NY's Future Under A Fracking Ban

[Doc]

The best course of action for any thinking individual is to make a statement to NY that you will not comply, will not subsidize tyranny and oppression, economic or otherwise, with payroll and property taxes, and will not be a willing subject under any form of government that is seriously corrupt, destroys freedom and creates problems, rather than solves them.

Are these all things that you did before turning tail and crawling out of the state in defeat? Did you withhold your payroll and property taxes as a protest before you ran away? Maybe all that stuff sounds so much better as advice for others than as actual deeds for yourself. It's much easier to run away than to follow your own advice, isn't it?

 

[Mr VJP]

I meant withholding those taxes by leaving!  It's not running away.  It's giving up on anyone in the state having any sense.  It's a lost cause.  You guys just won't admit it.

 

You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Mr VJP

[EspressoBuzz]

If we accept and support everthing blindly we would have had fracking. Its that we didn't support it and the people fought for change.

We fought for the environment against the interest of the Oil and Gas Industry. Who were dangeling carrots in hopes we would let them destroy our land and environment for money.  That is a moral and ethical victory we should be proud of, I am.

 

 

I think that was democracy!

 

Side note, Gov of Texas banned individual counties and towns from banning fracking.

[steve863]

All I know is that anytime you open up a thread started by VJP or Papist you not only leave NYS, but leave reality altogether.   Then you enter into the.....

 

 

[Dave]

CALIFORNIA

 

Pipeline operator in oil spill has high rate of safety infractions

Julie Cart, Jack Dolan and Doug Smith

A Times analysis of data shows the company responsible for the ruptured Santa Barbara pipeline has a rate of incidents more than three times the national average.

[Dave]

 

CALIFORNIA

Pipeline operator in oil spill has high rate of safety infractions

Julie Cart, Jack Dolan and Doug Smith

A Times analysis of data shows the company responsible for the ruptured Santa Barbara pipeline has a rate of incidents more than three times the national average.

 

 

So you say the oil companies know what they are doing and we need less regulation, think again. Seems to be a reoccuring theme, when will we learn it's all about the profit not our health and as this article points out definately not about protecting the environment. Just another incident that didn't happen right Mr. VJP. No cantamination of our water right!!!

 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Dave

[EspressoBuzz]

Hmmm Texas based company, same state where the governor just passed a ban on fracking bans. The next tear to your eye will be when you hear how little they will be fined for this spill, It will not cover the cost of clean up and no one will go to jail.

 

YAY LESS REGULATIONS!!!!

[Mr VJP]

Seems to me the issue highlights the lack of effectiveness of the costly regulations.  With all of your beloved regulation in effect, how is it that something like this can possibly happen?

 

Perhaps you should investigate the relationship between the regulators and the "regulatees".  You may find more evidence of government's lack of concern for the safety they want you to believe they provide for you.

 

There are also many laws against bribery and corruption, but there are many instances of it regarding energy regulation, to put it far above the national average as well.  Perhaps the evil you see in businesses is not all the evil there is.

 

Meanwhile, businesses that religiously adhere to all the strict regulation, having spotless safety records, go bankrupt. 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Mr VJP

[wildcat junkie]

Seems to me the issue highlights the lack of effectiveness of the costly regulations. With all of your beloved regulation in effect, how is it that something like this can possibly happen?

Perhaps you should investigate the relationship between the regulators and the "regulatees". You may find more evidence of government's lack of concern for the safety they want you to believe they provide for you.

There are also many laws against bribery and corruption, but there are many instances of it regarding energy regulation, to put it far above the national average as well. Perhaps the evil you see in businesses is not all the evil there is.

Meanwhile, businesses that religiously adhere to all the strict regulation, having spotless safety records, go bankrupt.

So by your own words, it sounds like we need more stringent enforcement of existing regulations, not less regulation.

[Mr VJP]

We need more stringent enforcement, but less regulation.

 

Why exactly are environmental catastrophes not properly cleaned up?  How is it the total cost of a clean up isn't charged?

 

The regulations are there, but the fines are not.  Those who do things right are paying the enormous costs of operating under government regulation, while those who pollute are not being charged for it.

 

I suggest we have fewer business killing regulations and simply charge the real costs of a clean up to those who create pollution.

