I just heard it again

[Doc]

I just heard on the news another tear-jerker news story on how a family of "immigrants" were facing potential deportation. More "Fake news"! No, there are no immigrants being deported. They are illegal aliens. Lets get it right ........ They are illegal aliens. These are people who willingly and knowingly decided to violate the existing laws of the USA. They did not earn the right to be here, as lawful immigrants do, but simply chose to disregard the legitimately established laws of our country. Their very first act when they came here was to knowingly and without respect for this country, violate the country's laws providing clear insight into how they hold the sanctity of our country's legal system in complete contempt. They decided to make a mockery of all those legal immigrants who went through all the legal channels and hoops that are required for full citizenship and legal acceptance into our society. When talking about these people, lets not waste sympathy on them when they couldn't see fit to abide by the lawful requirements of citizenship here. And when these people are finally caught, deportation is indeed the proper path for them until they can see fit to abide by the laws of our land and follow lawful procedures. Until that day let's stop calling them immigrants and use the proper terminology, "Illegal aliens". Because that's exactly what they are.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Doc

[ncountry]

Very true, Doc..

What still burns my butt though is how "fake" our enforcement really is.. We talk about following our existing rules,building walls, and a whole list of ways of cracking down on illegal immigeants..

Meanwhile, I can go for a couple hours car ride and find dozen BP agents parked in conspicuous spots all over the north country. On this same car ride I probably would drive past at least 100 illegal aliens working on our local farms... Imo, we will continue to throw money into the wind until we start making the employers liable.. there wouldn't hardly  be a single IA up here if not for all the work available. Never, or not likely to happen because these same farms  are owned/run by the people who helped put our elected officials in power.. Say one thing and do something different..

As a broad generalization. Republicans are our largest "anti immigration" party, yet employ most of them..Do we really think  they/we are going address the real problem? Ha ha ha..lol  

The problem on a local level is ...The work force the farms used to employ, younger or uneducated sections of our population, are on welfare with no interest or incentive to actually work..

The Mexican or Guatemalan who walked, hitchhiked,snuck,etc.. 3000 miles to work is not the problem it's the lazy American and our system.. until we fix that they will come..

[philoshop]

3 hours ago, ncountry said:

Very true, Doc..

What still burns my butt though is how "fake" our enforcement really is.. We talk about following our existing rules,building walls, and a whole list of ways of cracking down on illegal immigeants..

Meanwhile, I can go for a couple hours car ride and find dozen BP agents parked in conspicuous spots all over the north country. On this same car ride I probably would drive past at least 100 illegal aliens working on our local farms... Imo, we will continue to throw money into the wind until we start making the employers liable.. there wouldn't hardly  be a single IA up here if not for all the work available. Never, or not likely to happen because these same farms  are owned/run by the people who helped put our elected officials in power.. Say one thing and do something different..

As a broad generalization. Republicans are our largest "anti immigration" party, yet employ most of them..Do we really think  they/we are going address the real problem? Ha ha ha..lol  

The problem on a local level is ...The work force the farms used to employ, younger or uneducated sections of our population, are on welfare with no interest or incentive to actually work..

The Mexican or Guatemalan who walked, hitchhiked,snuck,etc.. 3000 miles to work is not the problem it's the lazy American and our system.. until we fix that they will come..

Take that thought just a bit further/deeper and realize that it was government entities 4 decades ago that took away the rights of young people to work those jobs. And that they've effectively taken away the rights of parents to employ their own children on their own family farms and to pass on a work ethic. I find it hard to believe that this current state of affairs is a result of 'unintended' consequences.

[ncountry]

14 minutes ago, philoshop said:

Take that thought just a bit further/deeper and realize that it was government entities 4 decades ago that took away the rights of young people to work those jobs. And that they've effectively taken away the rights of parents to employ their own children on their own family farms and to pass on a work ethic. I find it hard to believe that this current state of affairs is a result of 'unintended' consequences.

Though this is true.. high school aged kids are out of farm jobs not so much due to regulations but because of how our farms have changed.. Local farms have went from 100s of  50-100 head dairies to dozens of 1000s of head dairies. The farms i worked on as a kid are no longer there.. they have been gobbled up by larger ones ,based too far away to ride my bike. Due to scale, its not worth the farmers time to have part time help when they can hire full time  .

[Doc]

The point I was making is that all these people are trying to make folk-heroes out of these sneaking people who crawl over the border to laugh at and defy our laws. It has gotten so ridiculous that now our own citizens are willing to openly break laws to protect these people who have no respect for our legal system. We even have open defiance and obstruction of the law by those with some misdirected acts of what they mistake for compassion. We have protests and even riots by people who are more interested in feel-good acts of anarchy than they are for the safety and welfare of our own country. Have people gone completely mad? They are not immigrants, they are illegal aliens and need to leave until they can do the process right and become respected and true immigrants and a legal part of our county's citizenry.

