An honest assessment of Islam

[Culvercreek hunt club]

"That is exactly what the founders had in mind.."

Now how the hell do you or any other member here know what exactly the founding fathers had in their minds when they started out waaay back then? The endless interpretations on here are amazing, its like you fellas think you were there or something...wow I think some of you should run for office because you know it all so well.

Well in fairness we do have writings form the that discuss the topic.

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

        ---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

<blockquote> 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

        ---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

(That one is for you Virgil )

</blockquote>

[arrowflinger]

I think most Americans support the right to bear arms, but desire reasonable gun control.

The problem is who gets to define "reasonable" gun control laws.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Worship peacefully? Yes, but once worshipping includes attacks on non-believers, then I say no, that's not what was meant. They wanted to worship freely without the church (Englands catholic church) governing their lives. Was that not how it was back then? I now the king was the other problem.

You never told us where you got the "wrapped in the flag"  thing. I think Steve863 has a similar stance as you, I may need to go back and read some posts, but Steve863, what's up? I think Virgil may be taking some heat here. But even if your stance is some restriction, like say no high cap. magazines, you can't give them an inch... that;s why VJP and all these other guys are so passionate about this topic.

My point in that post was to show that the constitution does need to be viewed as a document that reflected the time it was written- at that time, our forefathers would never have imagined to include the words 'synagogue' or 'mosque'.  if they had used the word 'church', as you did when paraphrasing the constitution, then entire groups would not have the same freedoms that you do.  as far as the 'wrapped in the flag' phrase, i'm not understanding your question.  i'm sure that i didn't invent it- what's the curiosity?  i think the phrase is pretty self-explanitory.  my meaning in using it is that by painting only ourselves and others who think just like us as the only 'real americans' and all others as 'infil-traitors', we look silly, small-minded, ignorant, and intolerant.

It's an interesting figure of speach, and quite assuming.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

just take the assault weapon ban. If they felt it was needed they shoud have done it through ammendment. Go back even further. they did it for fully automatic weapons too. (And I don't think households need them).

my question was referring to this specifically.  how were the changes/restrictions/bans arrived at?

I guess I don't get your question. The legistalture crafted a bill and passed a law.

[Mr VJP]

"That is exactly what the founders had in mind.."

Now how the hell do you or any other member here know what exactly the founding fathers had in their minds when they started out waaay back then? The endless interpretations on here are amazing, its like you fellas think you were there or something...wow I think some of you should run for office because you know it all so well.

There are stacks of original documents from the founding fathers that go into great detail regarding their thoughts on the Constitution as well as the Bill of Rights.  They reside in the Library of Congress as do the original Federalist's Papers. 

That is how we know what the founders intended, they actually wrote volumes on their thoughts at the time.  Your response is also how I know they don't teach history in American schools anymore.  Do you think historians don't have evidence, in writing, of all of the historical American documents and their rough drafts?  They do.  You may want to look into them.  You may be very surprised they prove liberal bashing of the US Constitution is a lie.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

  Now come on off that fence boy!  [img alt=]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/tongue.gif[/img]   

http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/icons/clip.gif[/img] foghornleghorn_01.jpg (129.57 kB, 842x1024 - viewed 0 times.)

grow up.  again, show your true colors.  not surprising that you'd use cartoons to bolster a childish position.

true colors? Childish? I'm trying to shed some light on the situation. Sorry you didn't find it funny, I did. Think of it as me extending an olive branch. Maybe one day you'll "have a beer with me". I know what the problem is. You're on the fence, but your sitting at a post, guy...

[arrowflinger]

Your response is also how I know they don't teach history in American schools anymore. 

Of course they teach history in American schools.

They cannot go into the details of the founding fathers' intents and rationale in grade school....that is more likely a graduate course in college law schools.

No need to misrepresent to make your case.

[Doewhacker]

Vjp, Sure there are documents and quotes but that still does not mean you or any one else can speak like you were there and know the guys that wrote it. Although I'm sure you will argue otherwise.

[Mr VJP]

Some of us can research history as well as read though.

Arrowflinger, they teach an incorrect version of history in schools today, at all levels, if they are able to get away with it.  If not, they avoid teaching it at all.

[arrowflinger]

Arrowflinger, they teach an incorrect version of history in schools today, at all levels, if they are able to get away with it.  If not, they avoid teaching it at all.

That sounds extremely paranoid.

You remind me of the Southerners that tell me they teach a different version of Civil War events in the North. :

[Mr VJP]

I'm starting to believe you two must be plants from anti-hunting, anti-gun, left wing liberal lunacy groups.  You don't support any of the rights hunters and gun owners need for their pursuit of happiness.

:

[Doewhacker]

Some of us can research history as well as read though.

Arrowflinger, they teach an incorrect version of history in schools today, at all levels, if they are able to get away with it.  If not, they avoid teaching it at all.

