DMP permitting = BS!!!!

[eagle rider]

The problem is the habitat sucks in the Catskills as well as Hunter per as mile being very high.. So does are everywhere being seen but there has to be bucks to breed them... Thick nasty areas. Are few and far between from what I've seen Who it turkey hunting there.. 
I suggest you save a few bucks and drive to wny and hunt for a week.. Lots of doe tags and lots of. Deer

Beg to differ. Its not just whats in the woods. Its what you see driving toads in and out of town. The doe are everywhere in the 4's.


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[eagle rider]

And you just hit on the largest point of controversy in the system. how do they really now and how good are their assumptions. That is why I said it like I did. "It is included"  but is it included correctly. I have no freaking idea. 

Id betcha that survey is at least 50% of the decision making for them. I spend a lot of time in the woods and have never even seen a biologists truck on the road. Why don't they set up cameras like we do and start seeing what we really see. My guess is most of who sends those surveys back are hunters who log low hours and / or consider camp time real in the woods contact time.


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[eagle rider]

I saw a lot of posts here on the catkskills and I feel I have to weigh in. I hunt the extreme southern catkskills in between rt 17 and the river. It is very hard to get a dmp I now have 3pp and should get one next year@jmp5008 got one this year. I will say this there are plenty of deer I have seen does running around in groups of 12 or more and have at least 7 different bucks on cam on my 25 acer property. Now I bow hunt and buy my ml tag so that is two for easy I can take without the dmp. So to those who only gun hunt and complain they can't shoot anything go out buy a bow a x bow a ml and get in the games


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We are between 17 and the river as well. I agree. Groups of doe well over the 8 to 10 mark. Sometimes 15 or 20 in a field feeding 50 yards off a road. But the answer isn't restriction on implement. The answer is population control which starts with doe management. Here in Suffolk I see doe on my street with triplet fawns from this year. I hunt all three seasons in 4W. It shouldn't be oh hey muzzle loader season.... last ditch effort to cull doe for the less than 10% of the permit holders who buy a muzz tag. All the state is doing in the southern tier is making sure that the yotes can feed through the winter by relying on this.


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[Chef]

We are between 17 and the river as well. I agree. Groups of doe well over the 8 to 10 mark. Sometimes 15 or 20 in a field feeding 50 yards off a road. But the answer isn't restriction on implement. The answer is population control which starts with doe management. Here in Suffolk I see doe on my street with triplet fawns from this year. I hunt all three seasons in 4W. It shouldn't be oh hey muzzle loader season.... last ditch effort to cull doe for the less than 10% of the permit holders who buy a muzz tag. All the state is doing in the southern tier is making sure that the yotes can feed through the winter by relying on this.


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Yes the answer is population control and it sucks that this is how the state goes about it. Especially in places where I hunt where doe tags are hard to come by and does are all over the place. All I'm saying before complaining people should find other ways to get in the game. Also I never wait for ml to fill that tag it's filled by the first or 2nd week of bow season. Which is perfectly legal for anyone who may complain.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

All I'm saying before complaining people should find other ways to get in the game. Also I never wait for ml to fill that tag it's filled by the first or 2nd week of bow season. Which is perfectly legal for anyone who may complain.


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If they bow hunt or are able to bow hunt.

[G-Man]

This is why I hate comparing ny to States.like Ohio that have mandatory check in for deer ..and they simple add a for for it take wasn't high enough.. Not to mention much shorter season.. You can't manage game with out a game department..we have a enviromental department. That has a small very small game department...and they do the best with what they have.....

Would be so nice to have a nys constitutional amendment for right to hunt and fish to be monitored by a game department.. Deer hunting would improve immensely as well as crossbow and any implement and seasons they require would just be as simple.as adding to or eliminating it by them..instead of by bunch of politicians worried about votes...oh wait we do have a constitutional convention vote this fall...think about it!!!

[Chef]

If they bow hunt or are able to bow hunt.

