petersons honorable mention of qdm

[steve863]

I wish I could read this entire article also.  I do agree with what was mentioned in the synopsis of it, however.  From it's start QDM has simply used smoke and mirrors to try to convince everyone that they are most of all interested in a "healthy herd".  Nice try, but I would bet that there isn't ONE person out there claiming to be practicing QDM who also isn't a hunter whose greatest driving force behind hunting is killing trophy sized bucks.  They can try to say whatever they want, but it is pretty obvious to anyone but a blind man that trophy bucks are the MAJOR motive behind all of this.  I have no doubt that some here will argue to the contrary until they are blue in the face.  They can go ahead if they wish, but there are plenty of hunters out there who will never buy it.  As the synopsis mentioned these QDM people have some serious PR work ahead of them to make it perfectly clear to everyone that "trophy bucks" are not the driving force behind all of this.  So far I have never heard them ever admit any such thing.  As they say, silence can speak louder than words.  LOL

[nyantler]

If you're feeding your family by hunting and you pay $300 a year to hunt.. you might want to do the math... it would be cheaper to by meat at the grocery store...

I'm not so sure about that, I guess if you included the price of gear and really were to total it up maybe, but keep in mind the average American consumes about 200 pounds of meat each year. Multiply that by an average family size of four and you are up to 800 pounds of meat, now lets take say 200 pounds off and dedicate that to venison. Ok so we are going to guess the average cost of that venison is $300 as you sugested, that works out to $1.50 a pound providing you cut it and package it all yourself as I do. Now lets guess the average price per pound of beef, ground goes for @$$3-4 a pound and choice cuts of steak can be $18-20 a pound..suddenly venison sounds cheaper then beef does it not?

At my house we do not eat beef untill the venison is gone, and we rarely eat beef the rest of the year, so by my logic hunting for venison is still cheaper than shopping for beef.

That would be true if you could be gauranteed 200 lbs of venison each year.. but Rocket said he spent $300 and only got one deer... just didn't seem like an economical way to feed your family to me... a job works much better

[nyantler]

How dare ye speak against antler beliefs..you  kno hes been studyin this stuff his whole life..its  gotta be true..just like at one time it was studied and understood the earth to be flat

I never said you had to believe me.. just do some homework...find me some data that says that an actual "qdm" program hasn't worked... and remember AR is NOT qdm.

And for the record... the idea of the world being flat wasn't from study.. it was an assumption... once the actual studing of the earth came about is when they realized it ws round.

[Pat Rockets]

Actually, i used the old dairy barn to store hay for a fellow who has beefers..he paid me this yr with a side of beef..a cow i would occasionally let hammer down a labatt blue..and do yer research..i said avg spent 300..i actually spent 150 for new carbons and a camera tripod..and for your info im on month #10 of my new job after a 1.5 layoff..went from makin 17 an hr to 12.50..but instead of 70 mi a day..its now 4..

Any free meat..is meat in the freezer..it wont change For mr any time soon..6, 2.5, 8weeks..all boys..all carnivores..

Also i might add..im younger than some..and i remember a time when seein A deer was a big deal..now its like..ehh more deer..deer are a nuscense..thats why THEY sell those permits..and what do you suppose happens to those deer?

[nyantler]

I was only making an observation from the statement that you said about spending $300 and only getting one deer... you don;t have to defend yourself.. if you want to hunt for meat there is nothing wrong with that, just didn't seem too economical to me is all... if you really need food that bad just let me know and I'll kill a doe and give it to you next year.