[ncountry]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

The point I was making is that all these people are trying to make folk-heroes out of these sneaking people who crawl over the border to laugh at and defy our laws. It has gotten so ridiculous that now our own citizens are willing to openly break laws to protect these people who have no respect for our legal system. We even have open defiance and obstruction of the law by those with some misdirected acts of what they mistake for compassion. We have protests and even riots by people who are more interested in feel-good acts of anarchy than they are for the safety and welfare of our own country. Have people gone completely mad? They are not immigrants, they are illegal aliens and need to leave until they can do the process right and become respected and true immigrants and a legal part of our county's citizenry.

100% agree. My only point is directing our resources  and anger at the illegal aliens is mostly a waste of emotions and resources. We need to address the root of the problem. 

Directing our resources and emotions in support of illegal  aliens is just plain stupidity. 

[philoshop]

19 hours ago, ncountry said:

Though this is true.. high school aged kids are out of farm jobs not so much due to regulations but because of how our farms have changed.. Local farms have went from 100s of  50-100 head dairies to dozens of 1000s of head dairies. The farms i worked on as a kid are no longer there.. they have been gobbled up by larger ones ,based too far away to ride my bike. Due to scale, its not worth the farmers time to have part time help when they can hire full time  .

I know several 'big farm' operators, and I do tractor work for some of them. They would be happy to hire kids on summer break to do menial tasks like shoveling manure or moving hay bales. It has nothing to do with low wages or 'wage equality'. Our government has simply decided not to allow kids to work, and in the process has produced at least a generation of kids who don't know what hard work is and how it can be rewarding in it's own right.

[Rattler]

It's political doublespeak in effect when illegals are called immigrants.  George Orwell predicted all of this in his book "1984".  He foresaw the government's desire to control the masses and extrapolated how it would happen.

It's amazing how US citizens can easily find all the info they need to understand how they are being manipulated, yet adopt a level of apathy so immense, they willingly accepting their own demise.

The government has truly gained control of the masses already.

 

[ncountry]

3 hours ago, philoshop said:

I know several 'big farm' operators, and I do tractor work for some of them. They would be happy to hire kids on summer break to do menial tasks like shoveling manure or moving hay bales. It has nothing to do with low wages or 'wage equality'. Our government has simply decided not to allow kids to work, and in the process has produced at least a generation of kids who don't know what hard work is and how it can be rewarding in it's own right.

I think blaming the government  for a lazy generation is too easy.. Parenting is the real problem. I have not had legal issues hiring 16 year old summer help in the past..The problem is  finding someone who wants to work..  depending on the job 14-15 year old kids can work too, as long as it's not on a roof or similarly dangerous job...

[The_Field_Ager]

22 hours ago, philoshop said:

 Our government has simply decided not to allow kids to work, and in the process has produced at least a generation of kids who don't know what hard work is and how it can be rewarding in it's own right.

The litigious origins of our society are Marxist. It is a tactic that has succeeded in undermining the nation in a very serious way.

[philoshop]

23 hours ago, ncountry said:

I think blaming the government  for a lazy generation is too easy.. Parenting is the real problem. I have not had legal issues hiring 16 year old summer help in the past..The problem is  finding someone who wants to work..  depending on the job 14-15 year old kids can work too, as long as it's not on a roof or similarly dangerous job...

I'm trying not to take the "easy" argument here, and I certainly agree that parenting is a big part of the overall downfall of the work ethic among American youth. But, remember that the parents of today's youth are themselves the direct product of government regulation that said young people can't be allowed to do hard work. It has rubbed off on their children. It's already second generation, and it's not going to get better as long as the government is allowed to be the parent.

[The_Field_Ager]

I gave a talk very recently to a bunch of high-schoolers about the realities of working in my field and what it takes. I did not lay it on too thick, but I was told afterward that the students both loved my presentation and were also scared straight by it. One of the big problems is that parents defer to the school system and the Marxist teachers too much (work smart not hard attitude) in terms of forming their kids minds, but younger folk are also not complete idiots and they know the truth when they hear it...which apparently is not that often. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Papist

[ncountry]

1 hour ago, philoshop said:

I'm trying not to take the "easy" argument here, and I certainly agree that parenting is a big part of the overall downfall of the work ethic among American youth. But, remember that the parents of today's youth are themselves the direct product of government regulation that said young people can't be allowed to do hard work. It has rubbed off on their children. It's already second generation, and it's not going to get better as long as the government is allowed to be the parent.

