Leasing Ruins Conservation

[growalot]

I don't know is hunting still allowed on Townline road...Do they allow hunting in the old Kodak park area around River road...I know several people that work at RIT that would love to hit the deer on that property...want to talk about the unused corporate lands that have been bought and not developed yet.. Lets head out towards the Victor area where I had family living and drove through to go to work everyday...and with a family in commercial construction ...I haven't a clue as to how much land is out there. who owns Mendon ponds park? Yep  you missed the whole lawyers are hired to advise and perhaps you should realize they do not pay these law firms just to disregard their advise. In other words this feel good incentive for the areas you mention won't and can not ever happen.

Edited September 7, 2016 by growalot

[growalot]

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That's the difference right there! Those of us who own land know exactly how much we pay because the Gov. Sends us a bill!
 

Yes Buckmaster I just got 6 of those in the mail yesterday....

[Padre86]

4 minutes ago, growalot said:

I don't know is hunting still allowed on Townline road...Do they allow hunting in the old Kodak park area around River road...I know several people that work at RIT that would love to hit the deer on that property...want to talk about the unused corporate lands that have been bought and not developed yet.. Lets head out towards the Victor area where I had family living and drove through to go to work everyday...and with a family in commercial construction ...I haven't a clue as to how much land is out there. who owns Mendon ponds park? Yep  you missed the whole lawyers are hired to advise and perhaps you should realize they do not pay these law firms just to disregard their advise.

You're welcome to join me for a hunt in Carlton Hill this coming fall.  As well, I'd be more than happy to show you around Rochester so you can see for yourself where the deer have really started to congregate.  Corporate lands and college campuses are simply examples of places where the excess deer end up when their #'s get out of control in the rural areas and municipal parks.

A lot of these rural, and even some suburban, areas, both private and public land, would be perfectly suited to bow-hunting if the local towns were open to it.

[Doewhacker]

This thread is circling the bowl.

 

If you cant find private land to hunt somewhere by knocking on doors and so on, there might be something wrong in your approach. Leasing may make it more difficult to get permission but I wouldn't sat it ruins conservation.

[phade]

39 minutes ago, growalot said:

Wow Phade...So I miss understood where the quarry was in your post and you respond  in that manner? You give example of little used large expanses of land around where you hunt, stating:

So I ask you questions to better understand why this is what you experience. Then your response was:

Well I'd apologize but I'm not quiet sure what it would be for...

Let me add this though...according to the OP and Padre...you and your leases are a big part of the problem, remember that.

While I don't have a current lease, I'm simply privately incenting the landowner when I do. Lest I remind you, that you just complained about people not coming up to you to offer to offset some tax burden.

Grow - there's no point in conversing further with you on this issue because we won't agree.

[growalot]

No thank you but here's and Idea... seeing I live in these areas( have a beautiful view of Hemlock from a few stands and I'm out every single day hunting during the season... You listen carefully and PLAN accordingly...you come on out to Canadice ,Hemlock, Rattlesnake hill, Harriet Hollister. Those are close enough, I could give you a few more a bit farther, but don't want to tax you...Now wait until Monday or Tuesday after the opener if your frightened and you will see plenty of deer.. Then plan on hunting the week days in any of those areas. That said, you actually still need to do a little work by scouting these areas ahead of time.....sshhhh  don't tell anyone, but you actually need to do that on private or leased lands as well.

[phade]

My last post on the subject - only to follow up on an earlier post I made about the DEC ALREADY INCENTING landowners for rights to private ground for fishing.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9922.html

People can tell themselves stories "oh it can't and won't work" for landowners to be incented. Give me a break, we've already proven it works. We already do it for conservation/sporting purposes for fishing. The same degree of lawyer focus would be paid on a fishing or a hunting incentive/access situation because there is inherent risk with both; one more than the other doesn't lessen the degree of "lawyering" on the matter.

And, in conclusion, the implication that people should simply "work harder" on public land just further demonstrates how little they grasp of the actual topic and the crux of the conversation. It really is telling.

[Padre86]

33 minutes ago, growalot said:

No thank you but here's and Idea... seeing I live in these areas( have a beautiful view of Hemlock from a few stands and I'm out every single day hunting during the season... You listen carefully and PLAN accordingly...you come on out to Canadice ,Hemlock, Rattlesnake hill, Harriet Hollister. Those are close enough, I could give you a few more a bit farther, but don't want to tax you...Now wait until Monday or Tuesday after the opener if your frightened and you will see plenty of deer.. Then plan on hunting the week days in any of those areas. That said, you actually still need to do a little work by scouting these areas ahead of time.....sshhhh  don't tell anyone, but you actually need to do that on private or leased lands as well.

