High Brass Shotgun Shells.........

[jim335]

Does the gun have changeable chokes?  Full choke would be great for turkey and with that load and head/neck shot should work. Now lets back up, you were recommended to use "Hevi Shot" loads. You bought "Hevi Game" loads. Those two a totally different. What you bought is light, and could end up jamming the gun. Hevi Shot is a heavy load to work your action.  

[DirtTime]

Yes it has interchangeable chokes. I can get custom ones and I can use a few brands of already manufactured chokes. From what I read the threading for the choke system will accept a few top brand chokes. The choke in there right now is a modified.

 

No, I was not recommended to use any specific ammo. Never said that. It is recommended to use high brass, no matter the brand. The ammo I bought works fine. I didn't treat the shotgun like an assault rifle and try to unload as fast I could. I took my time and placed my sights on target like I would in a hunting situation. I am not going to blast away at a turkey or any other game.

 

I will do more testing and use different ammo and see what works best for what I plan to hunt. If I decide to hunt ducks, I will test some steel-shot. My local suburban woods allow small game hunting with non-lead/toxic shot, so I might test that too.

 

If I have to use high brass so be it. If the gun shoots low brass $5.99 a box cheap ammo great! I treat rifles and shotguns the same. You have to find what works best for your gun. So using high brass would be equal to me like shooting a proper bullet from the rifle.

 

I have an odd question now, what difference does it make if the gun likes the high brass? As long as it patters well, and does what it supposed to do, what real difference does it make?

 

EDIT:

Just to make my question clear, from what I know and remember, high brass holds more powder, so a bit more umph in the charge. Low brass is less powder and more shot. So over all wouldn't it come down to what shoots best out of any shotgun?

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by ....rob

[Pygmy]

High brass/low brass is a somewhat vague term dating back to when shotshells were made of paper. In those days, more powerful loads required more brass on the head for strength.

Hence, less powerful loads (generally with lighter shot charges) such as target loads and standard loads for smaller upland birds and animals came with a short brass head, and more powerful loads for bigger game and longer range shooting such as waterfowl, predators, turkeys and such had a higher brass head.

Modern plastic heads are so strong that they don't even NEED a metal head..Some members here will remember the ACTIV line of shotshells which were made in powerful magnum and slug loads and were all plastic..They worked fine.

However, due to tradition or whatever, metal case heads have persisted on shotshells...Generally the lighter loads have low brass heads and the heavier loads have higher brass heads.The loads you bought, a 3 dram equivalent, 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge load, is actually a low brass load .It is a good all around load for squirrels, rabbits, upland game and will serve fine for turkeys at moderate range, say within 35 yards or so.

[DirtTime]

Thank you Pygmy. Pretty much what I though and remembered.

I won't and do not plan on using this round for turkey. 3" #4's all the way for that. I have some time to test different ammo.

I may not be that old, but I have seen and shot the paper shells. From an old 8ga and 10ga. No, sorry I was 14 and I do not remember the models of the guns. They were both double barrel, and hurt like hell to shoot.

 

I am just trying to understand why shooting the high brass seems to be an issue for some. I swear on my mothers grave, I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just asking what people like for the high brass and what number shot you like. Why the masses seem to prefer the low brass. 

[Lawdwaz]

Low brass are usually cheaper, less powerful loads that are used for small game like squirrel, rabbit, dove etc.

 

BUT, the biggest use (I'd bet) is for claybird shooting of all types and most guys don't want to spend a ton of money and certainly don't need the heavy load of powder or shot that comes with most high brass loads.  

[Pygmy]

Very simple, Rob..Low brass shells are generally cheaper, kick less and are more than adequate for most upland game hunting..They also put fewer shot pellets in the eatin' meat..Why churn a rabbit into bunny burger with an expensive heavy loaded shotshell when low brass sixes get the job done with less damage on BOTH ends of the shotgun..?.

For turkey, waterfowl and predators everyone I know uses heavy magnum loads..

