Pro Hunting Show Fail

[Padre86]

2 hours ago, phade said:

With a well executed plan and an ethical group of hunters, running deer with dogs is probably the most exciting style of gun hunting for deer I can imagine.

The sounds of walkers or another sporting dog hot on a deer's trail piercing the fall morning and the camaraderie that comes with that style of hunting is simply something many of us high-brow northerners will simply never get to experience. What an absolute shame.

 

Actually, a little known fact is that Ontario, CA of all places allows hunters to use dogs for deer and even Moose in some areas, in addition to the regular black bear and coyote.  I don't know how many there are up there, but I've heard of at least a few deer hunting camps that run dogs on deer.  I've even heard of members at a houndsmen forum using them to find and bay Moose (similar to how the Nordic hunters do).

If you spend any amount of time up there, you'd see that the country is well-suited to such methods.  Lots and lots of remote, expansive wilderness, often times with very dense vegetation and brush and few trails.  You could walk into this stuff and not even know that a deer was standing 20ft from you.  Reminds me of some of the new growth/forest areas I've been through up in the Adirondacks and Tug Hill regions.  

I know the deer hunting with dogs issue has caused some controversy in some of the southern states.  As long as the handlers/hunters are able to keep good tabs on their dogs and don't interfere with other hunters, I don't have a problem with such methods.  Heck, I'd do that kind of hunt myself, especially in some of these densely vegetated areas I've seen up north.

[Doc]

I'm not a big fan of neighbors seeing who can lure the most deer away from their neighbors and onto their property. I don't think that we need to begin the creation of "bait wars".

Also, it is not my style to condition deer to accommodate my lack of hunting skill. I hunt deer as I find them, and have no interest in treating them like pets or livestock, training them to come to the dinner-bell so I can shoot them. Deer are quite capable of finding their own food, and I am quite capable of putting in the time to figure out where they are going to eat. I mean that is just my own personal limit when it comes to hunting. I don't really care for this recent idea that deer should be trained and used as an agricultural activity that is then called "hunting". I know that is not a popular attitude, but that is just a personal attitude that grew out of my years of hunting.......not a dictate to anyone else. To me hunting involves learning the patterns and habits of deer, not creating them. It's kind of a fine point, but for me, deer hunting is not raising or conditioning deer for slaughter.

However, I am aware that others may not draw that particular line of distinction. We each make up our own rules within what is legal when it comes to what hunting is to us. So we all develop our own code of ethics, purpose and meanings and challenges as we grow up into hunting. It is just that some practices (legal or not) are things that I don't care to associate with my hunting. 

[tuckersdaddy]

The problem with bait piles is biological. The enzymes in a deer change over the coarse of a year. This is what allows them to eat everything from grains to licens. what happens when a deer thats adjusted to eating tree browes happens upon a pile of corn? The deer eats it knowing its food however it take 2 or 3 days for the deer to produce the enzimes and digest it. Now the deer goes back for more corn and only finds a gut pile so it goes to eating browes again with another 2 or 3 day wait on the enzimes.. 4 days 1 meal during hi stress times doesnt sound good to me. I habe nothing against baiting of the hunter is commited to maintaining the feeder buts lets face it how many would? Plots come and go with the growing season which is a pace the deer can adjust to.

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[CanastotaCamo]

I actually didn't foresee so many different angles of thought. The states where I have previously hunter before moving to NY allowed feeders up until 30 days before first day. As some said... sometimes you are trying to get deer to become accustomed to your woods opposed to your neighbors etc... I whole heartedly disagree that plant a 1/2 acre crop is the same as setting up a pile 15 yards from your stand. And I'm not sure why a treestand was even brought into the conversation. But we are all entitled to our opinion and everyone has provided good experiences why they think the way they do.

Maybe I should have posted my original message like this... if I were to go up to Oneida Lake and start fishing with dynamite and a record floated to the service, would someone give me a tv show as a pro fisherman?

I should have also clarified that my main concern was not the average guy trying to fill the freezer for his family. But more so the term pro and have a tv show exemplifying your skills. If it were my choice, the real pro is the guy that still-hunts the ADK's. I would love to watch that, because it is a skill that I have never been taught and would love to learn. That guy to me is a pro. But.... I guess you can't get a camera crew to follow that guy without making noise so I digress.


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[CanastotaCamo]

I actually didn't foresee so many different angles of thought. The states where I have previously hunter before moving to NY allowed feeders up until 30 days before first day. As some said... sometimes you are trying to get deer to become accustomed to your woods opposed to your neighbors etc... I whole heartedly disagree that plant a 1/2 acre crop is the same as setting up a pile 15 yards from your stand. And I'm not sure why a treestand was even brought into the conversation. But we are all entitled to our opinion and everyone has provided good experiences why they think the way they do.

Maybe I should have posted my original message like this... if I were to go up to Oneida Lake and start fishing with dynamite and a record floated to the service, would someone give me a tv show as a pro fisherman?