In all honesty Grow, weekday hunting is going to be a very likely approach for me.  I am inclined to agree that the "traffic" out there will be a lot less compared to the weekends.  And yes I agree scouting is important, for any hunter.

That said, weekday hunting of those areas will entail 1-1.5 hour commutes, one way.  This means I need to take off from work (despite being a "have-not," I do have an 8-5 job ).

Again, I'm not trying to earn sympathy from anyone.  But I do maintain that the access and logistics behind hunting for some people living in Rochester and Buffalo isn't so simple and easy as some here make it out to be.

 

On that note, I acknowledge that my point has been thoroughly beaten to death and the floor is yours...

Edited September 7, 2016 by Padre86

[growalot]

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We already do it for conservation/sporting purposes for fishing. The same degree of lawyer focus would be paid on a fishing or a hunting incentive/access situation because there is inherent risk with both; one more than the other doesn't lessen the degree of "lawyering" on the matter.

diluting the conversation...difference between corporate and private..also how many fishing incentive programs are in Rochester and the areas I said this wouldn't work? I'll answer that 5..in Monroe county...That said the program STARTED in 1935, when do you think these purchases or leases were made? Different times folks

Edited September 7, 2016 by growalot

[growalot]

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While I don't have a current lease, I'm simply privately incenting the landowner when I do. Lest I remind you, that you just complained about people not coming up to you to offer to offset some tax burden.

Grow - there's no point in conversing further with you on this issue because we won't agree.

Why tell me that Phade...tell Padre he had the problem with people that lease up the land. I also did not complain about about people not offering to off set my taxes..I said:

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How many times have any of you heard....... Hey, when can I help you out with your taxes so I can enjoy hunting a season or  Hey,when can I help out with your taxes, so I can enjoy some trapping and make money for my self off your land.

When I make a complaint...I'm usually pretty specific on stating it's an actual complaint, that was merely an observation.

Your right about one thing..no we won't agree ,especially when I try to get clarification to your post and the response takes a wide birth of the questions and swings back in on some angst you have towards me.

[phade]

Grow - thanks but no thanks. Have a good day.


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[Buckmaster7600]

Correct me if I'm wrong, most of you whom are complaining about access are from a city correct? I have never lived in a city and never will but I would be willing to bet that city folk that hunt have had a harder time gaining access to private land and had to travel further/work harder to hunt public lands as well.


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

Regardless, If a person from the city wants to hunt bad enough they will find places to hunt. Leases do eat up land but thats the same practice in farming. People lease our fields for crops and there is still plenty to go around. An hour drive to go on an 8 hour hunt on some of the best state land there is was/is and will always be a no brainer for me. Except for me its 21/2 hour one way.

 

[phade]

9 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Regardless, If a person from the city wants to hunt bad enough they will find places to hunt. Leases do eat up land but thats the same practice in farming. People lease our fields for crops and there is still plenty to go around. An hour drive to go on an 8 hour hunt on some of the best state land there is was/is and will always be a no brainer for me. Except for me its 21/2 hour one way.

 

That doesn't answer the conservation issue though - deer still need shot on all that land he goes by in that hour drive.

I think that's equally the issue.

[Chef]

Regardless, If a person from the city wants to hunt bad enough they will find places to hunt. Leases do eat up land but thats the same practice in farming. People lease our fields for crops and there is still plenty to go around. An hour drive to go on an 8 hour hunt on some of the best state land there is was/is and will always be a no brainer for me. Except for me its 21/2 hour one way.

 

Agreed! I live right outside Nyc..... Saved my pennies and bought land in the Catskills... 1.5 hrs from my home.... I will be closing before the end of the month and will spend every weekend there


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

16 minutes ago, phade said:

That doesn't answer the conservation issue though - deer still need shot on all that land he goes by in that hour drive.

I think that's equally the issue.

Oh i am sure the guys paying the cash are filling their fair share of tags. They just are going about it their way with their choices on what and how many will be harvested or let to carry on another year.

[stoneam2006]

That doesn't answer the conservation issue though - deer still need shot on all that land he goes by in that hour drive.

I think that's equally the issue.

