An honest assessment of Islam

[2BRKnot2B]

Thus, I can only assume that someone who likes, or is drawn to it, likes taking from others, stealing, in essence, to support their belief. That, is immoral, and against God's commandment that "Thou shalt not steal."

So you clowns think some of steal from you??  Maybe you guys should get educations and find better jobs?  At Christmas I got a $28,000 bonus from my employer, maybe I can send some money to you fellas?  I'd be more than happy to give to the poor.

I'd be more than happy to accept. Would 90% be fine? That was the rate for the wealthy when I was a wee lad. To me, you're exceptionally wealthy. I don't make that bonus amount in one year. You are a very blessed, and lucky person. And, no, I don't want your money in reality. But, how is stealing mine to promote someone else to my benefit, and why should I comply, except that force is used to take it from me, and threat of harm to my person, individual liberty & rights is threatened if I don't? How does such advance freedom?

[arrowflinger]

And, no, I don't want your money in reality. But, how is stealing mine to promote someone else to my benefit, and why should I comply, except that force is used to take it from me, and threat of harm to my person, individual liberty & rights is threatened if I don't? How does such advance freedom?

You don't feel as though you should have to pay any taxes?

[steve863]

Thus, I can only assume that someone who likes, or is drawn to it, likes taking from others, stealing, in essence, to support their belief. That, is immoral, and against God's commandment that "Thou shalt not steal."

So you clowns think some of steal from you??  Maybe you guys should get educations and find better jobs?  At Christmas I got a $28,000 bonus from my employer, maybe I can send some money to you fellas?  I'd be more than happy to give to the poor.

I'd be more than happy to accept. Would 90% be fine? That was the rate for the wealthy when I was a wee lad. To me, you're exceptionally wealthy. I don't make that bonus amount in one year. You are a very blessed, and lucky person. And, no, I don't want your money in reality. But, how is stealing mine to promote someone else to my benefit, and why should I comply, except that force is used to take it from me, and threat of harm to my person, individual liberty & rights is threatened if I don't? How does such advance freedom?

No, I am not wealthy.  Money really doesn't mean much to me any way.  What I earn is thru hard work.  My only point here is that you'd better think before you shoot your mouth off and make assumptions that those who don't agree with your politics are sponging off the system and YOUR lousy tax money.  If you don't earn in a year what I do from my bonus only, you are obviously not supporting too many people out there with your lousy tax dollars!

[2BRKnot2B]

[pre]"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which

he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas JeffersonThe only thing any of us should have to pay for are those things which aise in Article 1, sec. 8,

of our constitution. Anything else should be done under the discretion of the taxpayer, and an opt in,

or opt out, at the direction of said taxpayer. Also, one may opt in, but later opt out, but one may

never opt out, then in the future opt in.[/pre]

[virgil]

And, no, I don't want your money in reality. But, how is stealing mine to promote someone else to my benefit, and why should I comply, except that force is used to take it from me, and threat of harm to my person, individual liberty & rights is threatened if I don't? How does such advance freedom?

Are you suggesting that there should be no taxes at all?

[2BRKnot2B]

No, I am not wealthy.  Money really doesn't mean much to me any way.  What I earn is thru hard work.  My only point here is that you'd better think before you shoot your mouth off and make assumptions that those who don't agree with your politics are sponging off the system and YOUR lousy tax money.

I never said that. You did. You made an assumption based on an ignorance of what I said. However, there are some out there being paid to e trolls on these forums, to try to convince people of the rightness of their argument which is averse to our constitutional republican governmental form. They would seek to "fundamentally transform" that gov'tal type to one they more prefer. There are those who work who also believe in this form of socialism, even democratic style socialism. Democracy is merely two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat.

If you don;t care about money, that is fine with me. Why do you bother to work, tho? I will not ask about your own giving, because it is none of my business. I have been very lucky in my life, even with the small amount I make. I don;t pretend to support anyone else. I have no pretenses about others, but I do not understand someone who has something being willing to let others decide what to do with what they own/earn. What business is it of there's to take my, or your, money for anything.

