Tim McGraw to Headline Anti-Gun Concert in Connecticut

[Mr VJP]

Quote "I ask the question because many of you good ole' boys seem to not care that the rusted out silverado with dirty ball cap wearing guy has a gun in his truck.

 

But should it be a new cadillac with a black guy in a hoodie or arab looking person I bet you react differently.

 

What you all fail to see is that your version of the world no longer exists. If you're not going to introduce some level of gun control, then the guy taking his kid rabbit hunting is no different than the guy intending to do harm. A gun in the truck, is a gun in the truck. Guns are not evil, but some who use them are.

 

Your simple refusal to say "hey guns shouldn't be around near schools" is just bafeling because you live in these little small rural towns and don't have a freaking clue of what going on in the world other than what you read about online."

 

So because some people are evil, all people must be controlled. Why don't we try to control the evil people and leave the good people alone? Gun free zones are nothing more than self defense free zones.

"The government may not descend to the evil of preventive law. The government cannot treat men as guilty until they have proven themselves to be, for the moment, innocent. No law can require the individual to prove that he won't violate another's rights, in the absence of evidence that he is going to.

But this is precisely what gun control laws do. Gun control laws use force against the individual in the absence of any specific evidence that he is about to commit a crime. They say to the rational, responsible gun owner: you may not have or carry a gun because others have used them irrationally or irresponsibly.

Thus, preventive law sacrifices the rational and responsible to the irrational and irresponsible. This is unjust and intolerable. The government may coercively intervene only when there is an objective threat that someone is going to use force. ... Statistics about how often gun-related crimes occur in the population is no evidence against you. That's collectivist thinking. The choices made by others are irrelevant to the choices that you will make. ... The government may respond only to specific threats, objectively evident.

It has no right to initiate force against the innocent.

And a gun owner is innocent until specific evidence arises that he is threatening to initiate force. Laws prohibiting or regulating guns across the board represent the evil of preventive law and should be abolished."

--columnist Harry Binswanger

Edited April 22, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Five Seasons]

I wont disagree that I haven't stuck my foot in my mouth a time or 2. I've learned a lot here and that's why I stick around. But, maybe I'm blind to it, so please help me understand where I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here? I've lived in 3 different major cities, different states and traveled the world. It has taught me that we're all different. What is acceptable in Horseheads, NY is not in Jersey City. Gun laws are generally federal and State until a governor feels he's above the constitution. So with that in mind, I believe we need some common sense gun laws and unfortunately both sides of the fight take it to the extreme. Evil black guns vs. No control at all. And simply put, I don't believe some of the folks here when they say they wouldn't think twice about the urban or arab with the gun.

[steve863]

Yep, because all of us that live in rural areas are just a bunch of slack jawed mouth breathers, right?

 

 

No, I was not saying that.  But I have heard with my own ears some attitudes that rural people have.  Not saying they all have these attitudes or that these attitudes are all necessarily wrong, but from my personal experience rural people are considerably less likely to be accepting of people that may look or act different than what they are used to seeing in their own home towns.  I'm sure there are people in big cities that have such attitudes also, but in general in a big city you are elbow to elbow with ALL sorts of people.  White, black, foreign born, gay, you name it.  You better be able to live around and accept these people for what they are or you will live a depressing and miserable life.  People in the rural areas don't need to accept such things since they don't see these type of people on an every day basis, thus they are generally less likely to.

Edited April 22, 2015 by steve863

[Mr VJP]

Insight: "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." —American writer Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

[steve863]

I honestly don't care what others may think, but I for one am happy that schools are NO guns zones.  Yeah, unfortunately there have been these incidents where innocent kids and teachers get murdered and unfortunately it happens too often, but I sure as hell don't want my kid being taught by teachers with guns strapped to their hips either.  That right there is NOT the alternative for me.  Having an armed guard in a school I have NO trouble with, but that is as far as I want guns in school to go.  Many of you here are gun nuts who can't see passed a gun barrel, but I can.  This world and this country shouldn't be about who has the quicker draw.  You guys think that the guns are not the problem, but obviously guns are being used to cause many of these problems and it sure makes things easier to create mayhem WITH a gun than without one.  The only solution you guys can come up with is to put MORE guns into the hands of people to combat this problem.  What real hope is there left for this society?  Not much in my honest opinion.

