Leasing Ruins Conservation

[Doewhacker]

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I'd like to read this thread on the forum of a state that doesn't have the awesome parcels of public land that NY has. We are very lucky IMO


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IMO other states near us have way way better state land or other public lands open to hunting. Like not even close. Just one mans opinion. 

[stoneam2006]

You all should have a state land challenge. Strictly hunt state land all deer season and who ever shoots the most deer/ biggest point buck wins something.

These private land owners wouldn't know what to do without there tree huts and patterned deer...

Not talking about all here either some talk like they know

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[stoneam2006]

OMG...  we couldn't do that!...The entire states conservation system would implode and swirl the bowl to the netherlands...You know all the lease holders and land owners aren't pressuring the hordes of deer running to us enough as it is! It would be CATASTROPHIC...Opppss For got to ...hahahahahaha

You truly have lost it.....apparently this whole tread is about Grows land and how she doesn't shoot enough deer....enough already we are talking about mass landowners and farmers who either don't hunt it or only have very very limited pressure or lease it to horn hunters in areas where population control has become an issue. Again this is not about your personal land grow...

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[Chef]

These private land owners wouldn't know what to do without there tree huts and patterned deer...

Not talking about all here either some talk like they know

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Lol yea so not true, I started out public.... Oh and on private I still hunt from a mix of my climber ladder stands and ground blinds


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[stoneam2006]

Lol yea so not true, I started out public.... Oh and on private I still hunt from a mix of my climber ladder stands and ground blinds


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It's says some

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[growalot]

You need to step back and gather your self Stone..Zag said Everyone hunt state land...Now seeing you put a quote up of my words...point out where I even implied it was just about me...for one thing..I do not lease...Now you and Phade are right about one thing...it has nothing to do with me...Then again...this entire thread had NOTHING TO DO WITH CONSERVATION EITHER. You want people to think that but, too many times you and a couple of others just couldn't get away from the it's just so hard to hunt public land. Now that's not assumption on my part...those are statements repeated by you and others. The assumptions have come from you and others on how lease holders and land owners aren't doing enough. When I asked a few questions on this  the posts went into attacks..which is fine and expected...easier than trying to come up with a reasonable answer...deflection.

[stoneam2006]

Ok.....good luck this season

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[growalot]

You too....

[Padre86]

3 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

IMO other states near us have way way better state land or other public lands open to hunting. Like not even close. Just one mans opinion. 

I'm heading up to the ADK's for a weekend or two this coming season for both bear and deer (firearm season).  There is plenty of public land up there, a lot of it easily accessible....the density of game, especially deer, just isn't as high as other parts of NY.  It's almost an inverse of the problem we have in western NY, where there are plenty of deer, just not a lot of public lands to access them by.

 

But in general, I agree with what you're saying.  The rural areas south of Rochester are teeming with deer; there just isn't much, if anything, in the form of public land to access them, at least not in Monroe.

[moog5050]

Wow this thread went a bit off the tracks.  I didn't read it all, but  I guess most agree that there are areas with high deer populations where controlling those populations is difficult because large land tracks are owned by people or entities that either allow limited or no hunting.  How to fix it, who knows.  Will tax breaks work?  Perhaps for some of these owners, but for some it may not.  Will a business entity allow hunters on?  Perhaps if the incentive is big enough. 

Would a lawyer recommend it, depends on the desire on the client.  If the client says, I want to utilize this tax incentive because it will save me $200k a year in taxes (an example only), my response would be to advise of the risks (economic, suits, neighbor considerations, municipal relationships) of opening the land, and then after an informed discussion, the client would make the decision and I would do my best help the owner limit the risk if the client still wanted to utilize that incentive, be it releases, acknowledgement of assumed risks, and appropriate insurances.  Lots at play here.  There is no doubt that its tough to manage deer on lands where hunting is limited or prohibited.  I still don't see how leasing equates to ruining conservation, but that seemed to stop being the topic at some point.

[Core]

18 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I'd like to read this thread on the forum of a state that doesn't have the awesome parcels of public land that NY has. We are very lucky IMO


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Mostly that is true, but if you live in Rochester or Buffalo it is more debatable.