"What do we mean when we say that first of all we seek liberty? I often  wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions,  upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are  false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it  dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no  constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it… What is  this liberty that must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the  ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not the freedom to do as one likes.  That is the denial of liberty and leads straight to its overthrow. A  society in which men recognize no check on their freedom soon becomes a  society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few — as we  have learned to our sorrow.

  What then is the spirit of liberty? I cannot define it; I can only tell  you my own faith. The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too  sure that it is right; the spirit of liberty is the spirit which seeks  to understand the minds of other men and women; the spirit of liberty is  the spirit which weighs their interests alongside its own without bias;  the spirit of liberty remembers that not even a sparrow falls to earth  unheeded; the spirit of liberty is the spirit of Him who, near two  thousand years ago, taught mankind that lesson it has never learned, but  has never quite forgotten; that there may be a kingdom where the least  shall be heard and considered side by side with the greatest." 

• Learned Hand, in "The Spirit of Liberty" - a speech at "I Am an American Day" ceremony, Central Park, New York City (21 May 1944)
  

[virgil]

the spirit of liberty is the spirit which seeks  to understand the minds of other men and women; the spirit of liberty is  the spirit which weighs their interests alongside its own without bias;  the spirit of liberty remembers that not even a sparrow falls to earth  unheeded; the spirit of liberty is the spirit of Him who, near two  thousand years ago, taught mankind that lesson it has never learned, but  has never quite forgotten; that there may be a kingdom where the least  shall be heard and considered side by side with the greatest."

Aren't you the guy who just said that another person's needs are not your responsibility or concern?  This is a nice quote that you just posted.  But, it's counter to everything you've been saying.

[steve863]

I never said that. You did. You made an assumption based on an ignorance of what I said.

I don;t pretend to support anyone else. I have no pretenses about others, but I do not understand someone who has something being willing to let others decide what to do with what they own/earn. What business is it of there's to take my, or your, money for anything.

I make NO assumptions.  You have been talking about others taking your money in several posts now.  So exactly who is taking any money from you other than tax money?  Wouldn't you exercise your 2nd amendment rights if someone cornered you to turn over your wallet?  LOL

[Mr VJP]

Thus, I can only assume that someone who likes, or is drawn to it, likes taking from others, stealing, in essence, to support their belief. That, is immoral, and against God's commandment that "Thou shalt not steal."

So you clowns think some of steal from you??  Maybe you guys should get educations and find better jobs?  At Christmas I got a $28,000 bonus from my employer, maybe I can send some money to you fellas?  I'd be more than happy to give to the poor.

You don't mention the type of work you do, or the education level you have.  But you make a pretty big assumption about others in this post.  Then later on you claim to make no assumptions.

I've never judged a man by the size of his wallet, preferring to look at his intelligence and character more closely.

But if what you say in the above post is true, based upon what you have revealed to us here on these forums, i believe you are either vastly over paid, or your boss is a fool, who's money he has too soon parted with.

Besides, don't you know it's rude to ask others what they earn, or presume to make more or less than someone else?  You have obviously suffered major neglect in your upbringing with regards to manners and social ineptitude.

[arrowflinger]

You have not answered the question....do you feel you should pay no taxes?

[Mr VJP]

No, I just feel the taxes I pay should be spent for the improvement of America, not wasted on things that provide no return on the investment.

How about you?  What do you think you should pay in taxes and what should they be spent on?

[arrowflinger]

No, I just feel the taxes I pay should be spent for the improvement of America, not wasted on things that provide no return on the investment.

How about you?  What do you think you should pay in taxes and what should they be spent on?

I am fine with paying taxes, but agree that they should not be wasted.

[nyantler]

hmmm...yet you are ok with the health care bill Arrow?

[arrowflinger]

hmmm...yet you are ok with the health care bill Arrow?

Nope.  Hate the Health Care bill.

[nyantler]

ok just curious..

[Mr VJP]

nyantler,  it seems it is sometimes hard to tell who is who at this point, no?