That's the problem here they don't seem to get that...and we are not talking about the family's that hunt thier 100 acres we are talking about farms or parcels that either no one hunts or has so little hunting pressure that the deer just stay there. Land access is a huge issue thru out the fingerlakes and it causes population problems which causes doe only seasons.

And grow you talk so much about these statelands...when was the last time you hunted deer on them? I hunt them all except the one by hemlock as I just haven't gotten over there...you seem to think there are deer all over if your lucky you will get 1 shot a year normally a fawn or small buck (obviously no always). Wanna know why bc the deer flock to the unpressured private land nearby and lay low for the season. I know most statelands thru naples middlesex Bristol like the back of my hand and can normally get 1 a year somewhere up there. But the dec says I need to take 4 that's the problem....again as phade said unless to talk to you about it bc apparently you don't understand conservation and population control and we all know how you feel about the dec and their ways.

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[Buckmaster7600]

That doesn't answer the conservation issue though - deer still need shot on all that land he goes by in that hour drive.

I think that's equally the issue.

If NY would smarten up and issue # of tags based on acres owned and not the same amount for everyone this issue would be almost solved.

Although I am against it as well the same ones that are complaining about not enough deer being shot are the same ones that complain when people fill other people's tags. By your theory of not enough deer being killed they are doing everyone a favor!


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

29 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

That's the problem here they don't seem to get that...and we are not talking about the family's that hunt thier 100 acres we are talking about farms or parcels that either no one hunts or has so little hunting pressure that the deer just stay there. Land access is a huge issue thru out the fingerlakes and it causes population problems which causes doe only seasons.

And grow you talk so much about these statelands...when was the last time you hunted deer on them? I hunt them all except the one by hemlock as I just haven't gotten over there...you seem to think there are deer all over if your lucky you will get 1 shot a year normally a fawn or small buck (obviously no always). Wanna know why bc the deer flock to the unpressured private land nearby and lay low for the season. I know most statelands thru naples middlesex Bristol like the back of my hand and can normally get 1 a year somewhere up there. But the dec says I need to take 4 that's the problem....again as phade said unless to talk to you about it bc apparently you don't understand conservation and population control and we all know how you feel about the dec and their ways.

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Really, You have problems finding and seeing good deer on Rattlesnake?  We never seem to not see deer when we stay at the Hill. I would imagine its like most places..Depends where ya hunt.

[stoneam2006]

If NY would smarten up and issue # of tags based on acres owned and not the same amount for everyone this issue would be almost solved.

Although I am against it as well the same ones that are complaining about not enough deer being shot are the same ones that complain when people fill other people's tags. By your theory of not enough deer being killed they are doing everyone a favor!


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Idk who fills tags they paid for them....and as far as rattlesnake goes thanksgiving is first day I get there for gun season and by then the deer are skiddish and scared been hunting it 10 plus years normally good for 1 a year there

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[The_Real_TCIII]

I'd like to read this thread on the forum of a state that doesn't have the awesome parcels of public land that NY has. We are very lucky IMO


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[growalot]

Again when faced with there are people that not only hunt in some of these very hard to see deer areas...... live and have hiked ,and have friends that hunt these areas. Where the deer have run away from, according to you. Well faced with the actual facts that people are seeing and killing ,BTW some huge buck  you still insist on what a hardship these places are...sorry it's just not flying,Ever think it's the people that are hunting and not the one way street to greener pasture you should be blaming.

Again these little pressured properties...gosh who'd think that ,especially property owners, would choose to stay with their bows ...even during gun season...and in these non pressured areas, how often and hours are YOU actually hunting them to conclude they aren't being pressured? See you can say I know nothing about conservation...and BWT the DEC never told you you NEEDED to shoot 4 deer...you don't know how the tag system is figured, obviously.. Really think about this, What do you ACTUALLY think would happen if by some freak cosmic joke , each and every hunter that had 4 tags to fill, actually actually 6, filled them?

[Buckmaster7600]

If conservation is the biggest problem why not allow hunters to fill others tags? This won't cost us any tax money and will solve some of the problem.


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[Zag]

You all should have a state land challenge. Strictly hunt state land all deer season and who ever shoots the most deer/ biggest point buck wins something.

[growalot]

OMG...  we couldn't do that!...The entire states conservation system would implode and swirl the bowl to the netherlands...You know all the lease holders and land owners aren't pressuring the hordes of deer running to us enough as it is! It would be CATASTROPHIC...Opppss For got to ...hahahahahaha

Edited September 7, 2016 by growalot