[erussell]

My only complaint with QDM is that most of the land owners whom I have had run in's with who practice "QDM" seem to think they own all the deer within a mile of thier property. I hunt on land adjacent to a land owner who everytime I shoot a deer he's all of the sudden right there to see it and let me know how old the deer is and how nice a deer he would have been next yr. And its not like im shooting a spike or a four or a basket 8 they are decent deer in anyones book. He missed a monster 8 twice and it ran right to me but it was  about 50 yrds in some thick brush. I had a small opening and took a shot which missed and the deer ran off. Well i heard him spin out of his drive way and speed down the road to the land I was on  and he drove up and down the road till I came out of the woods. You should have seen the look of relief on his face when I told him I missed it to. He probably just about crapped his pants when he saw the deer run off in my direction and heard me shoot.    It just annoys the crap out of me, and I'm all for QDM and AR and anything else that will let bucks get older and bigger. Sometimes I have all season to hunt as much as I like so I hold out for a monster buck and shoot a few does and have eaten a lot of tag sandwhiches this way and have let alot of young bucks go.But sometime I don't have the time during the season to hunt as much as I would like to so the first decent buck that comes along get's it.

[steve863]

My only complaint with QDM is that most of the land owners whom I have had run in's with who practice "QDM" seem to think they own all the deer within a mile of thier property.

Well, don't forget where QDM started.  Texas, and the majority of Texans who practice QDM also fence their land.  It is pretty obvious that many feel they own the deer that they think are benefitting from THEIR QDM practices.  These ideas go hand in hand with each other.

[Pat Rockets]

I still believe if we are going to make any effort to try to control the heard and its population..feeders are more of a benifit than ar or qdm..if giant whitetail 2yr olds start struttin around..i dont think it would be young inexperienced hunters killing them all..also it may greatly reduce the taking of yearlings..as much as i cant believe it..an education class on aging and classing deer would be necessary to keep everyone on the same page as far as any restriction goes..somethin the state cant afford..feeders could hypothetically make the state $(15.5 mil)..can you say that about any restriction program

[arrowflinger]

I still believe if we are going to make any effort to try to control the heard and its population..feeders are more of a benifit than ar or qdm

Stop already.

Baiting is cheating.

[Pat Rockets]

I hear ya..but with plotting..attractants and lures...we are already on the edge of baiting..when times get tough(economicly) we gotta swallow our pride on what we belive..if the state cant afford to care for its parks..and shuts them down..where ya gonna hunt? The state would appreciate us as a whole if we threw more $ to them..any restriction takes a few yrs for good results..a great diet would help the next seasons deer..asap

[Doewhacker]

That would be true if you could be gauranteed 200 lbs of venison each year.. but Rocket said he spent $300 and only got one deer... just didn't seem like an economical way to feed your family to me... a job works much better

Oh I missed that part.. ;D

One more reason I shot as many doe as I can, its like a broken record in my head..."Fill the frezer", and the voice is my wife..lol

[Pat Rockets]

Yeah..i assume he just throws the rest of his deer out..and i like the suggestion that i was jobless..or thats what i read into it..

[G-Man]

I don't think is just people who practice qdm thinking that all the deer belong to them, almost all landowners do most "posted signs" are there to protect their game. I i truly believe most hunters believe they are entitled to a buck if not a buck and a doe.. The days of putting in time and actually HUNTING are gone. The cost of tags is high and that leads to people feeing i paid for it so i'm entitled to a deer. Along with society in general feeling they are entitled to everything instead of earning it. This is a driving force behind a lot of trophy management the right to get a big buck. If they were common would they be special?? I'd rather get a once in a lifetime deer than get a booner every year...  because a big buck is special thats why they are mounted, if i got one every year the racks would end up in the trash or in a basket in the garage..

