What happened to the Xbow inclusion thread?

[Jeremy K]

I'm not even sure what LJC stance is on any of this after reading through all this ,am I the only one?

[LJC]

3 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

I'm not even sure what LJC stance is on any of this after reading through all this ,am I the only one?

My stance is I like the way things are right now .

But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they  change the seasons  or just make xbows illegal again . Which could happen . You guys talking about full seasons when they may ban xbows altogether anytime now for all you know the xbow is still on probation as far as DEC is concerned I believe. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by LJC

[Doc]

Well, this has been a fun topic, but I don't see any opinions moving one way or another. Bowseason apparently will become the catch-all for whatever anyone wants to shove in there. I'll always be willing to offer my opinions, but I have no expectations of changing the course of where bowhunting is headed. Maybe it is time to open up all of the early season to whatever anyone wants to use. Perhaps the idea of reserving a time for the bowhunting has outlived its era of acceptance in the hunting world. Bowhunting continues to evolve to the point where maybe a separate season isn't even required anymore. It sure is beginning to look like it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/28/2016 at 10:36 PM, LJC said:

Maybe  so why change things .

Leave as is 

Added opportunity, and a crossbow is just another form of archery equipment, so why not include it? Just like during gun season you can choose to hunt with (in most areas) a semi auto rifle, a bolt rifle, a single shot rifle, a shotgun, a muzzle loader or even a pistol. Its up to you what kind of a challenge you want to present yourself. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/28/2016 at 10:42 PM, LJC said:

Why if you are good with a bow would you want to use a xbow in all of archery .

That makes no sense .  If I could shoot a recurve as good as my compound bow I would never use a  compound bow for example . Be honest you don't want to take the time to get really good with your compound bow   and know xbow easier you will be able to take more deer with it that's why so simple .  

Read my reply to your other question.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/28/2016 at 10:57 PM, LJC said:

Seriously  guys let's  stop playing games here  f the bows and Xbows then  and let's just go to the next level the airbow .

Because that is  what's going to happen. 

With this line of thinking I see from you guys  it's already being push in other states . 

See, thats just you being reactionary and taking things to a totally different place. Thats usually what happens when you know you dont have a legit point to argue anymore. The "airbow" is not archery equipment, its an airgun. Crossbows still fling an arrow with limb and string power.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/28/2016 at 11:03 PM, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

I just like to commend the moderation and administration for deleting the other thread and never correcting or responding to this one ,,, good job !!!!

I actually dont know where the other thread went.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/29/2016 at 7:42 AM, Doc said:

So, can I now assume that you will be campaigning to share the bowseasons with the rifle hunters to "allow more hunters in the woods to enjoy the season".

Invalid argument. We are talking about archery equipment here, not guns.

[stoneam2006]

Invalid argument. We are talking about archery equipment here, not guns.

Like times 100000 apparently to hard to grasp

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[Core]

On 10/28/2016 at 5:52 PM, zeus1gdsm said:

After seeing my gun only hunting buddy pick up a new crossbow and drill quarter sized groups at 40yards with a stock sniper 370. He had assembled it wrong and I had to reassemble it for him. he shot like that with no prior experience. 2 shots to dial in at 20 yards.
I immediately understood why people are against it.
 

This is why we can't have full inclusion. Crossbows are getting better by spades year after year. This will keep happening and full inclusion will guarantee much higher harvesting rates during bow season.This will necessarily, unequivocally result in revocation of DMP availability for some, and poorer hunting chances and or reduced season. The people who should be most stringently against full inclusion are gun hunters because if they don't get on board and get a badass crossbow, they will be increasingly picking up the scraps come mid-November.

A 440 FPS crossbow is essentially doubling your killing range over a crossbow because those arrows are flying insanely flat. This will just keep getting more so. 500, 550 FPS, will just keep marching crossbows up in range, threatening the distance deer are typically taken with a gun in this state.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Core

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, Core said:

This is why we can't have full inclusion. Crossbows are getting better by spades year after year. This will keep happening and full inclusion will guarantee much higher harvesting rates during bow season.This will necessarily, unequivocally result in revocation of DMP availability for some, and poorer hunting chances and or reduced season. The people who should be most stringently against full inclusion are gun hunters because if they don't get on board and get a badass crossbow, they will be increasingly picking up the scraps come mid-November.

Vertical bows are improving year after year as well. Whats your point?

[Core]

4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Vertical bows are improving year after year as well. Whats your point?

Not really. They have virtually hit a wall. This is a fact based on physics; once they hit 100% efficiency, and they are approaching it, they tap out. Crossbows are nowhere near their wall and are already 2-3X the KE of a bow, with flat trajectories that a compound will probably never achieve.

[Core]

My point is if you guys think you can march around the woods from october first with a 440 or 500 or 600 FPS crossbow (when they are created) and the gun guys are going to happily sit waiting another 7 weeks for you to take down all the big bucks, you're living a fantasy. This thread simply portends another a few years down the line from gun guys asking if they should have full inclusion. And you'll be right there whining that guns aren't archery equipment so they shouldn't be able to benefit from an early season, even though you're hitting deer with 150+ foot lbs of energy at 80 yards.

[Core]

Here's the link about compound being nearly tapped out. http://www.outdoorlife.com/features/chasing-speed-fastest-compound-bow/

[LJC]

14 minutes ago, Core said:

My point is if you guys think you can march around the woods from october first with a 440 or 500 or 600 FPS crossbow (when they are created) and the gun guys are going to happily sit waiting another 7 weeks for you to take down all the big bucks, you're living a fantasy. This thread simply portends another a few years down the line from gun guys asking if they should have full inclusion. And you'll be right there whining that guns aren't archery equipment so they shouldn't be able to benefit from an early season, even though you're hitting deer with 150+ foot lbs of energy at 80 yards.

