Busted hunting on Staten Island

[growalot]

BTW...With all this said.. did any of you consider this

He dropped the "crowbar" and admitted hunting deer...was actually a typo... and should have read..."He dropped the "crossbow" and admitted hunting deer.

Now don't you think that makes more sense?..Seeing not just the average  writer relies on word check..but progressions count on it as well...proof readers are supposedly redundant

See there ..I didn't write progressions count..I wrote professionals count...not all spell checks work well either....point.

Edited October 13, 2017 by growalot

[Nomad]

I don’t have any weapons in my car , only tools and sporting equipment , like this handy flashlight .

[Salmon_Run]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

I'm glad you mentioned this and I think you would be the one to ask. When trespassing with a weapon (gun, bow, pistol, or crossbow) is it criminal trespassing or not? I have heard contradicting arguments none from an LEO. I would like the record set straight, I thought that it was criminal if the intent was to take or damage personal property otherwise it is not considered criminal trespassing.

Thanks guys, I retired after 32 years of enforcement and was a road patrol Lieutenant for over 1/2 my career. I'll simplify theses as below because there are differing degrees of the penal law, and subsections to each individual law. 

Simple trespass is when you are on property without invite or asked to  leave and refuse. (violation)

Criminal trespass is when you trespass and it is upon real property such as a building or confined area.  (misdemeanor)

Burglary is when you trespass and have the intent to commit another crime while trespassing. (felony)

Possession of a weapon is tricky, again because there are so many subsections of law. Normally possession of a weapon is when one possession an object (weapon) while committing another crime,  or with intent to use the weapon against another, or if possession is prohibited by nature of where one possesses the weapon. An example would be a billy club on school property, a screw driver while committing a burglary or a using a hammer when assaulting another. A lot of these examples fit the statute but discretion needs to be used.  

A person enters a store that is open, during business hours and has the intent to steal property from within they have actually committed burglary even though the store was open and there was no forced entry. It get rather complicated and any officer needs to examine the totality of the case and use discretion when charging. 

Again, theses examples are greatly simplified for the sake of discussion.  

[Salmon_Run]

25 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

I don’t have any weapons in my car , only tools and sporting equipment , like this handy flashlight .

Great example, it is simply a common mag light sold at every Walmart in the country. Not illegal to possess by simple possession.

However, (for sake of conversation) one is involved in a road rage situation and exits one's vehicle in possession of that mag light and strikes another with the light. The light by state statue has become a "weapon"..

 

[chas0218]

2 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

Great example, it is simply a common mag light sold at every Walmart in the country. Not illegal to possess by simple possession.

However, (for sake of conversation) one is involved in a road rage situation and exits one's vehicle in possession of that mag light and strikes another with the light. The light by state statue has become a "weapon"..

 

Good to know, so basically anything used to cause harm would be considered a weapon. Makes sense now and the trespassing thing. 

[Salmon_Run]

Believe me it get confusing as anything, if you ever peruse the New York State Penal Law and notice the sub-section and if/or's all listed. I actually subscribed to a publishing company that sent me each law modification for Penal , Vehicle & Traffic and Criminal Procedure Laws as they were written into law by the legislation.

A great number of these fall upon the officer to make judgement calls regarding to intent or recklessness. It gets crazy and some unfortunately don't use the best "discretion" when making arrests..   

[Core]

10 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Good to know, so basically anything used to cause harm would be considered a weapon. Makes sense now and the trespassing thing. 

Also cops will, depending on mood and who you are, become rather inventive. If I was to, for example, have a locking knife I bought from Walmart in NY and it meets NY state law (which is in my view deliberately vague), and I have it as a utility knife, it's legal. However, if a cop stops me and decides that he thinks I have it as a weapon (and maybe he even grabs it not by the handle, but by the blade, and is able to swing it open with one hand), well I can be charged over it. And then since I don't want a big court case and $20k in legal fees, the prosecutor has me plea to a lesser charge, which I eagerly take. And so in the end I've been absolutely @*#(ed over by one of the worst justice systems in the developed world and there was nothing I could really have done to prevent it happening.

[growalot]

13 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

Great example, it is simply a common mag light sold at every Walmart in the country. Not illegal to possess by simple possession.

However, (for sake of conversation) one is involved in a road rage situation and exits one's vehicle in possession of that mag light and strikes another with the light. The light by state statue has become a "weapon"..

