Pine tree bedding design

[Zag]

So this winter ill be continuing multiple projects. One being a sanctuary/bedding area. Its currently being used for some bedding. So ill be continuing to hinge cut the 8 acre area mostly made up of ash and maple (small to mid diameter). After hinge cutting ill be adding clumps of pine trees through out the 8 acre area for bedding cover. So I'm thinking of planting clumps of pine trees maybe 5 or 6 in kind of an L shape. L shape to protect them from the w/sw winter winds while proving them sunlight during the day. The other thought was to just plant them 2 next to each other then one then 2 again. Thoughts?

[First-light]

I planted White Spruce 8 years ago from the Saratoga nursery. We kept them in rows about 5 feet apart. I like what your saying about l shape that is interesting. FYI these trees have yet to be rubbed on. I was told before I planted that the deer don't like them which is true so far. I would try the l shape, good luck.

[Jeremy K]

Is there any low areas/ditch/creek you can incorporate in to the bedding area ,like a travel route for them?

[Zag]

20 minutes ago, First-light said:

I planted White Spruce 8 years ago from the Saratoga nursery. We kept them in rows about 5 feet apart. I like what your saying about l shape that is interesting. FYI these trees have yet to be rubbed on. I was told before I planted that the deer don't like them which is true so far. I would try the l shape, good luck.

Ill be looking to grab white pine probably from the dec and norways I can get 2-4ft potted locally.

[Zag]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Is there any low areas/ditch/creek you can incorporate in to the bedding area ,like a travel route for them?

no there isn't. This location works for multiple reasons but mainly because they use it to an extent now and its located about dead center in the property.

[dbHunterNY]

this is what i've seen on family properties and elsewhere.  taller pines that are open below work get on south face slopes.  they provide thermal cover from sinking cool air but then let in sun light for warmth.  especially if it's not visible from access or high traffic locations.  pre and post rut, i've found bucks use this to hold out until last light before they get one their feet.  another thing i found... if i have a brushy or taller grass/weed littered area with pines clumped in it deer bed right at their bases.  heavy snow or rain they love it.  i think it provides a canopy from the elements and sun on hot summer days.  doe family groups bed together and like to watch each others back.  they typical bed facing different directions when not on a steep side hill.  clump a handful of trees tighter together barely 10' apart. in a cluster.  once they touch trim up all the branches underneath to leave it open to at least 6' up for them to see out and to have room to leap and run to escape.  keep the roots buried and ground bare underneath.  plant trees much farther apart, 20 yards away from the cluster, in sight, and on all sides.  orphans, weaning button bucks, and bucks during the rut will use some of them depending on the wind and whatever else.  shorter full evergreens also can create that visual barrier so bucks can't see into your plot and move them to one side or as they travel perpendicular across it, like i told you before.  plant on only north and west sides so you don't end up shading your plot. if you've got an ideal stand location that gets to thin with back cover while you're doing your work plant one evergreen tree  they grow quick and you can put a hangon and sectioned sticks within it.  just trim away branches enough for shooting and visibility at eye level only at whatever height you get the stand at.  now you've got plenty of back cover.  don't hunt it right away though after trimming unless you like getting covered in pine pitch.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

this is what i've seen on family properties and elsewhere.  taller pines that are open below work get on south face slopes.  they provide thermal cover from sinking cool air but then let in sun light for warmth.  especially if it's not visible from access or high traffic locations.  pre and post rut, i've found bucks use this to hold out until last light before they get one their feet.  another thing i found... if i have a brushy or taller grass/weed littered area with pines clumped in it deer bed right at their bases.  heavy snow or rain they love it.  i think it provides a canopy from the elements and sun on hot summer days.  doe family groups bed together and like to watch each others back.  they typical bed facing different directions when not on a steep side hill.  clump a handful of trees tighter together barely 10' apart. in a cluster.  once they touch trim up all the branches underneath to leave it open to at least 6' up for them to see out and to have room to leap and run to escape.  keep the roots buried and ground bare underneath.  plant trees much farther apart, 20 yards away from the cluster, in sight, and on all sides.  orphans, weaning button bucks, and bucks during the rut will use some of them depending on the wind and whatever else.  shorter full evergreens also can create that visual barrier so bucks can't see into your plot and move them to one side or as they travel perpendicular across it, like i told you before.  plant on only north and west sides so you don't end up shading your plot. if you've got an ideal stand location that gets to thin with back cover while you're doing your work plant one evergreen tree  they grow quick and you can put a hangon and sectioned sticks within it.  just trim away branches enough for shooting and visibility at eye level only at whatever height you get the stand at.  now you've got plenty of back cover.  don't hunt it right away though after trimming unless you like getting covered in pine pitch.

what do you think about adding strips of switch grass around the area to screen? not completely covering but to line perimeters and interior breaks?

[dbHunterNY]

depends on when you're planting it and soil type to push height.  i think it has a lot of uses.  fawning and buck cover.  transition cover.  bucks seem to love it for bedding on top of a knoll.  don't use it for screening nearly as much but it works well that way too.  it's a bit cheaper than other stuff used for screening cover... like standing corn that i know some people use.  love it compared trying to utilize rose bushes.  kind of stick of those things.  i feel like zag's going to have a lot of debris pushed with the dozer that he's got to do something with anyway that can work as screening.  as it breaks down though switch grass could be a good replacement.