 

 

 

 

[jjb4900]

guns aren't the problem or the solution....it's much deeper than that.

[steve863]

Insight: "The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be controlled, and those who have no such desire." —American writer Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)

 

 

 

Yeah, and those who have no desire to be controlled should probably blast off and go live on the moon, because you WON'T find a place on this globe where you won't have to abide to someone else's rules.   That's my "Insight" for you.

 

 

Someone who tells it like it is; steve863 (1963-Hell awaits me somewhere down the road!)

[Huntscreek]

After all these years they still don't get it. They would be better off drawing attention to the real problem,with mental health awareness concert. As bad as it was the killing of Children if only one good guy with a gun could of saved lives. The 1st murder victim was Lanzers mother, if she would of gotten him help early on they all may be alive. The President used these people and twisted facts that Guns are bad, and our so called Governor did the same with safe act. They have not learned on darn thing, A Mentally ill person killed those Victims that day in Newtown. Tim McGraw knows this is an Anti-Gun Money maker concert, your ether with us or against us.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

. If you're not going to introduce some level of gun control, then the guy taking his kid rabbit hunting is no different than the guy intending to do harm.

And yet again, you prove that YOU are the problem. Passing all the gun control you want wont do squat to avoid the latter. You don't have to live in a big city or be Mr. Big World Traveler and Mr. Culture to see that. You just need to have a basic understanding that bad people with a purpose to do bad things, will. Laws won't stop them.  

 

What law would have stopped Sandy Hook? Aurora? Columbine? Fort Hood? Virginia Tech? Look at the Webster Christmas Eve Shooting. We had laws that he couldn't own a gun. We had laws against straw purchasing a gun for him. We had laws against shooting and even killing another person in the manner he did. Even have laws against Arson. How did those laws stop him?

[jjb4900]

all the laws in the world, no matter what the issue, won't stop bad people from doing bad things............I bet drunk drivers kill more people every year than guns...They only make the local paper for a day or two and then fade away.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't believe some of the folks here when they say they wouldn't think twice about the urban or arab with the gun.

What is an "urban"

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 You guys think that the guns are not the problem, but obviously guns are being used to cause many of these problems and it sure makes things easier to create mayhem WITH a gun than without one.  The only solution you guys can come up with is to put MORE guns into the hands of people to combat this problem.  What real hope is there left for this society?  Not much in my honest opinion.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Didn't take very much effort for him. Should we ban pressure cookers too? It blows my mind that you guys think a law is gonna make things all better.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Belo and Steve.

 

Do you guys lock you homes and cars or just put up a sign that says "Private Property, Keep Out"?

[steve863]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Didn't take very much effort for him. Should we ban pressure cookers too? It blows my mind that you guys think a law is gonna make things all better.

 

 

Come on guys, guns are the weapons of choice in murders in this country and we ALL know it.  They are efficient killers and easily obtainable in this country, thus our murder rate is what it is compared to countries where they are not as easy to get.  These comparisons to pressure cookers and cars is quite silly.  Sure, my pillow can kill someone too, so why don't more people use that?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Come on guys, guns are the weapons of choice in murders in this country and we ALL know it.  They are efficient killers and easily obtainable in this country, thus our murder rate is what it is compared to countries where they are not as easy to get.  These comparisons to pressure cookers and cars is quite silly.  Sure, my pillow can kill someone too, so why don't more people use that?

But the laws aren't going to stop anyone "and we ALL know it". That is the entire point. It is feel good hogwash that only impact the law abiding.

[Five Seasons]

And yet again, you prove that YOU are the problem. Passing all the gun control you want wont do squat to avoid the latter. You don't have to live in a big city or be Mr. Big World Traveler and Mr. Culture to see that. You just need to have a basic understanding that bad people with a purpose to do bad things, will. Laws won't stop them.  