 

Now To that If you have a person willing to say they FELT in danger and or threatened with bodily harm, by just your having the item in your hand charges can be filed....If a persons words make one feel threatened charges can be filed....

[Core]

7 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

A great number of these fall upon the officer to make judgement calls regarding to intent or recklessness. It gets crazy and some unfortunately don't use the best "discretion" when making arrests..   

NY knife law is deliberately, intentionally vague so that if a cop has a run-in with somebody he doesn't like he can start piling on weapons charges.

I understand a mag light is a mag light unless you leave your car in a road rage incident with it. That's easy to understand, but I'm positive a lot of people have been steamrolled by dirty police work and unreasonable prosecutors over vague laws.

[chas0218]

1 minute ago, growalot said:

Now To that If you have a person willing to say they FELT in danger and or threatened with bodily harm, by just your having the item in your hand charges can be filed....If a persons words make one feel threatened charges can be filed....

We know that just by all the stuff we have seen with the statues and what not. Pretty sad to be honest.

[growalot]

Careful Core..talking about real life will get you labeled a liar..

[Nomad]

Enjoy your retirement  maxed out on LTs pay nice ! I'm  retiring in May which will complete 28 years on the FD  ( LT ) . I'll miss the clowns but not the circus .

 

[Salmon_Run]

2 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

Enjoy your retirement  maxed out on LTs pay nice ! I'm  retiring in May which will complete 28 years on the FD  ( LT ) . I'll miss the clowns but not the circus .

 

Well said !!!

I know these post create arguments because we all someone who was "wronged' along the way by the law... I get that and it is very difficult to help explain things because a large part of enforcement is discretionary by police, attorneys and judges.

Best of luck all ....  

[Salmon_Run]

11 minutes ago, growalot said:

Now To that If you have a person willing to say they FELT in danger and or threatened with bodily harm, by just your having the item in your hand charges can be filed....If a persons words make one feel threatened charges can be filed....

That's menacing another and an entire different law charge.....

Imagine this for a minute, it is 2:00 am and you've had little sleep, too much coffee and you are trying to read penal law and decipher charges all the while someone is in the backseat of your car, drunk, kicking, spitting and yelling at the top of their lungs at you..

 

[growalot]

Quote

Imagine this for a minute, it is 2:00 am and you've had little sleep, too much coffee and you are trying to read penal law and decipher charges all the while someone is in the backseat of your car, drunk, kicking, spitting and yelling at the top of their lungs at you..

I'm not sure why you mentioned that ...apparently to me. because I never said all cops and I clearly said the judge was sympathetic, it was the school and their ppl.

Now Here is experience  I was arrested because the crazy neighbor with the dogs I refused to shoot. Had her daughter and her little friend, tell the sheriffs I  said, now this is a quote..." If you step foot on my property I'll snap you in two". They showed up at my door to charge me with child endangerment and assault. This 10 mins before I was to leave to go to court over their dogs killing my chickens in my yard...I had a restraining order put against me...He even tried taking our guns ..wait for it..until she realized they were Mr.B's guns being taken and told her buddy justice  no no that wasn't necessary, he said OK...lol The sheriff who knew it was all lies turned up at court that night and the justice...who's family homestead this neighbor bought...literally, verbally threw him out and said this is going to the DA..

I can laugh now..my lawyer ,whom refused to charge me a fee wasn't. Now I had to not have all charges dropped as the lawyer originally wanted ..I had to INSIST on mediation..why? Well ppl had had enough and told me her plans..had she coached her daughter to say I touched her I would have been hauled off to jail that night..but she didn't know this at the time..so she told all her friends that was her next course of action..That justice I was filing misconduct charges against ..but the lawyer and DA talked me out of it. saying he would be retiring very soon..and he did. Mediation was absolutely CRAZY her kids approached and were playing with me in the waiting room I was reading them stories..OH ya and they were quietly questioned when we were in the mediation room and they were in the waiting room...Then the other mediator came in a "testified" to what they saw first hand and the kids said..

All this and why..We bought the land she thought she had first rights to..

Edited October 13, 2017 by growalot

[Doewhacker]

[Salmon_Run]

2 minutes ago, growalot said:

I'm not sure why you mentioned that ...apparently to me. because I never said all cops and I clearly said the judge was sympathetic, it was the school and their ppl.

 

That had absolutely nothing to do with any prior post or comment you made.