 

A good analogy is gun control.  Stop creating a gun hating culture moving towards total removal of gun rights and start holding those who use a gun for evil purposes completely responsible for their actions with a gun.  You murder someone with a gun, you get executed.  You rob a store, you go to prison for a long time because you used a gun.  You're a convict in possession of a gun, you go to prison for at least 10 years.  You are caught in possession of a stolen gun or get caught stealing a gun, you get jailed for 10 years.

 

Currently these types of penalties are not handed down and should be.  Instead, all gun owners are blamed.  That's purely a political M.O., nothing less.

 

Polluters should also be held adequately liable for pollution, but they aren't.  Instead we engage in collectivist thinking and demonize all business as bad.  The only logical reason for that type of thinking is full control of all business, whether they do it right or not.  That's anti-capitalism.  There is no other name for it.

 

 

 

[Dave]

We need more stringent enforcement, but less regulation.

 

Why exactly are environmental catastrophes not properly cleaned up?  How is it the total cost of a clean up isn't charged?

 

The regulations are there, but the fines are not.  Those who do things right are paying the enormous costs of operating under government regulation, while those who pollute are not being charged for it.

 

I suggest we have fewer business killing regulations and simply charge the real costs of a clean up to those who create pollution.

 

A good analogy is gun control.  Stop creating a gun hating culture moving towards total removal of gun rights and start holding those who use a gun for evil purposes completely responsible for their actions with a gun.  You murder someone with a gun, you get executed.  You rob a store, you go to prison for a long time because you used a gun.  You're a convict in possession of a gun, you go to prison for at least 10 years.  You are caught in possession of a stolen gun or get caught stealing a gun, you get jailed for 10 years.

 

Currently these types of penalties are not handed down and should be.  Instead, all gun owners are blamed.  That's purely a political M.O., nothing less.

 

Polluters should also be held adequately liable for pollution, but they aren't.  Instead we engage in collectivist thinking and demonize all business as bad.  The only logical reason for that type of thinking is full control of all business, whether they do it right or not.  That's anti-capitalism.  There is no other name for it.

 

•  

U.S. Coast Guard Responds to Oil Platform Fire in Gulf of Mexico Production at the Miss Katherine offshore supply vessel near New Orleans has been halted

By

Erin Ailworth And

Chelsey Dulaney

Updated May 22, 2015 1:22 p.m. ET

0 COMMENTS

The U.S. Coast Guard said Friday that it is responding to a fire at an oil production platform near New Orleans.

The Coast Guard received a report of a fire from the Miss Katherine offshore supply vessel at 2:50 a.m. Production has been halted and the platform evacuated. No injuries were reported among the 28 onboard.

The platform’s owner, Texas Petroleum Investment Co., said the platform gathers oil and pumps it through a pipeline, meaning that little oil—as much as 120 barrels—was stored on site. All wells feeding the platform have been shut down, it said.

“Our company is working with the Coast Guard and other agencies to address any environmental issues that develop,” the Houston-based company said in a statement. “All the workers on the platform were safely evacuated and there were no injuries.”

The Coast Guard said the platform, which has storage capacity for about 4,000 barrels of crude oil, has been shut down. It said the 60 wells that operate from the platform are in the process of being shut in.

The news comes just days after oil from a ruptured pipeline in southern California leaked into the Pacific Ocean, fouling a Santa Barbara County beach.

Oil and Gas companies doing another fine job.

 

[Mr VJP]

Funny how these spills, oil train wrecks and oil pipeline problems increase in frequency when the price of oil is low and storage facilities are full.  They hardly ever happen when oil prices are at all time highs.

 

How is that not a strange coincidence?

 

[Dave]

Funny how these spills, oil train wrecks and oil pipeline problems increase in frequency when the price of oil is low and storage facilities are full.  They hardly ever happen when oil prices are at all time highs.

 

How is that not a strange coincidence?

 

I guess it's just like you said in a previous post they have the experience and know what they are doing. They have been at long enough and don't need any gov't regu;ations. To fix something that's not broken. Oh, by the way I have some waterfront property in California to sell ya. Just one problem it comes with all the oil you can scrape off the sand and rocks. But the weather is great.

