The NZ & Muzzle Loaders

[DirtTime]

No one ever talks about the issues in this area. Most areas, are not DMP areas. So unless you hunt with a ML you can't shoot a doe in most WMU's.

What makes the ML so special up north? If I can use a ML why not a bow ( especially! ) ? Or a shotgun or rifle? Why no DMP's in about 80% of the NZ?

Do you only care about the SZ because that's where you live or hunt?

I am very curious now that the new laws went into effect. People are all ready for war in the south, but the NZ is either not taken seriously, or too many people just don't care about the NZ.

 

[wolc123]

The last few years in the NZ, the weather has been a little too warm during the one week ML season for much good action.   Since I have a 4.5 hour drive to the in-laws camp up there, I wouldn't want to deal with the doe-meat anyhow due to the temperature issue and keeping the meat in good condition.   I have taken doe up there with the ML some years ago when we had cooler weather.   I am keeping my fingers crossed for cool weather this fall when we go up for a 4 day trip covering 2 days of x-bow and 2 days of ML.  

 

I prefer shooting bucks because they are easier and faster for me to butcher, because of less fat to trim, but I wouldn't mind using both of my tags on nice fat NZ does this fall.   There is way to many of them "flatheads" around the camp with at least 20 per antlered buck on trail cams.    If we are lucky, we may even bring home (3) as my father in law is going to break out his ML this year.   He wont sit thru the archery course to get the second tag however so that is the best we could do.      

[wdswtr]

You can take a doe with your bow in NZ.  2 if you have last years tag left unfilled.   ML run the last week of Bow. You can take a doe with your bow there are 2 areas however where you cant with a ML. Im not following what you are saying.  Not many areas up here you can apply for a DMP cause the Doe are not nearly as plentiful.  However if you are a landowner in NZ with enough land, I think 50 acres minimum you qualify for a doe permit regardless.  The only issue I have is ML in the woods during bow season, the rifle season is so long there is no reason why we cant lose the first week of rifle and give ML's there own seperate season. I also like how much more peaceful our season is up here.  Opening day you dont get the opening day warriors blasting every shell they can fit in their pockets non stop till they run out of light, cant take the weather or run out of ammo like in the southern zone. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by wdswtr

[DirtTime]

Rifle only this year, but last year I couldn't locate in the regs where it said I could use the early season tag on a doe. I will have to sift through it some more. Then again, by next year, that might be all that's allowed.

[wdswtr]

You cant use your early season tags during rifle season, you have to use your regular season tag, doesnt matter if you use your rifle bow or ml. 

[wdswtr]

From the NYDEC website.

 

Q: May I use my Bow/Muzzleloading tags (either-sex and antlerless tags) during the Regular Season?
A: No. Bow/Muzzleloading tags are only valid during the special bowhunting and muzzleloading seasons depending on which privileges you purchased. Bow/Muzzleloading tags are not valid during the Regular Seasons, except in Westchester and Suffolk Counties or by junior archers hunting with a bow during the regular seasons.

Q: May I use my Regular Season deer tag during the special seasons?
A: Your Regular Season deer tag cannot be used in the Early Bowhunting or Early Muzzleloading seasons. It can only be used in the Regular Deer Seasons in the Northern and Southern Zones to take a buck. Except, the Regular Season deer tag is valid for deer of either sex in Westchester & Suffolk counties, in areas restricted to bowhunting only (WMUs 4J and 8C), and during the late seasons with the appropriate bow or muzzleloading privileges. During the late seasons, the Regular Season deer tag is valid for deer of either sex.

Q: Why are bowhunters not allowed to use the regular deer tag during the early Bowhunting Season?
A: The simple reason is as a measure of fairness. Adult bucks are a limited resource, and many hunters go multiple seasons before successfully harvesting a buck. To allow bowhunters the opportunity to harvest two bucks prior to the opening of the gun season would be to provide bowhunters an unfair advantage.

Q: Can I use my antlerless Bow/Muzzleloading tag in a unit where the muzzleloader hunting regulations specify only antlered deer can be taken?
A: No. You may only shoot deer that can legally be taken in the unit in which you are hunting. The individual unit regulations and tag requirements must both be satisfied and dictate what may be taken during the muzzleloading seasons.

[wdswtr]

And as far as using your regular season tag from previous hunting season, you can take either buck or doe with your bow from sept 27 to sept 30 if you still posses it. 

Cut and paste again from DEC website.

 

Regular Season Deer Tag Antlered Deer Only

Exceptions:
Antlered or Antlerless

1. During the regular season in Westchester Co. and during any season in Suffolk Co.
2. In Areas restricted to longbow hunting only
3. During late season (with bow or muzzleloading privilege)
4. September 27-30, in the Northern Zone with previous season's unused tag and bow privilege

Edited August 13, 2015 by wdswtr

[DirtTime]

You cant use your early season tags during rifle season, you have to use your regular season tag, doesnt matter if you use your rifle bow or ml. 

 

That part I know and they make it clear. I am talking the early season. That's where it gets a little gray. I cannot find anything in writing stating I can use my early season tag in the NZ with the bow for anterless. The area is buck only, except ML ( during the ML season ). Even the land owner who hunts once in a blue moon said bow was the same as gun even in the early season, no anterless.

Trust me when I say there is no ill or argumentative intent here. 

[wdswtr]

LOL Im just trying to figure out what you are asking.  When you state early season the way DEC defines it and the way us norther tier guys define it, two different things.  Early season we consider sept.27 to sept 30th, then bow then ML then regular season.  Im guessing you are talking about taking a doe during bow season?  What WMU are you hunting up here? 