It was a "just imagine" trying to read the penal law, decipher the subsections and make judgement calls all the while you have someone under arrest who is off the hook in your back seat.

[growalot]

Got it..believe me I know you had a tough job...and like all jobs there are good and bad workers.. Most ppl don't understand, that for some uncanny reason, Bad people have a keen way of working every angle the law allows and damn if it doesn't allow a whole lot...

[Doewhacker]

5 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

That had absolutely nothing to do with any prior post or comment you made.

It was a "just imagine" trying to read the penal law, decipher the subsections and make judgement calls all the while you have someone under arrest who is off the hook in your back seat.

That's kinda what I do when I try to read a post of Grow's which I very rarely do.

[Core]

32 minutes ago, growalot said:

I'm not sure why you mentioned that ...apparently to me. because I never said all cops and I clearly said the judge was sympathetic, it was the school and their ppl.

Now Here is experience  I was arrested because the crazy neighbor with the dogs I refused to shoot. Had her daughter and her little friend, tell the sheriffs I  said, now this is a quote..." If you step foot on my property I'll snap you in two". They showed up at my door to charge me with child endangerment and assault. This 10 mins before I was to leave to go to court over their dogs killing my chickens in my yard...I had a restraining order put against me...He even tried taking our guns ..wait for it..until she realized they were Mr.B's guns being taken and told her buddy justice  no no that wasn't necessary, he said OK...lol The sheriff who knew it was all lies turned up at court that night and the justice...who's family homestead this neighbor bought...literally, verbally threw him out and said this is going to the DA..

I can laugh now..my lawyer ,whom refused to charge me a fee wasn't. Now I had to not have all charges dropped as the lawyer originally wanted ..I had to INSIST on mediation..why? Well ppl had had enough and told me her plans..had she coached her daughter to say I touched her I would have been hauled off to jail that night..but she didn't know this at the time..so she told all her friends that was her next course of action..That justice I was filing misconduct charges against ..but the lawyer and DA talked me out of it. saying he would be retiring very soon..and he did. Mediation was absolutely CRAZY her kids approached and were playing with me in the waiting room I was reading them stories..OH ya and they were quietly questioned when we were in the mediation room and they were in the waiting room...Then the other mediator came in a "testified" to what they saw first hand and the kids said..

All this and why..We bought the land she thought she had first rights to..

Your life can get messed up because somebody makes up some garbage about you. It's one of the reasons I surround my house with cameras, why I have dash cams in my cars as well.  At some future point technology will have us filming everything we do 24/7 and uploading it to the cloud and at that point at least false accusations like this will be a thing of the past (as well as privacy also gone).

[Rattler]

Just to get back to the O.P. here.

It should not be illegal to hunt deer on Staten Island with archery equipment and the charges filed against this man are ludicrous.  There are real criminals running around that place and the law is not doing crap about them. 

If he had a bow license and wasn't using corn in the woods, give this guy a ticket for hunting in a no hunting zone and using a crossbow and leave it at that.  

If deer hunting is not allowed there soon, the people will soon regret it, as the overpopulation will cause real problems at huge taxpayer expense.  Check out the history of Princeton, NJ if you doubt it.

[Core]

3 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Just to get back to the O.P. here.

It should not be illegal to hunt deer on Staten Island with archery equipment and the charges filed against this man are ludicrous.  There are real criminals running around that place and the law is not doing crap about them. 

If he had a bow license and wasn't using corn in the woods, give this guy a ticket for hunting in a no hunting zone and using a crossbow and leave it at that.  

If deer hunting is not allowed there soon, the people will soon regret it, as the overpopulation will cause real problems at huge taxpayer expense.  Check out the history of Princeton, NJ if you doubt it.

I assume they already have car accidents and ticks all over the place, but people don't care.

What's really important here is that the cop got a big pat on the back for his "vigilance" in taking down this menace to society. I agree he should be ticketed for hunting in a non-hunting area and using the wrong implement, but it's not like he was building bombs in his shed.

[growalot]

Did they actually find any corn in the woods?  Now that article seemed to run..was the year long investigation...YEAR LONG! maybe they were trying to catch venison sales ..venison gets a dang good price in NYC..any how two different incidences?

[Rattler]

The year long investigation they referred to was a different guy who was a serial poacher.  I think he was busted last year.

[growalot]

Bill I have him and a few others on block ..so I don't see what they write and I don't really care...same ole same ole...