;D

[nyantler]

I know.. I must have been thinking of virgil..

[steve863]

Thus, I can only assume that someone who likes, or is drawn to it, likes taking from others, stealing, in essence, to support their belief. That, is immoral, and against God's commandment that "Thou shalt not steal."

So you clowns think some of steal from you??  Maybe you guys should get educations and find better jobs?  At Christmas I got a $28,000 bonus from my employer, maybe I can send some money to you fellas?  I'd be more than happy to give to the poor.

You don't mention the type of work you do, or the education level you have.  But you make a pretty big assumption about others in this post.  Then later on you claim to make no assumptions.

I've never judged a man by the size of his wallet, preferring to look at his intelligence and character more closely.

But if what you say in the above post is true, based upon what you have revealed to us here on these forums, i believe you are either vastly over paid, or your boss is a fool, who's money he has too soon parted with.

Besides, don't you know it's rude to ask others what they earn, or presume to make more or less than someone else?  You have obviously suffered major neglect in your upbringing with regards to manners and social ineptitude.

Why don't you stop twisting things around, I asked no one what they make.  Others were making assumptions here that just because we don't agree with your politics we must somehow be sponging off the system and YOUR tax dollars. Well, I've got news for some of you.  Who the hell are you to think I am overpaid?? I have worked for the same employer for 17 years and not once did I ask for a raise or any bonuses.  They have given them to me based on my work performance.  I am grateful that they have been good to me and I guess they have noticed that I appreciate it.  You make a freaking BIG assumption that I judge a man by their wallet for I surely don't.  I come from a very modest background and me, my wife and kids continue to live modestly no matter what my salary is.  YOU idiots were the first to think that we who don't agree with the BS you guys spew must be some freeloading spongers who don't want to work for a living.  You really need to stop this BS VJP, because even someone with a first grade education can surely see what you really are.

[Mr VJP]

And their comprehension skills are probably better than, and less presumptuous, than yours.  Go back and read the prior posts.  You may see they contradict what you just posted yourself.

[arrowflinger]

You never really answered the questions regarding taxes, and who is stealing from you.

Do you think you should not have to pay taxes?

[steve863]

You only see and comprehend what YOU want to.  You can think whatever the hell you want of me, like I will sweat over what an idiot like you might say.  YOU were the first here that basically said anyone who doesn't belong to the organizations you belong to or think like you do is not welcome in YOUR hunting group.  That is honestly ALL you needed to say for us to know that you are one extremely narrow minded and misguided person.  My condolences.

[Mr VJP]

It's called freedom of association.  Another one of the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.  You know, that document you don't want to apply equally to opinions you don't agree with.

Any way, this thread has run it's course and devolved into juvenile name calling and diversion on your part.  I tire now of the witless banter and will make no further posts on this thread.  I'm sure I'll find you personally attacking me in some of my future posts though.  Try to address the topics as best you can in the future.

Thanks for playing.

[virgil]

I have to agree with the name calling complaint.  I'm all for a spirited debate.  But, we should keep in mind that we probably have more in common that we'd like to admit. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well I do have an issue paying taxes as they are structured now. I believe the feds overstep their application. I can understand taxes to fund services such as infrastructure...military...epa and things that stretch across state lines. I believe a lot of what the fed dips their hands into should be handled on the state level and no money should be directed to charity concerns....ie welfare…i should be the only one that has the input on where my contributions are spent.

We are paying so many layers of multiple taxes it isn't even funny

[arrowflinger]

Well I do have an issue paying taxes as they are structured now. I believe the feds overstep their application. I can understand taxes to fund services such as infrastructure...military...epa and things that stretch across state lines. I believe a lot of what the fed dips their hands into should be handled on the state level and no money should be directed to charity concerns....ie welfare…i should be the only one that has the input on where my contributions are spent.

We are paying so many layers of multiple taxes it isn't even funny

Yea, I always thought it would be cool if there was a checklist that we could assign our taxes to different categories....like defense.

It would become quickly apparent to our lawmakers what programs the nation thought were important...and what was not.