And at the end of the day your opinions and beliefs mean as much as mine or any one else's. Interpret all you wish, you have zero power to change anything in this country as you are but one man. So please, pay your taxes, rant on the internet, point fingers and fall asleep clutching the constitution and a tomorrow life will be the same as it is today.

[Mr VJP]

You're wrong about that.  Because many American's are so clueless, it will be a lot worse.

[arrowflinger]

I'm starting to believe you two must be plants from anti-hunting, anti-gun, left wing liberal lunacy groups.  You don't support any of the rights hunters and gun owners need for their pursuit of happiness.

:

Now why would you say such a thing?

You should not presume that you speak for ALL gunowners, hunters, or Republicans.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Your response is also how I know they don't teach history in American schools anymore. 

Of course they teach history in American schools.

They cannot go into the details of the founding fathers' intents and rationale in grade school....that is more likely a graduate course in college law schools.

No need to misrepresent to make your case.

Arrow, I really think you are over stating the education our kids get. My daughter is a sophomore and taking all Junior courses. she only has one year left of what what would typically be a 12 grade education. I stay very in tune with the topics and she has recieved more instruction in the history of the middle east than the US Constitution. The other thing I have an issue with in their instruction on current affairs. It blows my mind how most kids I run across don't have a clue about what goes on around them. I gre up reading the paper everyday. My daughter think we get it just for the ad flyers and coupons...LOL

[arrowflinger]

You're wrong about that.  Because many American's are so clueless, it will be a lot worse.

I do not like people speaking badly about my country or its citizens.

Please stop doing that. >

[arrowflinger]

Arrow, I really think you are over stating the education our kids get. My daughter is a sophomore and taking all Junior courses. she only has one year left of what what would typically be a 12 grade education. I stay very in tune with the topics and she has recieved more instruction in the history of the middle east than the US Constitution. The other thing I have an issue with in their instruction on current affairs. It blows my mind how most kids I run across don't have a clue about what goes on around them. I gre up reading the paper everyday. My daughter think we get it just for the ad flyers and coupons...LOL

I can honestly state that my kids have gotten a better public school education than I did...no doubt about it.  They were far better prepared to enter and adjust to college life than most from my generation.

[virgil]

just take the assault weapon ban. If they felt it was needed they shoud have done it through ammendment. Go back even further. they did it for fully automatic weapons too. (And I don't think households need them).

careful, if you start mentioning higher education on this thread, you'll really get attacked.

[Mr VJP]

You're wrong about that.  Because many American's are so clueless, it will be a lot worse.

I do not like people speaking badly about my country or its citizens.

Please stop doing that. >

I'm speaking about MY country here, and I'm speaking from my 55 year old point of view.  I've seen America in decline since 1970 and have watched itself corrode from within.  I've seen the left change it into what it is today, a mere shell of what it once was.  Because I love America and it's greatness, I get very depressed with it's current state of affairs and the mindset of some of it's citizens.

I am not bad mouthing this country or all of it's citizens.  I am speaking out against it's possible demise caused by some of it's less than informed, oblivious citizens.

"Experience should teach us to be most on guard to protect Liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent.  Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil minded rulers.  The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding."  Louis Brandeis

[Doewhacker]

Any one else hear that music playin while you read his post? It was far off in the distance but I think it was the Battle hymn of the Republic???

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Any one else hear that music playin while you read his post? It was far off in the distance but I think it was the Battle hymn of the Republic???

Lee Greenwood - god bless the USA is actually playing right now! Too funny! Itunes country station.

[Doewhacker]

Any one else hear that music playin while you read his post? It was far off in the distance but I think it was the Battle hymn of the Republic???

Lee Greenwood - god bless the USA is actually playing right now! Too funny! Itunes country station.

AH HA!  Thats no coincedence my freind!

[arrowflinger]

I'm speaking about MY country here, and I'm speaking from my 55 year old point of view.  I've seen America in decline since 1970 and have watched itself corrode from within.  I've seen the left change it into what it is today, a mere shell of what it once was. 

And I have heard members from every generation claim how much better their version of America was.

In reality, many things have improved since 1970.

Civil rights, certainly.

We defeated the Soviet Union in the cold war....the world is far safer than it was in 1970.

Many incredible improvements in technology that make life easier, and our jobs more efficient.

The USA is still the model for freedom and liberty.  There is no better place to live on the planet.

Demeaning her, whether directly or indirectly, chaps my butt.  Doing so for political posturing annoys me even more.

[Mr VJP]

Any one else hear that music playin while you read his post? It was far off in the distance but I think it was the Battle hymn of the Republic???

Lee Greenwood - god bless the USA is actually playing right now! Too funny! Itunes country station.

AH HA!  Thats no coincedence my freind!

And every time you post, one can hear the theme from "Looney Tunes".

[Doewhacker]

Come on you have to do better than that, you can't try to use my insult back on me..be original, think what the founding fathers would have said since you have a direct line to what was in their heads it shouldn't be to hard.

I'm rubber and your'e glue......