 Maybe growing up and living in a rural environment changes my perception. I just don't see it... 

[Doc]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:13 AM, ncountry said:

100% agree. My only point is directing our resources  and anger at the illegal aliens is mostly a waste of emotions and resources. We need to address the root of the problem. 

Directing our resources and emotions in support of illegal  aliens is just plain stupidity. 

I don't think it is so much directing my anger at illegal aliens as it is anger against those apologists who continue to pretend that there is no value to the sovereignty of our borders. When you call these people what they are (Illegal aliens), it avoids confusing them with all of the legal immigrants who have made an effort to come here respecting our laws and our country. I believe that ALL illegal aliens should be deported when located ...... No exceptions. And whatever means that are required to exclude them and force them to abide by the legal processes in order to set up residency here should be done ........ including the damn wall. Force them to become legal immigrants instead of illegal aliens.

[The_Field_Ager]

There are also many people who have come here legally but form ethnic enclaves around the country, with no desire to integrate. Their goal is to establish a home from home. This is also problematic, perhaps even more so than the issue of illegals as it is more difficult to address. The flames of war now erupting all over Europe are a direct result of this failed program of cultural diversity. No such thing can exist in a nation. It is fractious and ultimately destructive. Diversity + Proximity = war.

[The_Field_Ager]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:26 PM, Rattler said:

 George Orwell predicted all of this in his book "1984".  He foresaw the government's desire to control the masses and extrapolated how it would happen.

 

 

In Britain, in 1968, a politician called Enoch Powell predicted rivers of blood as result of mass migration polices. He was a prophet despite the disasterous fruits only now beginning to show themselves.

[Doc]

16 hours ago, Papist said:

There are also many people who have come here legally but form ethnic enclaves around the country, with no desire to integrate. Their goal is to establish a home from home. This is also problematic, perhaps even more so than the issue of illegals as it is more difficult to address. The flames of war now erupting all over Europe are a direct result of this failed program of cultural diversity. No such thing can exist in a nation. It is fractious and ultimately destructive. Diversity + Proximity = war.

This problem is not new. We have long had areas like "Little Italy" and Chinatown and such where people of like heritage cluster and maintain their own spheres of comfort. No that is not a good result, and takes a lot more generations than should have been necessary for assimilation. But assimilation does eventually come regardless of how many generations it takes. However, those who start off with a philosophy that US rules and laws are for breaking (illegal aliens), pose a much more direct and immediate danger to our society.

[nyantler]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

This problem is not new. We have long had areas like "Little Italy" and Chinatown and such where people of like heritage cluster and maintain their own spheres of comfort. No that is not a good result, and takes a lot more generations than should have been necessary for assimilation. But assimilation does eventually come regardless of how many generations it takes. However, those who start off with a philosophy that US rules and laws are for breaking (illegal aliens), pose a much more direct and immediate danger to our society.

I am a product of immigrant grandparents that held dear their Italian background yet were adamant about assimilating and teaching their children to assimilate to the ways of America. They worked hard to learn English and fit into society, but never forgot their culture. They were hardworking and had a love for the new country that gave them opportunity... never giving up spaghetti and meatballs with a big slab of fresh Italian bread.

[The_Field_Ager]

Islam is the new immigration trend here. Europe has multi-generation Muslim immigrants. Problems related to integration get worse with each generation. Add a mix of new wave blood and we have the tinderbox we now see, ready to explode. Islam never assimilates. Look at its history. It has a religious imperative to conquer. Italians, Irish Poles etc at least had a similar heritage, despite their differences. It was the 1965 immigration act that started our problems. 

[philoshop]

40 minutes ago, Papist said:

Islam is the new immigration trend here. Europe has multi-generation Muslim immigrants. Problems related to integration get worse with each generation. Add a mix of new wave blood and we have the tinderbox we now see, ready to explode. Islam never assimilates. Look at its history. It has a religious imperative to conquer. Italians, Irish Poles etc at least had a similar heritage, despite their differences. It was the 1965 immigration act that started our problems. 

Consider the Emma Lazarus poem hung on the Statue of Liberty. The key phrase is "...the huddled masses yearning to be free...". More and more we're seeing migrants who aren't "yearning to be free", but rather yearning to transpose the desperation and failures of their native countries onto American soil and the American psyche. That's not what we're about, no matter what the Socialists claim.

Everyone is welcome here, but there is one caveat: you have to be willing to add to the American dream as well as take from it. That's what has built our country, and it's actually a pretty simple concept.