What's become of the .325 WSM?

[Vinootz]

Update- I’ve Just checked internet for 

325 WSM AMMO AND SEEMS TO BE

PLENTY OUT THERE !!! Double Tapp,

Winchester, Nosler, Hendershots,PCI and 

more. There are times they run low but 

eventually they are available. Got to love 

love this cartridge and the light weight

rifles that shoot it. Pricey ammo but no

big deal for the toys and sports we love. 

IGNORE NAYSAYERS- many people on 

these forums talk negative- even if you

don’t ask for their worthless opinions. I 

own 2. Kimber  Super America  and

a Browning Titanium A bolt. Both are sub 

MOA and I don’t baby them(having 300

rounds down each). Yay to all 325wsm

owners.

[wildcat junkie]

On 5/22/2016 at 5:35 PM, Pygmy said:

For some reason 8MM  cartridges have never caught on in this country.  The very similar  8MM Rem mag never caught fire either...

 

Perhaps they are just too close to the popular .300 Win mag or the excellent  .338 Win mag....

 

There are some excellent bullets available in the 180-225 grain range...

 

It is an excellent cartridge, but if you buy one I would advise you to buy a lifetime supply of brass.

IMO 8mm is one of the most versatile medium bores. Big brother to the 7mm. 

[pitweiler]

I think the .325 never picked up because it doesn’t do anything a .300 WSM can’t. A .375 WSM would be cool. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I think the .325 never picked up because it doesn’t do anything a .300 WSM can’t. A .375 WSM would be cool. 

My 35-300wsm is about the most perfect magnum cartridge ever designed in my opinion. It’s extremely versatile with bullet weights and performs very well out of an 18” barrel! The deer I shot with it was devastating! It will definitely be what I carry when I go on my moose hunt. I just hope I don’t forget my ammo!


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[pitweiler]

A .35 WSM would be much cooler/better than a .325! How did you wildcat it?

[Rattler]

1 hour ago, pitweiler said:

I think the .325 never picked up because it doesn’t do anything a .300 WSM can’t. A .375 WSM would be cool. 

That would be what they call the .375 Ruger.

[Rattler]

39 minutes ago, pitweiler said:

A .35 WSM would be much cooler/better than a .325! How did you wildcat it?

for closer range applications, but far more drop in elevation, velocity and energy at 400 or more yards.

[pitweiler]

28 minutes ago, Rattler said:

That would be what they call the .375 Ruger.

Except a .375 Ruger is a standard length cartridge. 

[tommyc50]

I never understood the concept of the short magnum its an oxymoron .I mean magnum means huge a marketing ploy started by the Champaign industry and picked up by the ammo industry [kinda like jumbo meaning huge started by p.t. Barnum after the elephant ] Talk about obsolete I have 32 spec. ammo my dad left me it was for a gun he had a Winchester 1912 model '94 in 32 spec. . I seen rounds go though the bell curve starts out as the best thing there is touted by all the outdoor writers and celebrity hunters then it goes by the way side[ you know how much sh*t I bought as seen on t.v. that's used once maybe twice ,the only thing I still use regularly is the George forman] . It seems we all come back to the same thing 30-06/.270/.308 and yeah even the 30-30. 

[Buckmaster7600]

A .35 WSM would be much cooler/better than a .325! How did you wildcat it?

Had a 300wsm rebored to .358. Fire form 300 or 270wsm brass. Pretty popular wildcat custom dies are pretty easy to come by. It was my first ever full wildcat not counting Ackley’s and it’s been pretty fun. My 35AR is a lot of fun as well.


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[Renegade Hunter]

I had a bought a Remington 700 270 wsm and was stoked to have it. But it wouldn’t chamber a round smoothly. It would tear up the end of the brass while trying to close the bolt. Loved the way it shot. Absolute cannon. But sold that junk. 