[DirtTime]

LOL Im just trying to figure out what you are asking.  When you state early season the way DEC defines it and the way us norther tier guys define it, two different things.  Early season we consider sept.27 to sept 30th, then bow then ML then regular season.  Im guessing you are talking about taking a doe during bow season?  What WMU are you hunting up here? 

LOL! Sorry. I guess it is a bit vague.

I know I could use last years tag for either sex during the early season. Last year for that too I think.

The regular bow season is what I meant. I hunt in 5J. 

[wdswtr]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html#deer

Bow season norther zone, the area in yellow on first map.  You hunt with the bow tags you have, which would be either sex tag and if purchased an ML tag it gives you an additional antlerss tag to use for bow season or ML season.  This is for the whole N tier that is in yellow. 

Now for ML if you are in an area on the ML season map that is antlered only the only tag you can use is your ML either sex tag to take a buck. 

I understand why this is confusing cause bow and ML are in same season.  Its stupid as hell always has been always will be.  If you follow the dates and which deer you can take is so dumb if you think about it.  It tells us we can not shoot a doe with our ML during this ML season but yet we can with our bow in a few WMU's in N.Tier, however bow and ML are in the woods at the same damn time.  Stupid its just stupid, OK so go ahead shoot a doe on october 17th with our bow in these areas but you cant shoot a doe with your ML on october 17th even though both season area open.  You got to laugh at this.  Sorry it took so damn long for me to figure out what you are talking about.  Long week lol.  Still how much sense does the DEC make with this?  ABSOLUTELY NONE! 

Edited August 13, 2015 by wdswtr

[wdswtr]

Sorry got on a rant there lol.   5j is buck only for regular season, that does not apply for bow season or ML season.  Here is what you are looking for in writing.  Download this pdf link go to page 28 for tag descriptions.  You can use your either sex tag or antlerless tag during bow season in 5j and all n. tier zones.  

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/15biggame.pdf

[DirtTime]

HA! I never fount that wdswtr. I did look a lot last season, appreciate that link very much. Thank you.

 

 

[wdswtr]

That will be in your guide you get with your license, well that is if they print enough for everyone. 

I knew we would get to the bottom of this sooner or later.  DEC makes things so damn hard to find, answers and regulations are so darn spread out on the website and the guide its pathetic.  I do believe there is even a clause in the guide about referring to DEC website for correct regulations or some crap like that.  We just got to laugh.

[DirtTime]

The bad thing is when you click a link that you "think" will get you on the right track, you end up back where you started. Again I appreciate the help. Thank you.

[ncountry]

 

And as far as using your regular season tag from previous hunting season, you can take either buck or doe with your bow from sept 27 to sept 30 if you still posses it. 

Cut and paste again from DEC website.

 

Regular Season Deer Tag Antlered Deer Only

Exceptions:

Antlered or Antlerless

1. During the regular season in Westchester Co. and during any season in Suffolk Co.
2. In Areas restricted to longbow hunting only
3. During late season (with bow or muzzleloading privilege)
4. September 27-30, in the Northern Zone with previous season's unused tag and bow privilege

 

 

 

I cannot find in this years rules where we can use last years tags from 9/27-30 .  This may be a thing of the past now?

[wdswtr]

I copied that off the 2015 regulations,

Edited August 13, 2015 by wdswtr

[ncountry]

I copied that off the 2015 regulations,

 

Must be I skipped right past it .

[DirtTime]

I cannot find in this years rules where we can use last years tags from 9/27-30 .  This may be a thing of the past now?

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html

 

As far as the new regs on that one, looks like for this season you can still use last years tag. But, that's a shady area as well. They said the new doe only regs would be next year, than blammo, it's for this year.

[wdswtr]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8305.html

Scroll down to Deer Tags and Privileges. 

Like I said they dont make things easy to figure out. 

[ItalianHunter5]

Now that this topic has been brought up, I've been wondering the same thing of why there are no dmp's in the majority of the northern zone. If it's because of population, at least make it a preference point system so there's some out there...but im no DEC. Also, I've been wondering since the first day I started hunting of why on earth 6N, where my father owns property, is buck only for muzzleloader when every single other unit is either sex (except 6A now for early muzzloader according to these new ridiculous changes). We hunt that property 3 or 4 weekends a year before we can jump down to our hometown southern zone and we saw way more does in the area than bucks, even though I was able to take a spike on Halloween.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I do NOT believe that bullet point for last years tags is valid. There really are no tags that are valid for the salt September Early bow season up north since they changed the license year to run from September 1st through August 31st. The tags we have for the 2014-2015 season are void come August 31st and the new 2015-2016 tags are valid for open seasons starting September 1st. If that is still in current regulations it is an error.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I do NOT believe that bullet point for last years tags is valid. There really are no tags that are valid for the salt September Early bow season up north since they changed the license year to run from September 1st through August 31st. The tags we have for the 2014-2015 season are void come August 31st and the new 2015-2016 tags are valid for open seasons starting September 1st. If that is still in current regulations it is an error.

If its in the current book it would be considered LAW.  They hand out 1000's of those things so even if they did change it somewhere i believe the LAW book they send out would trump all.... Their screw up, Not the hunters!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If its in the current book it would be considered LAW.  They hand out 1000's of those things so even if they did change it somewhere i believe the LAW book they send out would trump all.... Their screw up, Not the hunters!

When they write a ticket, they don't cite the page in the handout regulations guide....lol. There is no way they are allowing the use of a tag from outside the license year. This used to be OK because the season opened in late September and the license year was October 1 to September 30, so the last few day of September was covered by the license year that covered that calendar dates.

[dbHunterNY]

they changed the date to beginning of September for license renewal and dropped the use of last years tags to my knowledge.