That's why there not going to change it you guys are dreaming 

[LJC]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Added opportunity, and a crossbow is just another form of archery equipment, so why not include it? Just like during gun season you can choose to hunt with (in most areas) a semi auto rifle, a bolt rifle, a single shot rifle, a shotgun, a muzzle loader or even a pistol. Its up to you what kind of a challenge you want to present yourself. 

If you don't have a separate season for  bow . Pretty soon almost  nobody will

Use a bow .

That's why you want a separate season for xbows 

It's so simple . 

[brownclown]

1 hour ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

Like times 100000 apparently to hard to grasp

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This another area of big disagreement among those for and against full inclusion. Yes xbows share similar features with compounds BUT they also share features with guns. The features that they share with guns are so advantageous that most Archers feel justify there exclusion from the archery season. And before this cycles back to what about advantages over trad bows. Every compound user here argues that they should have there own season as well. None of you that argue for inclusion have any argument besides whining "it's not fair". My opinion is to split it evenly 1st trad, then compound, then xbow. Also wanted to add that on private land use whatever you want.

Edited October 31, 2016 by brownclown
add info

[stoneam2006]

This another area of big disagreement among those for and against full inclusion. Yes xbows share similar features with compounds BUT they also share features with guns. The features that they share with guns are so advantageous that most Archers feel justify there exclusion from the archery season. And before this cycles back to what about advantages over trad bows. Every compound user here argues that they should have there own season as well. None of you that argue for inclusion have any argument besides whining "it's not fair". My opinion is to split it evenly 1st trad, then compound, then xbow.

Idk take that...but can't use compound in xbow season and vise versa

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[brownclown]

6 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

Idk take that...but can't use compound in xbow season and vise versa

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well that wasn't what i meant but glad we reaching some short of agreement. LOL. but even as you thought i purposed of no vise versa, I would be in too. I have no interest in cross bow hunting but if i had to in order to be able to hunt i would.  under those guidelines Hopefully i would be able to to get my skills to a point i felt ethically comfortable to hunt with a Trad bow too. I have be practicing for years but being rt hand , left eye dominant i cant find consistency . Thinking about switching to lefty after season to see .

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Core said:

Not really. They have virtually hit a wall. This is a fact based on physics; once they hit 100% efficiency, and they are approaching it, they tap out. Crossbows are nowhere near their wall and are already 2-3X the KE of a bow, with flat trajectories that a compound will probably never achieve.

 

Only until they come up with a dew design that allows more, which they will. Its called evolution and it happens to everything. Its happened with bows before.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Core said:

My point is if you guys think you can march around the woods from october first with a 440 or 500 or 600 FPS crossbow (when they are created) and the gun guys are going to happily sit waiting another 7 weeks for you to take down all the big bucks, you're living a fantasy. This thread simply portends another a few years down the line from gun guys asking if they should have full inclusion. And you'll be right there whining that guns aren't archery equipment so they shouldn't be able to benefit from an early season, even though you're hitting deer with 150+ foot lbs of energy at 80 yards.

Regardless of how fast the crossbows shoot through a chronograph, your effective hunting range is still limited, just like a compound bow.

 

Oh and there have been people whining about the early archery thing for years, its nothing new.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, LJC said:

If you don't have a separate season for  bow . Pretty soon almost  nobody will

Use a bow .

That's why you want a separate season for xbows 

It's so simple . 

archery equipment - kills using a cutting blade at the tip of an arrow fired from a string using energy stored in limbs

gun - kills with a bullet that transfers large amounts of energy to its target

 

recurve bow = archery equipment

compound bow = archery equipment

crossbow = archery equipment

rifle = gun

shotgun = gun

pistol = gun

muzzleloader = gun

Yes, it is very simple.

 

[LJC]

2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Added opportunity, and a crossbow is just another form of archery equipment, so why not include it? Just like during gun season you can choose to hunt with (in most areas) a semi auto rifle, a bolt rifle, a single shot rifle, a shotgun, a muzzle loader or even a pistol. Its up to you what kind of a challenge you want to present yourself. 

If you don't have a separate season for  bow . Pretty soon almost  nobody will

Use a bow .

That's why you want a separate season for xbows 

It's so simple . 

[WNYBuckHunter]

6 minutes ago, LJC said:

If you don't have a separate season for  bow . Pretty soon almost  nobody will

Use a bow .

That's why you want a separate season for xbows 

It's so simple . 

So then we should have a separate season for every individual type of gun too. And we should have a separate recurve season for bows. Maybe we should just go to 1 week for each type of weapon. You can only use that exact type of weapon during that week.

 

BTW, how many times are you going to respond to the same quote?

[LJC]

15 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

recurve bow = archery equipment

compound bow = archery equipment

crossbow = archery equipment

rifle = gun

shotgun = gun

pistol = gun

muzzleloader = gun

Yes, it is very simple.

 

Xbow different skill set then a bow it's not archery .

 

All guns on the other hand you shoot the same way . AIM AND SHOOT . The muzzleloaders you load different and they have there own season as well right .

WITH A BOW YOU HAVE to LERN  THE PROPER FORM  TO SHOT ONE AND IT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THEN SHOOTING A XBOW .

DEC KNOWS IT THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T LET IT IN ALL OF ARCHERY IN THE FIRST PLACE .

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by LJC