bucks well before the advent of cams. Consumers just set the bar for expectations - not companies. If durability was that big of an issue, the trail cam market wouldn't be growing like it is because the money wouldn't be there.

 

Edited March 18, 2015 by phade

[Five Seasons]

Precisely. Most cams that cost $100 do not have coated internals and only some have sealed compartments to hold the internals. The Reconyx-like cams...coated internals. And, guess what...that is why the cam is so expensive.

I used to work for a company that made outdoor wireless equipment. They were housed in aluminum cases, coated and rugged components and cost almost $2k. So now we add a camera and expect more for less?

[Five Seasons]

Save for regulated industries, the consumer sets the expectation. Thats business 101. Customers will not buy a product if it doesn't match expectations long-term.

.

The average Joe likes the trail cam idea. Walks into the store and doesn't want to pay the same price for a can he paid for his rifle and picks up the cheapo. Then he's mad at what he gets. So they will keep selling.

[Doc]

If you think Cuddeback has reliability reputation...phew. They got thrashed a few years back because their reliability fell like a rock AND service went down the tubes. The new e/c class cams are the first to really turn the tide of several years of crummy performance. For every person who can claim X manufacturer is good, there is another person who can claim the same cam model was crap for them. Bushnell aslo had a major issue with the 2010 trophy cams - they went from a strong cam to one of the worst model year to model year.

 

Part of the quality factor is that most every cam model made in China has times where the production runs stop, and a replacement part is entered into the equation. If you have two of the same cam models from different batch numbers, chances are there is a component that is different - it might be similar, it might not be.

 

Then you throw into the mix that many of the different model cams are made on the same factory line...stealth and moultrie are on the same line this year I believe. How can one have quality and the other not?

 

Look at Reconyx - they promised a cam that they ultimately delivered nearly 2 years after they promised it to be delivered (ultrafire). Everyone said "that is great, that is refreshing to see them hold a cam back to get it right." Heck, a week after it was released consumers were beating Reconynx's door down because of all the cam's under-performances. There's a reason why the HC500 and HC600 are still being made and sold by Reconyx. And, those cams are not $100...they are the equivalent of strapping FIVE $100 bills to the tree. And they still can't make they do what they say they will. So who can? Someone with lofty expectations, that is who. Haven't seen it done yet.

 

The real differentiator is the service. If the cam craps out within warranty, the service should be there to stand up to it. Outside of warranty, take the nice guy approach and you might get lucky. Sometimes you don't.

 

So, no excuses. If you went to a trail cam enthusiast forum and said Cuddeback has proven me reliable, you'll get the "want to buy me a lotto ticket?" response from forum members. The end point is that its a crapshoot because consumers expect it, despite complaints, and they go buy more. No company is forcing them to buy the cams and hunters got bucks well before the advent of cams. Consumers just set the bar for expectations - not companies. If durability was that big of an issue, the trail cam market wouldn't be growing like it is because the money wouldn't be there.

No, I am not in the business of endorsing any brand, I am simply pointing out that there is no inherent reason that trail cams cannot be made reliable, and affordable. And I know that because I have lucked out and found a couple. And I have a few (damned few) that show that just because they are used outdoors in a hostile environment does not mean that we have to be satisfied with inferior design. So people can make excuses for poor design all they want, but I'm not accepting any of that.

 

A word about "service". Yes companies should stand behind their products. But no one should make their claim to fame out of, " Oh yes our products are crap, but our service is great ..... until you get sick of returning them".

[Doc]

The average Joe likes the trail cam idea. Walks into the store and doesn't want to pay the same price for a cam he paid for his rifle and picks up the cheapo. Then he's mad at what he gets. So they will keep selling.

Lol ...but they will not keep selling to me. I am feeling very foolish for buying as many of these things as I have and accepting, like many, the crap they are peddling. Yeah, I like the trail cam idea too, but eventually, you have to begin to feel like a fool, when you realize the reliability and durability shortfalls of the garbage they are selling.

 

 

[phade]

Lol ...but they will not keep selling to me. I am feeling very foolish for buying as many of these things as I have and accepting, like many, the crap they are peddling. Yeah, I like the trail cam idea too, but eventually, you have to begin to feel like a fool, when you realize the reliability and durability shortfalls of the garbage they are selling.

You may be part of a very small minority then because there is an inherent reason, its not possible yet en masse. Because, the cam market is growing and consumers are proving that uour viewpoint is not as widely held as you would believe. While consumers may believe they want a 100 dollar cam that lasts years and years, it is not preventing them from buying. The technology/logisticsanufacturing base simply isnt there yet. That meams client satisfaction is higher than the resistance of the client base toward quality.

Just because you have a few that last a very long time doesnt meam it is possible at this point and time to have a higher product lifespan for a much higher percentage of the products. Alot of factors go into it, including you, as to how long the cams live. Maybe the cams that failed were (speaking in generality) your fault, ever think of that? Ever bring a cam in cam from the outside and leave the cam closed or battery door shut? That can force condensation into the cam through pressurization.

Even dedicated homebrewers have problems with their cams. Know what their angle is with them? Better quality photos, but surprisingly not longer product life, rather they tout the ability to repair the cam in-house. Even they expect to have the cams break, with parts 20 to 30x more expensive/higher quality.

If a company could make a cam with very very low return rates, other companies would go under quickly. Very quickly. Nobody can do that right now.

Edited March 19, 2015 by phade

[Five Seasons]

Lol ...but they will not keep selling to me. I am feeling very foolish for buying as many of these things as I have and accepting, like many, the crap they are peddling. Yeah, I like the trail cam idea too, but eventually, you have to begin to feel like a fool, when you realize the reliability and durability shortfalls of the garbage they are selling.

 

and I've done the same. I've decided to go with less cams but use better quality brands and models I trust than to put more cams out that i can't trust. But there's a sucker born every minute and primos will keep making their money.

 

In a hunting store near you in a shopping cart:

 

bag of B&J corn

cheap primos cam

ozonics

1/2 dozen garments from scent lock

redneck blind

Edited March 19, 2015 by Belo