What happened to the Xbow inclusion thread?

[moog5050]

The odd part is that to my knowledge none of the strongest advocates for inclusion on this thread hunt with a crossbow.  lol  They just want people that may not have the time, skill or ability to shoot a bow well, to still be in a stand.  Why would we not want others to enjoy what we enjoy so much?

And with that, I am running to the store now to buy the hardest hitting semi automatic crossbow I can find.

[stoneam2006]

The odd part is that to my knowledge none of the strongest advocates for inclusion on this thread hunt with a crossbow.  lol  They just want people that may not have the time, skill or ability to shoot a bow well, to still be in a stand.  Why would we not want others to enjoy what we enjoy so much?

And with that, I am running to the store now to buy the hardest hitting semi automatic crossbow I can find.

Like....hit my quota early today

Make sure you get the magic one too....semi auto magic long distance sniper xbow

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[chas0218]

5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Can you post some links to back that statement up?

I have quite a few reasons. Ive stated them all before, but Ill recap the biggest ones for ya.

Im all about freedom of choice, and less shoving things down peoples throats. I realize that crossbows are just another form of archery equipment. They kill the same way, using the same power, at similar distances and they require the same level of woodsmanship skills to be a consistently effective tool. I see absolutely no reason to keep them separate.

I know of quite a few people that cant draw legal weight for one reason or the other, but dont qualify for any aid or anything like that. They should be able to hunt. I also realize that one of these days I myself will get to a point where I cant draw a bow anymore, and I would still like to be able to hunt through my favorite deer season.

I also know lots of guys that bow hunt that dont have the time to put the proper amount of practice in, but they go out there anyhow and make awful shots on deer year in and year out. They gut shoot them, lose them, leave them to lay and rot. I know that nothing in nature truly goes to waste, but those bad shots have a tendency of reflecting badly upon our sport. I would rather see those guys be allowed to use something that they can put deer on the ground with in an ethical manor. You can say those guys should practice more, and thump your chest until its black and blue, but its not going to stop it from happening.

I would love to give you the link I have actually posted the chart before but unfortunately the link is now dead on the PA game commission site. It was in part of their pilot study presentation as the conclusion when crossbows were first introduced full inclusion into their archery season. The information available now does not distinguish harvest by implement.

Lets talk NYS instead. The numbers from 2014 crossbow harvest were 5,535 deer in 2015 it jumped up to 7,469 that is a 34.9% increase in crossbow harvests. This year will only confirm what most are saying that it will increase that much or more. Now with that the bow season remained close to the same harvest numbers (only 6.5% increase) meaning that people didn't leave their vertical bow to pickup a crossbow it lead to more people in the field resulting in more deer harvested. Regular season yielded a 13% decrease in harvests. So that being said it is safe to assume that the ~ 9000 deer difference has the majority to do with the gun hunters buying a crossbow to hunt with (there is a 2000 deer difference remaining which could have been new hunters). I know many of you will argue that's an assumption and start beating your chests and try to tear apart the numbers but these were all taken from the 2014 and 2015 harvest report. It is simple math so most of you should be able to fact check my numbers, the computer or phone you're using has a calculator.

[LJC]

1 hour ago, Jmp209 said:

 

 

There are slight differences in the structure of seasons and tags between the two states though. They're not worried about antlerless numbers being impacted at all in PA but ALL antlerless licenses in PA are area specific unlike NY's bow/muzzle tags. So they are more in control of where the antlerless deer are being taken during the archery season. The article states a possible concern for too many bucks being taken pre rut and not getting a chance to breed which could also potentially reduce deer numbers. The numbers show there is no major concern with that in PA but they also have an antler restriction that NY does not. Maybe these variables mean nothing but they also may make a huge difference between how x bows would affect populations between the two different states.

Sent from my XT1060 using 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by LJC

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

I would love to give you the link I have actually posted the chart before but unfortunately the link is now dead on the PA game commission site. It was in part of their pilot study presentation as the conclusion when crossbows were first introduced full inclusion into their archery season. The information available now does not distinguish harvest by implement.

Lets talk NYS instead. The numbers from 2014 crossbow harvest were 5,535 deer in 2015 it jumped up to 7,469 that is a 34.9% increase in crossbow harvests. This year will only confirm what most are saying that it will increase that much or more. Now with that the bow season remained close to the same harvest numbers (only 6.5% increase) meaning that people didn't leave their vertical bow to pickup a crossbow it lead to more people in the field resulting in more deer harvested. Regular season yielded a 13% decrease in harvests. So that being said it is safe to assume that the ~ 9000 deer difference has the majority to do with the gun hunters buying a crossbow to hunt with (there is a 2000 deer difference remaining which could have been new hunters). I know many of you will argue that's an assumption and start beating your chests and try to tear apart the numbers but these were all taken from the 2014 and 2015 harvest report. It is simple math so most of you should be able to fact check my numbers, the computer or phone you're using has a calculator.