I should have also clarified that my main concern was not the average guy trying to fill the freezer for his family. But more so the term pro and have a tv show exemplifying your skills. If it were my choice, the real pro is the guy that still-hunts the ADK's. I would love to watch that, because it is a skill that I have never been taught and would love to learn. That guy to me is a pro. But.... I guess you can't get a camera crew to follow that guy without making noise so I digress.


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Surface not service. Stupid autocorrect


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[nyantler]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

I'm not a big fan of neighbors seeing who can lure the most deer away from their neighbors and onto their property. I don't think that we need to begin the creation of "bait wars".

Also, it is not my style to condition deer to accommodate my lack of hunting skill. I hunt deer as I find them, and have no interest in treating them like pets or livestock, training them to come to the dinner-bell so I can shoot them. Deer are quite capable of finding their own food, and I am quite capable of putting in the time to figure out where they are going to eat. I mean that is just my own personal limit when it comes to hunting. I don't really care for this recent idea that deer should be trained and used as an agricultural activity that is then called "hunting". I know that is not a popular attitude, but that is just a personal attitude that grew out of my years of hunting.......not a dictate to anyone else. To me hunting involves learning the patterns and habits of deer, not creating them. It's kind of a fine point, but for me, deer hunting is not raising or conditioning deer for slaughter.

However, I am aware that others may not draw that particular line of distinction. We each make up our own rules within what is legal when it comes to what hunting is to us. So we all develop our own code of ethics, purpose and meanings and challenges as we grow up into hunting. It is just that some practices (legal or not) are things that I don't care to associate with my hunting. 

Couldn't have said it better myself... my position exactly.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

13 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Yea, it's like the guys upstate who hunt big food plots or corn fields and then on top of that hide in a treestand. Can't get much easier than that.


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Biz...Dont forget that Pea Shooter in their hands that will kill out to 1000 yards with top of the line scopes and such.

 

[BizCT]

Biz...Dont forget that Pea Shooter in their hands that will kill out to 1000 yards with top of the line scopes and such.
 

Of course. A weatherby and a window sill as a rest and it's over.


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[BizCT]

I'm not a big fan of neighbors seeing who can lure the most deer away from their neighbors and onto their property. I don't think that we need to begin the creation of "bait wars".
Also, it is not my style to condition deer to accommodate my lack of hunting skill. I hunt deer as I find them, and have no interest in treating them like pets or livestock, training them to come to the dinner-bell so I can shoot them. Deer are quite capable of finding their own food, and I am quite capable of putting in the time to figure out where they are going to eat. I mean that is just my own personal limit when it comes to hunting. I don't really care for this recent idea that deer should be trained and used as an agricultural activity that is then called "hunting". I know that is not a popular attitude, but that is just a personal attitude that grew out of my years of hunting.......not a dictate to anyone else. To me hunting involves learning the patterns and habits of deer, not creating them. It's kind of a fine point, but for me, deer hunting is not raising or conditioning deer for slaughter.
However, I am aware that others may not draw that particular line of distinction. We each make up our own rules within what is legal when it comes to what hunting is to us. So we all develop our own code of ethics, purpose and meanings and challenges as we grow up into hunting. It is just that some practices (legal or not) are things that I don't care to associate with my hunting. 

As long as you don't hunt from a treestand. That's even worse than baiting/food plots. If you aren't on the ground killing deer, then it doesn't count anyway.


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well i guess this fits in with Ny perfect, Cant feed this deer or that deer and you cant shoot this deer or that deer. List goes on.

And many wonder why some do what they want to do, when they want to do it on their own heavy taxed piece of property in Ny. 

[CanastotaCamo]

I love that you could see the train wreck coming a mile away, and summed it up with an emoji. Sit back and watch the show lol.


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[growalot]

You hit a key multiple thread ,multiple year ..I mean MULTIPLE YEAR  "trip wire" in that OP...lol

[CanastotaCamo]

You hit a key multiple thread ,multiple year ..I mean MULTIPLE YEAR  "trip wire" in that OP...lol

Sorry lol. Just moved here in July. Look at me making friends haha.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 minutes ago, growalot said:

You hit a key multiple thread ,multiple year ..I mean MULTIPLE YEAR  "trip wire" in that OP...lol

baiting using a crossbow in a low population area with a requirement of 12 points on a side...lol

[growalot]

You'll learn... there are several "trip wire" threads that get hit here. There are also "seasonal" just plain nasty times.  The occasional stalkers,ectect...Just look at it as trying to walk through a cow paddock....no matter how many times you get through clean..eventually your going to hit a steaming pile...LOL

[The_Real_TCIII]

Maybe I should have posted my original message like this... if I were to go up to Oneida Lake and start fishing with dynamite and a record floated to the service, would someone give me a tv show as a pro fisherman?


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I would 1000% watch that show!


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[beachpeaz]

I'm amazed at the comments in here.  Or, actually, not amazed at all knowing the general philosophy of a few of you.

I've hunted in states that allow bating and STILL wouldn't consider it.  Nothing like dumping a bag of corn and then sitting in your heated shoot house with your high powered rifle and plowing unsuspecting deer.

At what point have you taken the sport out of hunting?

Why not high fence the place too so they can't get away.

At that point, you might as well just raise cows and save yourself the aggravation of having to buy a hunting license. 