 

What law would have stopped Sandy Hook? Aurora? Columbine? Fort Hood? Virginia Tech? Look at the Webster Christmas Eve Shooting. We had laws that he couldn't own a gun. We had laws against straw purchasing a gun for him. We had laws against shooting and even killing another person in the manner he did. Even have laws against Arson. How did those laws stop him?

 

yep I'm the problem

 

If the mother of the sandy hook shooter locked her guns up that would have helped wouldn't it? If he had proper mental health care that might have helped right? this whole thread started with awareness and training and not laws. So i'm not sure why you're ranting on laws.

 

I work in safety, and it's common knowledge that we know you cant prevent all accidents and you can't idiot proof stuff. I never once asked for more laws, but I did ask if you were all comfortable with guns in a school parking lot. So stop pretending like your fellow gun owner who left the state because of the repressive government is asking for more laws and regulations. I'm just stating that common sense laws already in place like background checks and gun free zones do not hurt anyone.

 

In all of Mr VJPs rant, I never once saw a solution to gun violence in schools. Just ranting and raving about how we should have them in our parking lots. And then I remind myself that he doesn't have young kids in school.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And I guess what really pisses me off is that the same douchebags pushing gun control and making law abiding folks easier targets are the ones that don't have the gonads to take on the really issues behind the violence. Quit handling these criminals with silk gloves. stiffen the penalties to where they really mean something. Start frying them on a regular basis and see what happens. Hell use it as a fund raiser and I will buy a lottery ticket to pull the switch.  Start holding these halfwit parents, letting their kids run amuck, criminally responsible. And give the parents back authority to discipline their kids. Dr Spock was the worst thing to happen to the human race. "Don't spank little Joey, it will scar his sensitive self image". Raising a nation full self entitled little wimps that cant cope when things don't go their way. Some of the crap that gets tagged with "Mental illness' now a days and start cramming pills,  when a lot of them probably would have benefits from a swift and firm size 12

[Five Seasons]

What is an "urban"

 

i guy who lives in a city and isn't dressed in dirty jeans and a camo hat going rabbit hunting. A suit and tie, a hoody, skinny jeans in a lexus or civic with a shotgun on the passenger seat. Not the s10 with the gun rack.

[Borngeechee]

Come on guys, guns are the weapons of choice in murders in this country and we ALL know it. They are efficient killers and easily obtainable in this country, thus our murder rate is what it is compared to countries where they are not as easy to get. These comparisons to pressure cookers and cars is quite silly. Sure, my pillow can kill someone too, so why don't more people use that?

Everyone that commits murder already knows that it's against the law and the same goes for every robber. Criminals by definition break the law. So what about creating a new law would make them decide they shouldn't be criminals any longer. Only law abiding citizens follow laws and they aren't the ones committing the crimes. New laws would only put more restrictions on the ones not committing the crimes and have no affect on those who make a career out of breaking laws.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

 I'm just stating that common sense laws already in place like background checks and gun free zones do not hurt anyone.

 

 

But you can't see that they don't stop anything. Look at Lanza. He was actually denied for a purchase if I recall correctly. Mom didn't store properly but Let's for a minute say she did. What do you think his next move would have been? Every take a stroll around New Haven or Waterbury? I am betting anyone on here could put their hands on a gun in the matter of just a couple hours.

[Five Seasons]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Didn't take very much effort for him. Should we ban pressure cookers too? It blows my mind that you guys think a law is gonna make things all better.

 

We use something called the newspaper test when we get into gray areas at work. You're infighting with conservative gun owners and ignoring the very large population of americans who are on the fence about guns or aren't a big fan.

 

So take off your "what makes sense, and what will really work" hat and consider the social media, over reacting society we live in... whether you like it or not and think about this.

 

New York Times, D&C etc.

 

"Gun Right Advocates Lobby to Allow Guns Back in School Zones"

 

and then tell me how you think that'll go over with our cause to keep the rights we have... which are already less than what we had 2 years ago.