[erussell]

I still believe if we are going to make any effort to try to control the heard and its population..feeders are more of a benifit than ar or qdm..if giant whitetail 2yr olds start struttin around..i dont think it would be young inexperienced hunters killing them all..also it may greatly reduce the taking of yearlings..as much as i cant believe it..an education class on aging and classing deer would be necessary to keep everyone on the same page as far as any restriction goes..somethin the state cant afford..feeders could hypothetically make the state $(15.5 mil)..can you say that about any restriction program

I have hunted over bait in Louisiana back about 20 yrs ago when I was in the Army and trust me its not all that its cracked up to be. Everyone has these visions of P+Y bucks just walking up to you begging to be shot which can't be further from the truth. I remember only seeing a few doe and small bucks in one area and nothing in the other areas I hunted that week. The big bucks were there at night and regularly seen when shining. I'm sure there are a few guys who get lucky but it's not the Norm. The guys who constantly killed the big ones did there home work and scouted the big buck hide outs and waited for them. They didn't feed the deer during the summer because they wouldn't eat it when they had natural brows and nice plots to eat. Now would it help the deer in NY? To a point I guess. All the research I have read on the subject say's it  helps the deer that don't need it whom will keep the deer who need it from eating what they need to replace the calories they burned getting to the feed.  Not to mention it concentrates alot of deer in one spot when they are at there most vulnerable  condition for disease. And not only CWD but a plethora or other nasty stuff that deer seem to be susceptible to. Plus its bad for the habitat to have that many mouths to feed in one spot also.  So yeah you might help a few deer make it through the winter but there is a possibility you could  do alot of harm.Keep your deer herds at carrying capacity and your predators in check and you should have plenty of deer make it through the winter.

 

[erussell]

I don't think is just people who practice qdm thinking that all the deer belong to them, almost all landowners do most "posted signs" are there to protect their game. I i truly believe most hunters believe they are entitled to a buck if not a buck and a doe.. The days of putting in time and actually HUNTING are gone. The cost of tags is high and that leads to people feeing i paid for it so i'm entitled to a deer. Along with society in general feeling they are entitled to everything instead of earning it. This is a driving force behind a lot of trophy management the right to get a big buck. If they were common would they be special?? I'd rather get a once in a lifetime deer than get a booner every year...  because a big buck is special thats why they are mounted, if i got one every year the racks would end up in the trash or in a basket in the garage..

Hear you there. But I can't blame people who own land and post it up. They pay the taxes and they are entitled to do with it as they wish without anyone interfering. I know if I had a lot of land posted up I would want to know who is there and where they are at if I allowed them to hunt. Unfortunately now a days  people will take advantage of you at the drop of a dollar. I had a friend who had some nice walnut trees on his land and came back from vacation to find them all cut down. The moron was someone who he had let hunt there and had let him know he was going on vacation and to keep an eye on the land while he was gone. Everyone saw him come to the land and cut the trees down and take them. The guy was jailed and my friend never got any compensation for the trees. So I would say posting your land is a must just to protect your investment.  Unfortunately for them they can't stockpile big bucks. Big bucks are walkers and usually get shot on neighboring land sometimes a mile or more away. Thats why I like to find land that people post up and don't let anyone hunt. Just keep going down the row of peoples lands and ask till you get permission to hunt. Its especially lucrative if you have a large track of lands with no outside hunters allowed. I have killed one of my largest bodied deer 200 lbs 8 point on a 40 acre plot next to a 500 acre plot. The owner of the 500 acres was none to pleased with me and if he saw my truck there he would make all sorts of noise driving around his property on that side to scare the deer back further onto his land. What a Dork!! 

[steve863]

Wow, you guys are really putting up a good many examples here why trophy hunting isn't exactly a good thing.  Not to say that I didn't know it already.  So then exactly how does it help matters when we are told to let the little ones walk??  Aren't we then just helping these shananigans to continue to NO end?  Luckily we still have people who just like to hunt and horns are not the only thing that drives them to hunt.  Once everyone is onboard with the trophy mentality, then we will be doomed for sure!