I dont understand why you cant just look at stats other than PA, which I honestly dont buy into, and some that you are making up and assuming for what might happen in NY? The stats are out there, phade came up with Ohios fairly quickly. Your numbers are very skewed. Of course you are going to have large jumps in crossbow take when its first implemented. They will plateu after a few years and stay about the same after that.

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 minutes ago, LJC said:

 

You here? You should try and use this thing thats available to everyone on the internet, its called Google, and it helps you find the information for yourself.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Here, it took me 10 seconds to find it...

Lawful Arms & Ammunition

Deer and Bear, Regular Seasons

• Manually operated (pump, lever, bolt actions, single-shot)

centerfire rifles, shotguns (shotguns do not have to be plugged

when hunting deer, bears or elk) and handguns (revolvers or

single-shots) with all-lead bullet or ball, or bullet designed to

expand on impact;

• Muzzleloading long guns of any type, 44 caliber or larger, or

a muzzleloading handgun 50 caliber or larger, and;

• Long, recurve, compound bows (minimum draw weight of

35 pounds) or crossbows (minimum 125-pound draw weight),

with a broadhead that has an outside diameter or width of at

least 7/8 of an inch with at least two cutting edges located on

the same plane throughout the length of the cutting surface,

and may not exceed 3.25 inches in length. The use of buckshot

is not legal, except in the Southeast Special Regulations Area.

 

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/Law/Documents/2016-17 Hunting Trapping Digest/BigGameRegulations.pdf

[WNYBuckHunter]

What you "here"d was wrong btw.

[LJC]

9 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I dont understand why you cant just look at stats other than PA, which I honestly dont buy into, and some that you are making up and assuming for what might happen in NY? The stats are out there, phade came up with Ohios fairly quickly. Your numbers are very skewed. Of course you are going to have large jumps in crossbow take when its first implemented. They will plateu after a few years and stay about the same after that.

Pa  borders ny so its more relevant to what will happen here 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

26 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

I would love to give you the link I have actually posted the chart before but unfortunately the link is now dead on the PA game commission site. It was in part of their pilot study presentation as the conclusion when crossbows were first introduced full inclusion into their archery season. The information available now does not distinguish harvest by implement.

Lets talk NYS instead. The numbers from 2014 crossbow harvest were 5,535 deer in 2015 it jumped up to 7,469 that is a 34.9% increase in crossbow harvests. This year will only confirm what most are saying that it will increase that much or more. Now with that the bow season remained close to the same harvest numbers (only 6.5% increase) meaning that people didn't leave their vertical bow to pickup a crossbow it lead to more people in the field resulting in more deer harvested. Regular season yielded a 13% decrease in harvests. So that being said it is safe to assume that the ~ 9000 deer difference has the majority to do with the gun hunters buying a crossbow to hunt with (there is a 2000 deer difference remaining which could have been new hunters). I know many of you will argue that's an assumption and start beating your chests and try to tear apart the numbers but these were all taken from the 2014 and 2015 harvest report. It is simple math so most of you should be able to fact check my numbers, the computer or phone you're using has a calculator.

were the 2014 and 2015 crossbow regulations the same each year? how are you factoring in the large areas of the state that were impacted by the  antlerless  only for the first tow weeks last year? And ML went down by 4,000 from 2014 to 2015 so do you know that it wasn't the ML's hunters that took up the crossbow?

Edited November 1, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[LJC]

14 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

What you "here"d was wrong btw.

That's why I did not say it was fact  i think he ment to say semi auto  I was talking to someone from there just the other day . 

But I think we all agree xbows are more easy to use easy to shoot . Faster to take a shot once cocked and can be made to shoot faster then a compound bow . All of that = more dead deer . That alone will change things . For all the seasons that go after archery. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by LJC

[WNYBuckHunter]

11 minutes ago, LJC said:

Pa  borders ny so its more relevant to what will happen here 

PA has had crossbows in play for a short amount of time, and they dont give you the real numbers to compare. Ohio does, and that state is very comparable to NY in terms of habitat, etc. PA is no more relevant than many other states.

[stoneam2006]

Pa  borders ny so its more relevant to what will happen here 

How'd that work out with gun laws... taxes...car inspections or just about anything else....come on that doesn't make sence

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[stoneam2006]

That's why I did not say it was fact  i think he ment to say semi auto  I was talking to someone from there just the other day . 
But I think we all agree xbows are more easy to use easy to shoot . Faster to take a shot once cocked and can be made to shoot faster then a compound bow . All of that = more dead deer . That alone will change things . For all the seasons that go after archery. 

No second shot
Very loud

We can go back and forth with perks/downfalls all day

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[WNYBuckHunter]

Here are some facts for you. As of a couple of years ago, PA was at a 48% harvest rate for Crossbows in archery season. Pretty far off of the 80% number being thrown around.

 

http://www.outdoornews.com/2013/10/10/some-fret-about-high-crossbow-harvest/

[moog5050]

6 minutes ago, LJC said:

That's why I did not say it was fact  i think he ment to say semi auto  I was talking to someone from there just the other day . 