 

[Mr VJP]

So oil prices are low, fuel prices are low, the taxes the government is collecting on fuels are low now also.  Suddenly there is a rash of oil spills from pipelines and trains, and the fines are low.  Plus the cost of the cleanup is shifted to taxpayers.  Go figure.

[philoshop]

It seems there are a fair number of folks here who believe government regulation is 'a solution'.

 

Let's set the fracking issue aside for a moment while I ask a question:

Is there anything, at all, that you believe should not be regulated?

[wildcat junkie]

Nope, the industry is doing fine with it's own oversight, which it knows best how to do.  If the government decides the regulations, it will inevitably turn out about as well as anything the government decides to do, a dismal failure.

And Mr VJP goes farther & farther into "another dimension".

So oil prices are low, fuel prices are low, the taxes the government is collecting on fuels are low now also.  Suddenly there is a rash of oil spills from pipelines and trains, and the fines are low.  Plus the cost of the cleanup is shifted to taxpayers.  Go figure.

  

All I know is that anytime you open up a thread started by VJP or Papist you not only leave NYS, but leave reality altogether.   Then you enter into the.....

 

 

[Mr VJP]

Give it more time junkie.  Keep thinking about it and maybe the light will finally go on.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Give it more time junkie.  Keep thinking about it and maybe the light will finally go on.

 

Wildcat's light is on - I've seen it. And, someone is home!

[wildcat junkie]

Give it more time junkie. Keep thinking about it and maybe the light will finally go on.

The light went on for me by the middle of Reagan's 2nd term. Unlike many working class folks that still worship him & his voodoo economics, it didn't take me too long to catch on the the world's most accomplished BS artist. I have to give him credit though, he had me fooled for a while. Quite the con man he was.

Edited May 23, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[EspressoBuzz]

It seems there are a fair number of folks here who believe government regulation is 'a solution'.

 

Let's set the fracking issue aside for a moment while I ask a question:

Is there anything, at all, that you believe should not be regulated?

 

Since I believe that humans have the capacity to abuse EVERYTHING. I have a question for you. Or better yet lets play a game. You name something that should not be regulated and then try and find the abuse. Also to be fair let's all name abusive regulations, or those that favor large corporations for no reason but to give them an advantage over small companies (America's Economic Backbone).

 

There are plenty in all fields. Make no mistakes, money in politics has corrupted all.

[wildcat junkie]

Also to be fair let's all name abusive regulations, or those that favor large corporations for no reason but to give them an advantage over small companies (America's Economic Backbone).

There are plenty in all fields. Make no mistakes, money in politics has corrupted all.

How about Reagan when he quit enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust act? That's what brought us Wallmart & consolidated banking into just a few entities that are "too big to fail".

There's an example of lax regulation favoring large corporations.

Edited May 23, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[philoshop]

Since I believe that humans have the capacity to abuse EVERYTHING. I have a question for you. Or better yet lets play a game. You name something that should not be regulated and then try and find the abuse. Also to be fair let's all name abusive regulations, or those that favor large corporations for no reason but to give them an advantage over small companies (America's Economic Backbone).

 

There are plenty in all fields. Make no mistakes, money in politics has corrupted all.

 

I'll need some time to put together a list of what you're asking for because it's scattered far and wide throughout my computer. In the meantime, do you have an answer to my question?

What, if anything, would you consider improper with respect to government regulation?

[EspressoBuzz]

abortion

[Mr VJP]

Didn't they legalize abortion so they could regulate it and eliminate back alley abortions with coat hangers?  If it wasn't regulated now, would it be safe for women to get one?

 

How about the internet?  Should it be regulated?

 

 

[wildcat junkie]

Didn't they legalize abortion so they could regulate it and eliminate back alley abortions with coat hangers? If it wasn't regulated now, would it be safe for women to get one?

How about the internet? Should it be regulated?

Seems like the religious REICH are the ones that want to regulate abortions. Seems that they want them right back into the back alleys.

Waiting periods, counseling, shorter & shorter legal time limits, requiring clinics to have admittance privileges, etc, etc, etc.

Answer this. If gun control laws won't prevent violence with guns, what makes you think abortions bans will prevent abortions?

Edited May 24, 2015 by wildcat junkie