If you aren't happy with your opportunity by not bow hunting then take matters into your own hands And learn to bow hunt. Why change a law that effects thousands of people instead of
Just changing the way one person behaves. Almost sounds like liberal wining to me.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

If you aren't happy with your opportunity by not bow hunting then take matters into your own hands And learn to bow hunt. Why change a law that effects thousands of people instead of
Just changing the way one person behaves. Almost sounds like liberal wining to me.


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Chef. Us bowhunters are in a he minority. I hear every year about not a chance at doe permits out of guys. To have a more realistic accounting and a shot for the majority, the gun hunters to take a doe. Doesn't effect me. I get more tags than I could possibly fill in a season.

So you have a problem with antlerless being fully accounted for under the lottery system? What are you saying to those that can't physically bow hunt? Kiss off?

[Chef]

Chef. Us bowhunters are in a he minority. I hear every year about not a chance at doe permits out of guys. To have a more realistic accounting and a shot for the majority, the gun hunters to take a doe. Doesn't effect me. I get more tags than I could possibly fill in a season.

So you have a problem with antlerless being fully accounted for under the lottery system? What are you saying to those that can't physically bow hunt? Kiss off?

The state offers alternatives such as using a modified bow... I hunt one of those areas that takes me 3 to 4 years to get a dmp all
I'm saying is people need to spend less time bitching and more time finding a viable solution to their problems


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

The state offers alternatives such as using a modified bow... I hunt one of those areas that takes me 3 to 4 years to get a dmp all
I'm saying is people need to spend less time bitching and more time finding a viable solution to their problems


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Ever know anyone that had to go through the procedure for a modified bow?

Of so since you are able to bow hunt you want that guaranteed tag. Gotcha

[Chef]

Ever know anyone that had to go through the procedure for a modified bow?

Of so since you are able to bow hunt you want that guaranteed tag. Gotcha

Dude I'm just not thinking like a communist.
Not everything has to be fair for everyone.. btw bow tags are either sex because it is much harder to harvest a deer with a bow then it is with a gun. The archery success rate is much Lower.



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[Culvercreek hunt club]

Dude I'm just not thinking like a communist.
Not everything has to be fair for everyone.. btw bow tags are either sex because it is much harder to harvest a deer with a bow then it is with a gun. The archery success rate is much Lower.



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Having better control of antlerless Harvest is Communist? Trust me I take advantage of it. I go up north and fill a antlerless only bow ML tag in the NZ early ML season. I do that in an area that doesn't allow antler-less permits at all for regular season. Does that make sense?

[grampy]

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

Grampy. Apparently the correct thing to do is to tell the little crumb muncher to learn how to bow hunt so he has a chance to hunt does.

How old is he Grampy?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

Grampy. Apparently the correct thing to do is to tell the little crumb muncher to learn how to bow hunt so he has a chance to hunt does.

How old is he Grampy?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

Grampy. Apparently the correct thing to do is to tell the little crumb muncher to learn how to bow hunt so he has a chance to hunt does.

How old is he Grampy?

[Chef]

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

I understand wanting to be able to harvest with your grandson. Which is why they have a youth season. Trying to give you and edge and also to create a safer learning environment. As far for does being hit by cars. That is also a piece to the puzzle. They figure in mortality rate of other causes when deciding how many dmps to offer.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, chefhunter86 said:

I understand wanting to be able to harvest with your grandson. Which is why they have a youth season. Trying to give you and edge and also to create a safer learning environment. 

As long as he is only 14 or 15.

[steve863]

10 hours ago, chefhunter86 said:

If you aren't happy with your opportunity by not bow hunting then take matters into your own hands And learn to bow hunt. Why change a law that effects thousands of people instead of
Just changing the way one person behaves. Almost sounds like liberal wining to me.