About the only time I use regular high velocity loads is for pheasant, because those big roosters sometimes require a more powerful load..In a 12 gauge that would be a 3 3/4 dram equivalent, 1 1/4 oz load...Any brand...

For woodcock, grouse, crows, pigeons,rabbits and squirrels I use low brass either #6 or #7 1/2, in the cheapest promo loads I can find.I do most of my upland hunting with a 20 gauge..

For waterfowl I use Kent fasteel #2 or BB in 12 gauge 3 inch magnum.

For turkeys I use 12 gauge 3 inch magnum buffered copper plated turkey loads, either Winchester XX or Federal Premium #6 shot..

Edited July 20, 2015 by Pygmy

[jim335]

I don't think your trying to be argumentative at all, just trying to gather some thoughts. Why I use the round I like for squirrel, rabbit, grouse, pheasant, etc. I like Remington Express #5's  1 1/4oz.  3 3/4 Dram   1330 fps (feet per second).  and this could be Winchester, Federal, as long as the numbers were right.  I found that the speed and size of the pellet did a better job of passing all the way through the animal.  7 1/2's were the worse, skin a rabbit or squirrel and pellets fell out and a lot still in the meat, 6's were a little better. So I'm just thinking of the end product.  The round you have I'm going to guess it's maybe 1200 fps. Now that round will kill game all day long, but if you like eating what you shoot, be prepared to bite into some lead.  I hope this helps.       I just looked up that Hevi Game loads, and they're made by Hevi Shot! lol I just learned something.

Edited July 20, 2015 by jim335

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I may be VERY wrong here on saying this but if it is a recoil operated semi....it may only like the high brass shells due to the heavier load.

Again.....may be wrong but throwing it out there

The Raptor is gas operated. It must have some very stiff springs to only cycle heavy loads. even the older recoil operated Remington 1148 and Browning square backs had provisions to flip components to allow for shooting light loads.  

[DirtTime]

That was one of the issues brought up in a few reviews, you can't flip the stop in the tube for low and high.

If I was a clay shooter I would definitely have got something that would shoot lowbrass. I can absolutely see wanting a less recoil when you are shooting a box or two when you are out on the range.

 

Yes the shells are made my Heavy Shot. If you look in the corner on the box in the pic it has their logo. I had remembered someone talking about them before around here so I wanted to give them a try. I want to try the non-toxic as well. I used to mainly use Winchester for shot loads and they always did well out of just about any gun I had. But, being a new day I wanted to check out other options and not be stubborn like I can be most of the time. I'm a New Yorker! We are born stubborn and our first smile is actually a smirk because even that young we are thinking something sarcastic to say! Probably something like "Yeah! I got your goochy goo! Right here in my diaper!". LOL

 

What about shot #? A few have been mentioned, but what are everyone's though on that? Me personally, I doubt I would go smaller then #7's, or larger then #4's.

 

[Lawdwaz]

LOL

 

What about shot #? A few have been mentioned, but what are everyone's though on that? Me personally, I doubt I would go smaller then #7's, or larger then #4's.

 

I forget, what were you hunting primarily?

 

I know it'll ruffle some feathers (LOL) but there ain't much you can't kill with a high brass 7 1/2 shot but I know others will squeak so I'll say turkey 4,5 and 6.  Pheasant 4, 5 and 6.  Crow anything left over.  Bunny and squirrel 6 and 7 1/2.

[DirtTime]

Spring turkey. Maybe some greys after deer season, depending on snowfall. I was actually even thinking about doing a little red squirrel hunting while at camp this summer. Last I knew you could hunt them all year and no bag limits. Not fox, reds.

 

[Pygmy]

Spring turkey. Maybe some greys after deer season, depending on snowfall. I was actually even thinking about doing a little red squirrel hunting while at camp this summer. Last I knew you could hunt them all year and no bag limits. Not fox, reds.

Talking lead shot only, I could get by shooting everything that I shoot with #6 shot..

Turkeys, grouse,pheasants, woodcock, crows , squirrels, rabbits...I kill them all with 6's...