[Core]

I'm not shedding tears. I hunt what I can because I've not yet spent a nickel on access to land and that's the bed I made. One day I may. Until then, I need to take what I can get and I don't demand free access to anybody's land (nobody in this thread has). And to be frank I am not (yet?) motivated by conservation. The state is, though, and so perhaps it could find itself supporting some program to incentivize private land owners to open up to the public.

That said, let's get real: public land is generally harder to hunt than private. Everyone here knows it, perhaps more than others those who actually have spent considerable money on their private land. Let's squash any notion to the contrary. You won't find public land guys talking about their food plots and another ladder stand they just put in.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

18 minutes ago, Core said:

Mostly that is true, but if you live in Rochester or Buffalo it is more debatable.

Why is it debatable? I dream of being down in that area closer to some of the best hunting in the state. Time and means have to be givin by the hunter but you have some of the best hunting in the state in your backyard.

[Core]

30 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Why is it debatable? I dream of being down in that area closer to some of the best hunting in the state. Time and means have to be givin by the hunter but you have some of the best hunting in the state in your backyard.

Well if you live in Rochester for example, you're a 40 min drive to some pretty small parcels of public land which, I understand (I haven't checked them personally as I go east) have a lot of people per acre. These are small chunks of mainly bow-only hunting. There is, of course, a reason why people pay to lease land I posted a screen shot a couple days back showing the dearth of public land in western ny (until you get closer to PA).

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, Core said:

Well if you live in Rochester for example, you're a 40 min drive to some pretty small parcels of public land which, I understand (I haven't checked them personally as I go east) have a lot of people per acre. These are small chunks of mainly bow-only hunting. There is, of course, a reason why people pay to lease land I posted a screen shot a couple days back showing the dearth of public land in western ny (until you get closer to PA).

Have you ever hunted Letchworth or Rattlesnake?

[Core]

4 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Have you ever hunted Letchworth or Rattlesnake?

Neither. Both are an hour and a half from me.

I didn't say state land was bad, I said it's typically inferior to private and also that around rochester/buffalo it's less accessible than in the rest of the state.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Where are you in Rochester that you are 11/2 hour from the park? Zip right down 390, I wish i was that close. I leave 1000 acres of our great farm land to drive 3 hours to our camp to spend 5 weeks hunting the park. Ya get out what ya put in!

[Padre86]

52 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Where are you in Rochester that you are 11/2 hour from the park? Zip right down 390, I wish i was that close. I leave 1000 acres of our great farm land to drive 3 hours to our camp to spend 5 weeks hunting the park. Ya get out what ya put in!

Letchworth is easily an hour from Rochester, maybe less if you live in the southern suburbs.  Rattlesnake is a bit more than that.

I know shotgun, archery and muzzleloading are allowed in Letchworth, but I haven't spent much time scouting that area, so I couldn't tell you what it's deer scene is like.   

And you have a hunting camp at Letchworth that you spend 5 weeks at?  The camp is actually within the state park?  I had no idea they allowed that.  Do you hunt in the gorge along the river or on the high ground?

 

Edit: And seriously?  Why are you talking about how you "wish" you could live closer to Letchworth SP when Tug Hill, the Adirondacks and all kinds of other state lands are literally right at your doorstep?  You live in Jefferson County, right?  

Edited September 8, 2016 by Padre86

[The_Real_TCIII]

59 minutes ago, Core said:

Well if you live in Rochester for example, you're a 40 min drive to some pretty small parcels of public land which, I understand (I haven't checked them personally as I go east) have a lot of people per acre. These are small chunks of mainly bow-only hunting. There is, of course, a reason why people pay to lease land I posted a screen shot a couple days back showing the dearth of public land in western ny (until you get closer to PA).

 

55 minutes ago, Core said:

Neither. Both are an hour and a half from me.

I didn't say state land was bad, I said it's typically inferior to private and also that around rochester/buffalo it's less accessible than in the rest of the state.