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Don't like your idea at all.  Why should bowhunters be the only ones allowed to kill a doe?  Why should someone now have to buy another weapon and spend all the time needed to become proficient with it?  Much prefer Culver's idea where NO one gets an either sex tag initially.  They should all be given out on a draw basis where everyone gets an equal crack at the draw.  Then it will be up to the hunter to decide what season they want to try to fill that tag in.  Very simple and FAIR solution. 

 

 

 

[chas0218]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

Don't like your idea at all.  Why should bowhunters be the only ones allowed to kill a doe?  Why should someone now have to buy another weapon and spend all the time needed to become proficient with it?  Much prefer Culver's idea where NO one gets an either sex tag initially.  They should all be given out on a draw basis where everyone gets an equal crack at the draw.  Then it will be up to the hunter to decide what season they want to try to fill that tag in.  Very simple and FAIR solution. 

 

 

 

It's just too logical to do it that way.

10 hours ago, grampy said:

Bought license today for grandson and myself. No 4-H DMP this year. But within a mile or so from here, two doe have been killed by vehicles in the last week. 

Youth should be the only ones that should get an either sex tag they can take advantage of any opportunity they get.

11 hours ago, chefhunter86 said:

Dude I'm just not thinking like a communist.
Not everything has to be fair for everyone.. btw bow tags are either sex because it is much harder to harvest a deer with a bow then it is with a gun. The archery success rate is much Lower.



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Anyone that picks up a bow and heads to the woods knows that it is more difficult to harvest a deer with the bow than a gun. For the majority of the guys that bow hunt know this and is the driving reason why they do it. Not many drop $1k just to feed their family off venison. Whether the success rate is lower or not why should a bow hunter have a chance to take either sex deer over a gun hunter? I'm a bow hunter and feel as though everyone should get their fair chance at a doe permit we all pay for licenses and still isn't a guarantee but at least you have a chance. 

 

I also think they should offer a "Grand Slam" license and if you buy a sportsman, bow, and ML you get free DMP's.

Edited September 18, 2017 by chas0218

[grampy]

9 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Grampy. Apparently the correct thing to do is to tell the little crumb muncher to learn how to bow hunt so he has a chance to hunt does.

How old is he Grampy?

He is 13, a Jr. Archer, and getting to be pretty good shooting his bow. Second season for him. Looking for his first deer this year. We will not be too picky on what that deer it will be. Doe, young buck, or one of the decent bucks, that show up now and then. First good shot he gets, he's taking. 

[Padre86]

On 9/15/2017 at 9:40 AM, Buckmaster7600 said:

5h and 5f


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I'm aware of those areas (in fact, I hunt 5h).  But that's not western NY and the deer density isn't the same up there.

[Chef]

Don't like your idea at all.  Why should bowhunters be the only ones allowed to kill a doe?  Why should someone now have to buy another weapon and spend all the time needed to become proficient with it?  Much prefer Culver's idea where NO one gets an either sex tag initially.  They should all be given out on a draw basis where everyone gets an equal crack at the draw.  Then it will be up to the hunter to decide what season they want to try to fill that tag in.  Very simple and FAIR solution. 
 
 
 

Because it is that much harder to kill a deer with a bow, they are giving a incentive to get people into bow hunting and also more of a opportunity to harvest a animal with their bow... it's funny how all these non bow hunters are just looking for a cheap way out.


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[steve863]

So because it's much harder to kill a doe with a bow, I must now buy a bow and all the gizmos which will probably cost more than a rifle and scope, become proficient with it, and then spend more time hunting if I want to kill that doe?   What kind of sense does that make?  If you want to hunt with a bow exclusively I could care less, but don't tell anyone else that they need to get into bowhunting in order to kill that doe.  That sounds more "communist" than anything anyone else has written in this thread. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Because it is that much harder to kill a deer with a bow, they are giving a incentive to get people into bow hunting and also more of a opportunity to harvest a animal with their bow... it's funny how all these non bow hunters are just looking for a cheap way out.


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How long have you been hunting?