 

[G-Man]

Yep lots of people like that out there, sad really. At least you realize the value of asking, i have gotten permission from knocking on doors on land that was posted. the worse they can do is say no... Unfortunately most people doing qdm in ny who may of started trying to help the whole herd do not realize how far a mature buck will travel. they lose interest as they aren't seeing the quick improvement they see on tv. Most properties here in ny are to small to be managed effectivly. I remember seeing an article on managing small property it refered to a small property as 320 acres!! Most camps around me are 40 acres or less. This all creates ill feelings and as they might only see a sm buck they will shoot it.. So now ar's are being pushed as the cure all for everyone with small properties. Only problem with that is if i own the property and pay the taxes and buy my licence i want to shoot a deer! So now qdm gets the bad rap as the root cause of ar's. I am all for a ballanced age structure but i do not see the general population looking at that, they want the "tv land" experiance big bucks walking by all the time.. Ever get a chance ask on of the hunting tv celebs how long the hunted for to make a 30 min show?? Fact is you don't need a mature buck to breed, 1 1/2 year olds will do as will some button bucks.

[G-Man]

Steve,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The value of letting the little ones walk is this: You get to experiance nature and hopefully learn something from every encounter. Learning habits, food preferences, and a general knowledge of your game will make you a better hunter! Maybe then you will then want to hunt a more mature animal and maybe eat tag soup, but you will learn and evolve as person understanding nature, not just using it or conforming it to your will. And best of all you get to hunt another day!!!

[steve863]

Fact is you don't need a mature buck to breed, 1 1/2 year olds will do as will some button bucks.

Exactly!  And the other fact that QDM people will never tell you about is that having bucks reach the age 3 1/2, 4 1/2 or older will be benefitting their trophy collections way MORE than it will ever benefit the deer herd.

[G-Man]

The benifit of a 3 1/2 or older buck in the herd is this, it will create a more intense rut, larger rubs, scrapes,ect. I truly believe there is a trophy buck in every one's hunting area. the question is are you willing to pass all the others in hope it walks by and give you a shot? Most hunters i know do not, which is their choice. I have shot enough sm. bucks and will shoot does to get my meat, the chioce is mine to wait for a large buck and i do not force it upon others, all i ask is don't get upset, call me names,ect when i do take a big buck. I worked for it!

[steve863]

G-man, I guess the thing many hunters seem to forget is that one can experience and enjoy nature year round.  One doesn't even need to hunt to enjoy and learn from nature actually.  When I go hunting, I want to kill something for my freezer.  It surely isn't guaranteed that I will, but that is why I am taking a weapon with me when I do go hunting.  If I want to just LOOK at deer I wouldn't need to take a weapon and don't even need to wait for hunting season to do it, I can do that any time.  So in general I don't agree that letting them walk during hunting season will evolve anyone into any sort of superior hunter over any other hunter.  I don't think these people are learning anything more by letting them walk during a hunting season, over someone who is a student of ALL nature at all other times.  The only thing they are doing is keeping a tag available for a trophy, which is the main reason they even venture out into nature.

[steve863]

I have shot enough sm. bucks and will shoot does to get my meat, the chioce is mine to wait for a large buck and i do not force it upon others, all i ask is don't get upset, call me names,ect when i do take a big buck. I worked for it!

I surely think you have the right to shoot whatever you want to and never get upset at people shooting bigger deer than I do.  As far as calling anyone names, I don't think I will need to.  If all the examples you guys have given here are what's really happening in today's hunting fields, you will have plenty of other people out there doing the name calling thing! 

[Pat Rockets]

Gman..i find myself intently reading your posts..you are a stand up guy..i respect what yer all about..but one thing gets me a bit ...that is you said deer mounts are for respect..however you also said small bucks would end up in the garbage..i hope you really dont mean that..

[G-Man]

Actually pat i keep all my small racks and put them on placks in my trophy room (see all the little guys left of the squirrell?) and there are a lot more of them than big ones, ever deer i shoot is a consience decision on my part and all deserve my respect as the all hold good memories for me.  However I do know a lot of hunters with baskets of little racks feeding mice in barns and garages...

[Pat Rockets]

Thats one badass yote spread..thats one animal i havnt gotten..or even had a shot at..glad to see your not throwin them there racks away..conversation pieces  is all..you have to live with em..not the guy lookin for a good story