 

My closest spot is an hour, the others are an hour and a half. Youre a bowhunter, you might be surprised how good some of the public land is

[jjb4900]

hunting State land is not always easy, neither is finding the time to scout it, but good land is there to be had.....and it's basically free. I spend time each year looking at new property and have never had a problem finding good stuff, spots that are good one year may not be the next and I have a few plan A, B & C's......like I've said previously, I've pretty much hunted public land exclusively for years, never had a complaint or envied a landowner.....owning land has many downfalls as well, and I'm sure those who do own can probably give you a list of them. I've known private landowners who had great hunting that over the years slowly turned to crap and they couldn't just walk away, I'm sure they could have done things to help improve it, but not everyone has the time and means to do so, not everyone lives on the land they own and aren't there 24/7 to do the things that need to be done. I know people who own 50-100 acres and year after year do worse then myself and family who hunt public land......I bet for every one landowner who dumps time and money into creating great hunting habitat, there's 10 who do nothing.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, Padre86 said:

Letchworth is easily an hour from Rochester, maybe less if you live in the southern suburbs.  Rattlesnake is a bit more than that.

I know shotgun, archery and muzzleloading are allowed in Letchworth, but I haven't spent much time scouting that area, so I couldn't tell you what it's deer scene is like.   

And you have a hunting camp at Letchworth that you spend 5 weeks at?  The camp is actually within the state park?  I had no idea they allowed that.  Do you hunt in the gorge along the river or on the high ground?

 

Edit: And seriously?  Why are you talking about how you "wish" you could live closer to Letchworth SP when Tug Hill, the Adirondacks and all kinds of other state lands are literally right at your doorstep?  You live in Jefferson County, right?  

You got that right. We own 798 acres of some pretty awesome hunting and i still spend more time at camp down there. Camp is just outside Castile entrance and we have 129 acres that border the safety zone on the Mt Morris entrance.

After 40 years hunting both spots i can promise you that you will never find the bucks in this area that i find in that. That is a proven fact. Anyone in that area that does not use those 2 places for their hunting are missing the boat..Big Time!!!

[growalot]

Just got back from my walk ...had a lot of thinking..debating ...This is definitely not going to go over well   too bad.

I love all the assumption that land owners don't know anything about hunting public land...I can say with confidence,I've been hunting and going out with others hunting since before many of you were a mere twinkle in your daddy's eye,perhaps before your daddy was old enough to pop his first pimple. I did not have my lands then  or any land...Now I have a whole bunch of land owners here, I'm sure with the same back ground. Assumptions...

Now here is a simple fact, I say fact because I've been on not only this but many sites as far back as when MSN had all those forums open....I can also say and with confidence....

There are a good many of you that couldn't find a deer, without  scrapes scat,rubs,acorns,apples or foot prints right under your noses...if you were trapped in a paper bag with them. You walk out into the woods absolutely clueless as to your surroundings..no knowledge of plants ,trees, land features...little knowledge of the subtle connections of game to habitat. Good many of you can't even recognize what a non rutting deer smells like...clueless as to why they choose certain wild forbes at certain times. Bed in areas or choose where to go during the chase phase. Where and why they tuck away their fawns in areas. The connection between other game in the area. The list is long....

 What I hear is public land it too far away ,public land is too crowded,public land has few deer...there are only fawn and little buck...no time to scout.  Just stop, Please, pick up some GOOD books ...go spend your off season walking ...turn the stupid phone off and leave your gadgets at home...Get a good book on plants...study what deer eat instead of what they MIGHT doing during hunting..watch how birds, deer, fox ,turkey, squirrels connect in the woods...Just stop blaming others and the state and God for you having a difficult time doing something you've not prepared for... .

 Now you can rage and get nasty and bitter over what I just said...It's fully expected...but be clear on this..I didn't say any of it to be nasty..I am pointing out what I have been observing and reading for a good many years....

[Chef]

Threads like this ruin this forum


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[jjb4900]

7 minutes ago, chefhunter86 said:

Threads like this ruin this forum


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yeah, it kinda borders on being comical and embarrassing. 

[Chef]

yeah, it kinda borders on being comical and embarrassing. 

I agree, I have my opinions on the matter and have stated them... But at this point everyone has beaten the dead horse and shot it a few times too! Yes there may be a access problem in certain areas but we live in a capitalist society and it is what it is... Should the towns open up town land to bow hunting 100%. Should town ordinance that prevent bow hunting in a town even if you have enough land be down away with 100% but the rest of it is what it is.... And people need to learn to deal with the hand they have been dealt and STFU


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