[Zag]

3 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

this is what i've seen on family properties and elsewhere.  taller pines that are open below work get on south face slopes.  they provide thermal cover from sinking cool air but then let in sun light for warmth.  especially if it's not visible from access or high traffic locations.  pre and post rut, i've found bucks use this to hold out until last light before they get one their feet.  another thing i found... if i have a brushy or taller grass/weed littered area with pines clumped in it deer bed right at their bases.  heavy snow or rain they love it.  i think it provides a canopy from the elements and sun on hot summer days.  doe family groups bed together and like to watch each others back.  they typical bed facing different directions when not on a steep side hill.  clump a handful of trees tighter together barely 10' apart. in a cluster.  once they touch trim up all the branches underneath to leave it open to at least 6' up for them to see out and to have room to leap and run to escape.  keep the roots buried and ground bare underneath.  plant trees much farther apart, 20 yards away from the cluster, in sight, and on all sides.  orphans, weaning button bucks, and bucks during the rut will use some of them depending on the wind and whatever else.  shorter full evergreens also can create that visual barrier so bucks can't see into your plot and move them to one side or as they travel perpendicular across it, like i told you before.  plant on only north and west sides so you don't end up shading your plot. if you've got an ideal stand location that gets to thin with back cover while you're doing your work plant one evergreen tree  they grow quick and you can put a hangon and sectioned sticks within it.  just trim away branches enough for shooting and visibility at eye level only at whatever height you get the stand at.  now you've got plenty of back cover.  don't hunt it right away though after trimming unless you like getting covered in pine pitch.

Thanks for the insight DBH, I was hoping you would chime in. I'm thinking that having a stand on the edge of this could help catch bucks cruising thru each pine stand as he searches for does. I think once the seasons over ill get in their and map out where I want to clump them and how many trees ill need. Then finish hinge cutting the area and have it ready for a spring planting.  

Anyone ever plant goldenrod? That or some native grass frost seeded. That's what id want around the pines.

Edited December 2, 2016 by zag

[dbHunterNY]

Never have heard of anyone planting golden rod. I'd much rather go with a taller forge grass or like culver brought up switch grass. Depends on when you want deer to have the cover and when you need the food for them whether it's warm season native grass or more like cereal grains. need height but most you should get to a few feet or more. its good to have something that doubles as food and cover. Sometimes makes it harder to hunt though because deer have more of what they need right there.

[growalot]

I have planted double lines of white Spruce alterneted with white pine...all I have are groups of white spruce ..Deer love to eat white pine. I also have Volunteer Norway.the buck love these..but ones that grow..grow fast and HUGE. Remember  to always calculate mature height before planting...Re d pine plantations are flavored over the Norway's here by deer ,but both used heavily by them and Turkey.

[Jeremy K]

Here's what our pines look like ,very noisy to walk through,I think the deer like that they can hear anyone coming.

[Zag]

14 hours ago, growalot said:

I have planted double lines of white Spruce alterneted with white pine...all I have are groups of white spruce ..Deer love to eat white pine. I also have Volunteer Norway.the buck love these..but ones that grow..grow fast and HUGE. Remember  to always calculate mature height before planting...Re d pine plantations are flavored over the Norway's here by deer ,but both used heavily by them and Turkey.

Why do u think the like the red over Norway's grow?

[Zag]

21 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

Never have heard of anyone planting golden rod. I'd much rather go with a taller forge grass or like culver brought up switch grass. Depends on when you want deer to have the cover and when you need the food for them whether it's warm season native grass or more like cereal grains. need height but most you should get to a few feet or more. its good to have something that doubles as food and cover. Sometimes makes it harder to hunt though because deer have more of what they need right there.

I've looked a lot at the native grasses, they're kinda pricey. The only way I could so it would  be to frost seed, or take more time and roundup and spread but I don't have an option to scratch the surface or cover after planting. Do u think frost seeding will work or just get beat out by existing vegetation?

[growalot]

It could be just location..reds line farm fields..but also the reds have  less height to them. There are a bit more openings amongst them and more Sun reaches the ground. Golden rod patches grow in and around them. The Norway's are darker and moiture soils are in them. Less Sun due to height.

I happen to know this because I got a tour of the Norway's by the neighbor that owned them and I have retrieval permission from the owner of the one red plantation. I went in to get a 8 pt. That I shot in bow. The deer had spots in the reds they could Sun themselves and both red plantations face south..the Norway's are north west on a slope.

[Zag]

Make sense, now you have me thinking white and red pines. thanks for your thoughts, I was hoping you would add to this thread!

Edited December 9, 2016 by zag

[dbHunterNY]

I've looked a lot at the native grasses, they're kinda pricey. The only way I could so it would  be to frost seed, or take more time and roundup and spread but I don't have an option to scratch the surface or cover after planting. Do u think frost seeding will work or just get beat out by existing vegetation?

Honestly it'd help to mow it and spray it a couple times to let it break down before the growing season ends then frost seed. Depends on what's there. I've got these weeds in one creek bottom plot i made that grow 6' tall only thing that will keep it at bay is perennial clover. Rest is native swamp grass around it that grew on its own that I haven't touched except for each year mowing or weed eating narrower paths thru it where I want to encourage them to go.

[growalot]

If you don't use water authority or DEC ..Musser Nursery in PA is a great source...they have a catalog and on line.

[Zag]

20 minutes ago, growalot said:

If you don't use water authority or DEC ..Musser Nursery in PA is a great source...they have a catalog and on line.

Thanks, I like that they have taller ones than the dec. I have found norways and whites 2-3ft for $12 dollars locally. I'm ok paying more if it gets me taller trees faster. I found another one cold stream farm has some deent prices too.

Edited December 9, 2016 by zag