SMH

[growalot]

Apparently you've never had to feed a cow...hahahaha

[Padre86]

2 hours ago, CanastotaCamo said:

Maybe I should have posted my original message like this... if I were to go up to Oneida Lake and start fishing with dynamite and a record floated to the service, would someone give me a tv show as a pro fisherman?

I should have also clarified that my main concern was not the average guy trying to fill the freezer for his family. But more so the term pro and have a tv show exemplifying your skills. If it were my choice, the real pro is the guy that still-hunts the ADK's. I would love to watch that, because it is a skill that I have never been taught and would love to learn. That guy to me is a pro. But.... I guess you can't get a camera crew to follow that guy without making noise so I digress.


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This is what I was getting at earlier.  If hunters want to bait, and it is legal to do so where they live, fine.  Not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to tell someone else they can't do it.

But the hunting show hosts and writers who go out and hunt in these canned settings, either in high-fence operations or bait-feed ranches, and then show-off their huge, monster trophy but don't show what kind of setting they were hunting in....that's no bueno IMO.  They either need to be more truthful with their audiences and show exactly where they're hunting and how the deer are being kept and/or fed, or they need to stop acting like they are hunting masters.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

12 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

This is what I was getting at earlier.  If hunters want to bait, and it is legal to do so where they live, fine.  Not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to tell someone else they can't do it.

But the hunting show hosts and writers who go out and hunt in these canned settings, either in high-fence operations or bait-feed ranches, and then show-off their huge, monster trophy but don't show what kind of setting they were hunting in....that's no bueno IMO.  They either need to be more truthful with their audiences and show exactly where they're hunting and how the deer are being kept and/or fed, or they need to stop acting like they are hunting masters.

That's the perk of living in this country. They can do whatever they want and people can choose not to watch but many do and they make a very big paycheck while doing it.   Trophy deer are big money regardless of where their at or how their shown. 

[Padre86]

17 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

That's the perk of living in this country. They can do whatever they want and people can choose not to watch but many do and they make a very big paycheck while doing it.   Trophy deer are big money regardless of where their at or how their shown. 

Like I said, as long as the methods are legal, it's not my place to say what other hunters can and can't do.  I'm not going to impose my views of hunting on someone else.

But some of those "trophy" hunts I think are a bit cheesy, for reasons I've already mentioned.  And honestly it seems to me that many people nowadays are less inclined to watch those sorts of hunting shows because they feel the same way.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Padre86

[Four Season Whitetail's]

11 minutes ago, Padre86 said:

Like I said, as long as the methods are legal, it's not my place to say what other hunters can and can't do.  I'm not going to impose my views of hunting on someone else.

But some of those "trophy" hunts I think are a bit cheesy, for reasons I've already mentioned.  And honestly it seems to me that people nowadays are less inclined to watch those sorts of hunting shows because they feel the same way.

Not so sure?  Seems like the ones that have been around are still going strong and new ones pop up. Your right,  to each their own!

[growalot]

Quote

But the hunting show hosts and writers who go out and hunt in these canned settings, either in high-fence operations or bait-feed ranches, and then show-off their huge, monster trophy but don't show what kind of setting they were hunting in....that's no bueno IMO.  They either need to be more truthful with their audiences and show exactly where they're hunting and how the deer are being kept and/or fed, or they need to stop acting like they are hunting masters.

I'm sorry but if hunters...even young hunters haven't watched enough TV and especially these "reality" TV shows to know what is and isn't staged...then that's on them...seriously do we really need to pull out the definition of entertainment? Do most, if ANY of these hunting show label themselves as documentaries? Sometimes these arguments just make me laugh...we need to get a dog chasing tail emoticon...

[Padre86]

22 minutes ago, growalot said:

I'm sorry but if hunters...even young hunters haven't watched enough TV and especially these "reality" TV shows to know what is and isn't staged...then that's on them...seriously do we really need to pull out the definition of entertainment? Do most, if ANY of these hunting show label themselves as documentaries? Sometimes these arguments just make me laugh...we need to get a dog chasing tail emoticon...

No need to be sorry grow.  I think most people do understand the staged nature of modern "reality" shows, though I honestly wouldn't lump most hunting shows into that category.  The shows that I'm referring to have hunters going to well-maintained, private pieces of land and shooting deer that are either fenced in or have been regularly feed from bait feeders since they were fawns.  These shows rarely show the fences themselves and do everything they can to make it seem that the animal was some reclusive, monster that the hunter had to track down and find in the middle of the woods (when in reality the deer was going to the same feeder it had been going to for the past few years).  The way some of these shows portray the "hunt" isn't genuine or honest IMHO.

I'm not saying they or anyone else can't do this sort of hunting, so please don't turn this into a heated debate.  I'm just saying that I don't find those kinds of shows entertaining or honest.  I'd be truly surprised if you or anyone else really did find such shows entertaining or good, as I think they are a dime-a-dozen, but as someone else said: to each their own...

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Padre86

[growalot]

Quote

I'm not saying they or anyone else can't do this sort of hunting, so please don't turn this into a heated debate

Neither did I, nothing I said suggested I was going near that debate...