 

[Five Seasons]

But you can't see that they don't stop anything. Look at Lanza. He was actually denied for a purchase if I recall correctly. Mom didn't store properly but Let's for a minute say she did. What do you think his next move would have been? Every take a stroll around New Haven or Waterbury? I am betting anyone on here could put their hands on a gun in the matter of just a couple hours.

 

If the kid is denied a gun, and the mom locks up hers he's going to really have to work hard to get one. I think that's all most people really want. Make it freaking difficult. Yes, you can't stop everything but lets not make it easy for God's sake. Make this suburban white kid go down to a city corner to buy an illegal gun. Make it freakin hard. Maybe the criminal doesn't even sell it to the suburban white kid knowing what he might do. It's not urban crime anymore. There is no street code and maybe he doesn't get the gun. And yes, beef up the illegal gun laws. Fry them!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If the kid is denied a gun, and the mom locks up hers he's going to really have to work hard to get one. I think that's all most people really want. Make it freaking difficult. Yes, you can't stop everything but lets not make it easy for God's sake. Make this suburban white kid go down to a city corner to buy an illegal gun. Make it freakin hard. Maybe the criminal doesn't even sell it to the suburban white kid knowing what he might do. It's not urban crime anymore. There is no street code and maybe he doesn't get the gun. And yes, beef up the illegal gun laws. Fry them!

You said you  have spent all this time in the cities. Difficult can't even be used when describing a street buy. I have seen it happen in both those CT cities I mentioned. My point has been and remains. The only burden law abiding and does nothing to stop the evil person bent on doing evil things.

[Doc]

If the kid is denied a gun, and the mom locks up hers he's going to really have to work hard to get one. I think that's all most people really want. Make it freaking difficult. Yes, you can't stop everything but lets not make it easy for God's sake. Make this suburban white kid go down to a city corner to buy an illegal gun. Make it freakin hard. Maybe the criminal doesn't even sell it to the suburban white kid knowing what he might do. It's not urban crime anymore. There is no street code and maybe he doesn't get the gun. And yes, beef up the illegal gun laws. Fry them!

Do you see where this kind of thinking eventually leads when you take it all to its logical conclusion? Make everything about gun ownership enough pain and anguish and eventually the problem solves itself. Throw enough hoops to jump through, and hurdles to jump over and eventually the guns will simply go away. And none of these harassments on their own, taken just one at a time, seems to be much of an encroachment. But the wise gun opponent knows, when taken together, these things all add up to enough harassment that a large percentage of potential gun owners will simply give up. Make gun ownership painful enough and gun owners go away.

 

None of our gun banning buddies are going for the gold anymore. There is very little talk about simply making all guns illegal anymore. But the mass of little gun ownership harassment proposals and laws will eventually do the same job.

[Doc]

Is there anybody who really believes that the school mass killings never happened before because firearms were so difficult to obtain? Does anyone believe that no one ever walked into a school years ago and mowed down a bunch of kids because of magazine capacity was too small. Does anyone think that it is because there was no black guns that look nasty that kids-killing-kids has been happening only recently? You know what? It wasn't anything about guns, ammo, or accessories that has made any of these relatively recent atrocities happen. If there were no guns at all, these troubled kids and those of the future will be taking lessons from our terrorist buddies in the news, and will do the job even worse with homemade bombs. And by the way I am guessing that that is going to be the next generation of shock activities that these troubled minds will be soon conjuring up.

 

There comes a time when we have to stop being distracted by means, and start looking more constructively at causes, because those bent on doing evil, will do evil. When you eventually find a method of controlling one weapon, sure as hell, they will up the ante with an even more destructive method.

 

Perhaps it is time to start wondering why those kids a couple of decades ago (and beyond) didn't drag their old squirrel rifle or deer shotgun to school to knock off a bunch of kids. There is something a lot more fundamental than just weaponry at work here and if we don't get a handle on it, things will be happening in our schools that will make the Columbine-style shootings seem miniscule in comparison. And likely, they won't involve guns at all. But all this gun attention is taking the spotlight off the real problems and the politicians and the anti-gun people are likely very content to simply keep picking away at gun rights as their solution, which is basically doing nothing but waiting for the next generation of mayhem.