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/9/2018 at 11:33 AM, pitweiler said:

I think the .325 never picked up because it doesn’t do anything a .300 WSM can’t. A .375 WSM would be cool. 

Not true. When bullets of 200 gr or more are employed, the 8mm bore out performs 30 caliber.

With 200 gr bullets, the 30-06 doesn't do anything that the 8 x 57IS can't when loaded to similar chamber pressure. In fact, it lags behind.

Winchester chose 8mm over .338 because at that case capacity the 8mm bore was more efficient.

At 2900 FPS Mv with a 200 gr Speer Hotcor, my 8mm-06 Ackley Improved out performs 300 Win mag factory loads with 200 gr bullets and does not lag far behind the 338 Win mag. All that in a 30-06 sized case with less powder at lower chamber pressure.

[pitweiler]

That’s definitely true. I meant for what most people will use a rifle for -deer hunting- a .325 or even a .338 doesn’t offer any real terminal performance increase over a .277, .284 or .308 bore to name a few. Once you start to get into niche loadings, like you have done, it has advantages, but for Joe Average Hunter I just don’t think they offer enough performance increase. Hence why some of the .325 and .338 spin offs haven’t really gained much popularity. .338 Federal, .325 WSM etc just haven’t gained popularity like they could have.

I really want to add a .338 Federal but I just can’t figure out what it could offer me that I couldn’t get from a .308 Win.

[Rattler]

The .325 WSM was designed to be an Elk round that could equal .338 WM performance in a shorter action rifle, saving weight and enhancing accuracy.  It's overkill on whitetail deer.

[wildcat junkie]

21 hours ago, pitweiler said:

 

I really want to add a .338 Federal but I just can’t figure out what it could offer me that I couldn’t get from a .308 Win.

The 338 Federal barely equals the performance of adult (European) loads in the 8X57IS which easily beats the 308 by a wide margin when 200 gr or heavier bullets are employed.

If the 8x57 was loaded to the same pressure as the 338 Federal (62,000 PSI) it would be no contest.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

19 hours ago, Rattler said:

The .325 WSM was designed to be an Elk round that could equal .338 WM performance in a shorter action rifle, saving weight and enhancing accuracy.  It's overkill on whitetail deer.

It is easier for an Elk capable round to be adapted to hunting Whitetail deer than a deer capable round to be adapted to Elk hunting. 

IMO a 200 gr bullet with adequate sectional density and ballistic coefficient with a Mv of 2700 FPS or more is a good benchmark for Elk.

Just about any 8mm cartridge from the Eurospec 8X57IS on up fits that bill nicely.

A .323 bullet will have a significant sectional density and ballistic coefficient advantage over a .338 bullet of similar weight and design..

Even though it will equal the Mv of a properly loaded 8X57IS with 180 gr bullets, the 338 Federal will have a hard time equaling the 8X57IS for Elk with 200 gr bullets.

Winchester did not choose the 8mm bore on a whim. It is the most efficient bore size for a short action magnum when trajectory and down range retained energy are considered.

Sadly, most American shooters are "metriphobics" and insist on bullet calibers in .03" increments.

Edited December 19, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[pitweiler]

1 hour ago, wildcat junkie said:

The 338 Federal barely equals the performance of adult (European) loads in the 8X57IS which easily beats the 308 by a wide margin when 200 gr or heavier bullets are employed.

If the 8x57 was loaded to the same pressure as the 338 Federal (62,000 PSI) it would be no contest.

 

I just looked into the 8x57 and it actually looks pretty solid. However, the 8x57 is not able to be loaded in a short action so wouldn’t it be best compared to a .338-06?

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:35 AM, pitweiler said:

I just looked into the 8x57 and it actually looks pretty solid. However, the 8x57 is not able to be loaded in a short action so wouldn’t it be best compared to a .338-06?