But I think we all agree xbows are more easy to use easy to shoot and can be made to shoot faster then a compound bow . All of that = more dead deer . That alone will change things . For all the seasons that go after archery. 

But the good news is that according to you, all of the hunters that hunt gun only will now be hunting archery season.  They can take those same deer that would have been leftover earlier.  Very circular argument.  In fact, under your assumption, all gun hunters should be in favor of crossbow to beat the archers to the punch.  get it?

[LJC]

8 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

PA has had crossbows in play for a short amount of time, and they dont give you the real numbers to compare. Ohio does, and that state is very comparable to NY in terms of habitat, etc. PA is no more relevant than many other states.

Lol are you a lobbyist for TenPoint Crossbows lol 

Seriously you can't be this naive 

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, LJC said:

Lol are you a lobbyist for TenPoint Crossbows lol 

Seriously you can't be this naive 

Nope, Im just not the kind of guy that ASSumes things. I highly doubt the Ohio DNR is in cahoots with TenPoint to try and open up Crossbow seasons in other states. Yet another farce thats straight out of the NYB anti-crossbow cookbook.

[LJC]

8 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

No second shot
Very loud

We can go back and forth with perks/downfalls all day

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

 

Sound Overtime that will change 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 minutes ago, LJC said:

That's why I did not say it was fact  i think he ment to say semi auto  I was talking to someone from there just the other day . 

But I think we all agree xbows are more easy to use easy to shoot . Faster to take a shot once cocked and can be made to shoot faster then a compound bow . All of that = more dead deer . That alone will change things . For all the seasons that go after archery. 

with the low percentage of hunters that actually take a deer with a gun and yo are worried about mass killing with a crossbow in their hands?  Oh come on. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

22 minutes ago, LJC said:

That's why I did not say it was fact  i think he ment to say semi auto  I was talking to someone from there just the other day . 

But I think we all agree xbows are more easy to use easy to shoot . Faster to take a shot once cocked and can be made to shoot faster then a compound bow . All of that = more dead deer . That alone will change things . For all the seasons that go after archery. 

Back peddle!

 

Faster to take a shot once cocked? Last I knew, its the same amount of time to pull the trigger on a crossbow or compound once its been drawn.

 

More doom and gloom!

[LJC]

21 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

But the good news is that according to you, all of the hunters that hunt gun only will now be hunting archery season.  They can take those same deer that would have been leftover earlier.  Very circular argument.  In fact, under your assumption, all gun hunters should be in favor of crossbow to beat the archers to the punch.  get it?

Alot guys that I no that don't do archery .

When xbows became legal got one right away to hunt so ,  So the ones that will loose out are people that really only want to use a  bow .  Or only want to use there guns . Why not add a longer xbow season after gun  Makes more sense to me I think that is a  fair  way to give them a longer season . 

Edited November 1, 2016 by LJC

[LJC]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

The odd part is that to my knowledge none of the strongest advocates for inclusion on this thread hunt with a crossbow.  lol  They just want people that may not have the time, skill or ability to shoot a bow well, to still be in a stand.  Why would we not want others to enjoy what we enjoy so much?

And with that, I am running to the store now to buy the hardest hitting semi automatic crossbow I can find.

I wish they had a recurve only seasons just so I would have a reason to hunt with the new recurve I got . As it is now I'm not bringing a knife to a gun fight lol 

 

[LJC]

26 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Nope, Im just not the kind of guy that ASSumes things. I highly doubt the Ohio DNR is in cahoots with TenPoint to try and open up Crossbow seasons in other states. Yet another farce thats straight out of the NYB anti-crossbow cookbook.

Bahahaha ok there Hilary lol no special interest in government decisions  

You really are naive lol 

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

I would love to give you the link I have actually posted the chart before but unfortunately the link is now dead on the PA game commission site. It was in part of their pilot study presentation as the conclusion when crossbows were first introduced full inclusion into their archery season. The information available now does not distinguish harvest by implement.

Lets talk NYS instead. The numbers from 2014 crossbow harvest were 5,535 deer in 2015 it jumped up to 7,469 that is a 34.9% increase in crossbow harvests. This year will only confirm what most are saying that it will increase that much or more. Now with that the bow season remained close to the same harvest numbers (only 6.5% increase) meaning that people didn't leave their vertical bow to pickup a crossbow it lead to more people in the field resulting in more deer harvested. Regular season yielded a 13% decrease in harvests. So that being said it is safe to assume that the ~ 9000 deer difference has the majority to do with the gun hunters buying a crossbow to hunt with (there is a 2000 deer difference remaining which could have been new hunters). I know many of you will argue that's an assumption and start beating your chests and try to tear apart the numbers but these were all taken from the 2014 and 2015 harvest report. It is simple math so most of you should be able to fact check my numbers, the computer or phone you're using has a calculator.

How many of those 2000 deer were killed by bow hunters who got one with there vertical then took one with there cross. I doubt all those crossbow kills were by gun hunters who bought a cross.