Back when lead shot was legal for waterfowl, I used to kill a BUNCH of ducks with lead 6's and 7 1/2's..

Nontoxic shot changed that.. You need bigger shot and higher velocities with steel. 2's and BB's are standard now..

Predators require heavy lead or denser than lead nontoxics..4's 2's and BB's for lead as well as buckshot loads..

[DirtTime]

#6 for turkey Pygmy? Is that a 3"? #6 is pretty universal, but I never thought about using it for turkey.

Predators, I would just use the rifle to hunt them. But, Yes, I would not go lighter then a #4 on a shot shell.

 

 

[Pygmy]

My goal in picking a turkey load is to use one that delivers a dense pattern of shot to provide multiple pellet hits on the head and neck of a turkey.. Turkeys, being such a large bird well protected by heavy feathers, can absorb a lot of punishment from a body shot and still run or fly off..However, it only takes a few relatively small shot deliver to the vulnerable head and neck area to kill a turkey.. #6 shot, with it's higher pellet count, gives me a denser pattern..

That said, I used #4 shot for many years with good results, and also killed some turkeys with # 5's...Over the last 10 years or so I have finally settled on 6's..Works for me..

Edited July 21, 2015 by Pygmy

[DirtTime]

Wow. I guess things don't change as much as we think. I was brought up with the theory #6 was the best universal load. Always worked well for me as well. The ones I have now seem solid at about 40 yds with quite a few pellets in the head neck area of a turkey target on Saturday. That was with 2 3/4" as well. I will still try the #5's and see how much difference there is. But I am also a firm believer if it's not broke, no need to break it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That was one of the issues brought up in a few reviews, you can't flip the stop in the tube for low and high.

If I was a clay shooter I would definitely have got something that would shoot lowbrass. I can absolutely see wanting a less recoil when you are shooting a box or two when you are out on the range.

 

Yes the shells are made my Heavy Shot. If you look in the corner on the box in the pic it has their logo. I had remembered someone talking about them before around here so I wanted to give them a try. I want to try the non-toxic as well. I used to mainly use Winchester for shot loads and they always did well out of just about any gun I had. But, being a new day I wanted to check out other options and not be stubborn like I can be most of the time. I'm a New Yorker! We are born stubborn and our first smile is actually a smirk because even that young we are thinking something sarcastic to say! Probably something like "Yeah! I got your goochy goo! Right here in my diaper!". LOL

 

What about shot #? A few have been mentioned, but what are everyone's though on that? Me personally, I doubt I would go smaller then #7's, or larger then #4's.

Just so we all are on the same page. I cringe whenever I see a "low" brass or "High" brass  comment, because it is kind of deceiving. Kind of like saying doe the Nickel  coated 30-06 case have more power than the brass case? It really is about the powder charge and the weight of the shot. While high brass tends to be more and low brass, less it isn't a great indicator.  If you have ever slug hunted for deer and seen the old "Activ" shells, they were all plastic and not brass at all.

[DirtTime]

Yeah, it's pretty much been established that over all there won't be much difference except in recoil and price. I do not remember 'Activ' shells.

[jjb4900]

 If you have ever slug hunted for deer and seen the old "Activ" shells, they were all plastic and not brass at all.

I remember using "Activ" for Duck hunting.....I think I even have a few kicking around.

[jjb4900]

[DirtTime]

Still don't remember them. I would never have used them though. If the receiver is grabbing plastic there would have have been small shavings of plastic left behind in my guess. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

. If the receiver is grabbing plastic there would have have been small shavings of plastic left behind in my guess. 

Don't know what you mean by that

[jjb4900]

we probably shot hundreds of them while duck hunting..........never recall any problems with them cycling properly or any other issues. The load itself was questionable, but that's another issue.

Edited July 21, 2015 by jjb4900

[DirtTime]

@ CCHC: I mean the receiver claws that grab and extract a spent shell are metal. If they are grabbing plastic. Not exactly a hard material like metal. I would think that there would be little shavings left behind.