The 8x57 can be loaded into intermediate length (3 .235" I D) M98 actions and also M70 short actions which are closer to the same length as the M98 IL than the M700. (3..050" Vs 2.8") IMO Remington only makes 2 action lengths in the M700. Too short (2.80") and too long   (3.75")

 

If you want to compare 8mm to the 338-06 them use the 8mm-06 as a yardstick. If loaded ro 3.340" COAL like the '06 it will easily approach 2800 FPS with 200gr bullets. Go another step with the Ackley Improved version for MVv of 2900 FPS. 

[pitweiler]

Is there an 8mm-.308 based wildcat?

[Rattler]

No, but there is a 7mm-08 factory round that was once a wildcat.  The .308 case, being short, isn't well suited to large diameter bullets that are long.  They extend too far into the powder area, which means less powder and slower bullets.  It they are short bullets, they don't have the weight for penetration, nor the length for long flight  ( poor B.C. and S.D. )

 

[wildcat junkie]

5 hours ago, pitweiler said:

Is there an 8mm-.308 based wildcat?

What specific "short action" are you wanting to load for? Why not find a M98 action already chambered for 8X57. or rebarrel some commercial version.

You could put together some effective loads at 3.00" COAL in a M70 "short action".. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[pitweiler]

Ruger Hawkeye. I think the mag length is just under 3.00” I’ve been tossing up the idea of rebarreling it to a medium bore .308 based cartridge. .358 Win has been on the radar. Not really sure I need to, but it would be neat and different. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Ruger Hawkeye. I think the mag length is just under 3.00” I’ve been tossing up the idea of rebarreling it to a medium bore .308 based cartridge. .358 Win has been on the radar. Not really sure I need to, but it would be neat and different. 

Way cheaper to rebore if there’s enough meat on the barrel. I have a cabinet full of devoted rifles and have yet to have one not shoot better than he original. This is the guy I use and wouldn’t use anyone else http://www.35caliber.com


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[wildcat junkie]

9 hours ago, pitweiler said:

Ruger Hawkeye. I think the mag length is just under 3.00” I’ve been tossing up the idea of rebarreling it to a medium bore .308 based cartridge. .358 Win has been on the radar. Not really sure I need to, but it would be neat and different. 

I'm not familiar with the insides if the Ruger M77 actions. A standard length M98 can be lengthened from 3.315" to 3.5" without major surgery, just a but of work with a mill file in the back end and a dremel tool (or mill if you have that) in the front. The Intermediate length large ring M98s (same length as the small ring) are already close to maxed out at 3.235". Perhaps they could be lengthened to 3.295" by thinning down the back wall of the box.

Gaining as little as 1/8" in magazine length can help with the versatility when loading different length/shape bullets.

Edited December 22, 2018 by wildcat junkie

[pitweiler]

9 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Way cheaper to rebore if there’s enough meat on the barrel. I have a cabinet full of devoted rifles and have yet to have one not shoot better than he original. This is the guy I use and wouldn’t use anyone else http://www.35caliber.com


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I’ve  talked to him in the past. My barrel is skinny, only .509” at the muzzle. I do believe he said he could open me up to .338, but not .358.

The biggest concern I have with a rebore is 1) having a whippy barrel that can only group 2 rounds rapidly and walks the third badly, and 2) takes an already light rifle, makes it lighter and then doubles the recoil from a .243 to a .338/.358, which I fear would totally ruin the handling characteristics of the rifle.

If I did the rechamber project I think I might order a Manners stock first, then order a medium heavy sporter with fluting to reduce weight while still giving the rifle some forward balance. Then have the stock inlet, barrel installed and the whole thing put together. Space the prject out over a couple years so I’m not forking over small fortunes at one time. I really think having a 16-20in barreled 8mm or .358 bore rifle in a cartridge that could be loaded properly for the shorter barrel would be a great carrying / handling rifle. My Ruger Hawkeye has a 20in, Marlin has a 20in and Mini14 has an 18in. I’m sold on the shorter barrels for field use. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by pitweiler