Working on a new prosthetic arm

[crappyice]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeJe9vkUrihdd0xmog8Z0sA

Pretty cool but WAY TOO MUCH ice for whiskey!


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[BizCT]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeJe9vkUrihdd0xmog8Z0sA

Really cool. How does the hand know when to grab and/or let go? I assume some sort of programming. But how long does that take?


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[Team Hoyt]

3 hours ago, Bionic said:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeJe9vkUrihdd0xmog8Z0sA

That's pretty sweet

[crappyice]

Really cool. How does the hand know when to grab and/or let go? I assume some sort of programming. But how long does that take?


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Pretty sure that’s the Jetti-mind controlled version...cool indeed! Not that we get to meet him and ask him on 2/2. He’s too busy with his new friends in TEXAS!


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[Bionic]

10 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Really cool. How does the hand know when to grab and/or let go? I assume some sort of programming. But how long does that take?


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Its just like a gun, it will not do anything unless I make it do something.  I am going to be making more youtube videos, and I think your question will be a video itself! I will explain how I pick up the ice, and such now though.  

With your arm down to your side, as if standing, make a fist,  with a fist bend your wrist by moving your hand towards your thigh...notice a muscle buldge just below your elbow on the inside? That muscle closes the hand.  It also moves the wrist counterclockwise.  If that muscle is flexed lightly, and slowly it operates the hand, if its flexed firmly/fast it rotates the powered wrist.  Now, back to the fist, now move your hand by bending your wrost so the hand moves away from your leg, notice the muscle buldge below your elbow on the opposite side? That muscle opens the hand, and rotates wrist clockwise.  

To pick up the ice, you simply need good muscle control, sonyou can give just enough pressure on the ice to not make the ice slide out from force.  I am just firing those muscles, with the right amount of intensity, which I have learned throughout my life.

does that make sense?

[BizCT]

Its just like a gun, it will not do anything unless I make it do something.  I am going to be making more youtube videos, and I think your question will be a video itself! I will explain how I pick up the ice, and such now though.  
With your arm down to your side, as if standing, make a fist,  with a fist bend your wrist by moving your hand towards your thigh...notice a muscle buldge just below your elbow on the inside? That muscle closes the hand.  It also moves the wrist counterclockwise.  If that muscle is flexed lightly, and slowly it operates the hand, if its flexed firmly/fast it rotates the powered wrist.  Now, back to the fist, now move your hand by bending your wrost so the hand moves away from your leg, notice the muscle buldge below your elbow on the opposite side? That muscle opens the hand, and rotates wrist clockwise.  
To pick up the ice, you simply need good muscle control, sonyou can give just enough pressure on the ice to not make the ice slide out from force.  I am just firing those muscles, with the right amount of intensity, which I have learned throughout my life.
does that make sense?

Yea makes sense. Pretty awesome. I assume like anything else, practice practice makes perfect.


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[The_Real_TCIII]

I love the recommendations after I click your video


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[The_Real_TCIII]

Its just like a gun, it will not do anything unless I make it do something.  I am going to be making more youtube videos, and I think your question will be a video itself! I will explain how I pick up the ice, and such now though.  
With your arm down to your side, as if standing, make a fist,  with a fist bend your wrist by moving your hand towards your thigh...notice a muscle buldge just below your elbow on the inside? That muscle closes the hand.  It also moves the wrist counterclockwise.  If that muscle is flexed lightly, and slowly it operates the hand, if its flexed firmly/fast it rotates the powered wrist.  Now, back to the fist, now move your hand by bending your wrost so the hand moves away from your leg, notice the muscle buldge below your elbow on the opposite side? That muscle opens the hand, and rotates wrist clockwise.  
To pick up the ice, you simply need good muscle control, sonyou can give just enough pressure on the ice to not make the ice slide out from force.  I am just firing those muscles, with the right amount of intensity, which I have learned throughout my life.
does that make sense?

Incredible.


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[Bionic]

Headed back to Austin on Thursday, anyone interested in a trip tag-a-long post?

[G-Man]

Amazing in assume some built in electromagneric sensors pick up the muscle movement to transfer intensity? What if entire limb was missing could they attach sensor pad to say lower spine for legs???..the nerves would still be firing I would think ..perhaps that is good use of the phantom limb feeling I've read about...

[crappyice]

Headed back to Austin on Thursday, anyone interested in a trip tag-a-long post?

Pay my way and I will ACTUALLY tag along! Can’t wait to hear the next adventure- see you Saturday in Peekskill!


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[Bionic]

3 hours ago, G-Man said:

Amazing in assume some built in electromagneric sensors pick up the muscle movement to transfer intensity? What if entire limb was missing could they attach sensor pad to say lower spine for legs???..the nerves would still be firing I would think ..perhaps that is good use of the phantom limb feeling I've read about...

Yes, on each side of the prosthesis, an “electrode” is countersunk within the arm’s socket.  The socket is where my real arm goes into the prosthesis.  Each electrode has a gain control just like trailer brakes, 1-9 setting I believe, you use a very small straight blade screwdriver to turn a circular switch.  The electrodes are usually accessed from the outside to adjust the gain.  On my painted arm, I wanted a super clean show like appearance, so I had the arm fabricator fiberglass over them.  This is ok, because once your gain is dialed in, you really never have to adjust again, at least in my experience.  Also, these arms are all able to be programmed wirelessly through bluetooth on a laptop.  The gain can be adjusted at the hand through a laptop.  It is there where all the thresholds are dialed in for the speed/intensity to decipher when the wrist moves, or hand moves, for use of that ONE muscle.  

That setup is a 2 channel setup. There are single channel systems as well with older tech hands.  Basically a hand that ONLY opens/closes....so with a single channel(1 electrode) the hand is always closed, to open that hand you fire your muscle, once you relax it closes automatically.  To keep hand open, you hold that muscle flex for as long as needed to.  

There are multichannel systems as well....new tech is currently being developed too.  I have personally tried it, it was like 8-10 electrodes to operate a Vincent hand if I remember correctly.  Tough to describe but, when you make a fist and say 5 muscles aid in making a fist(on a real life hand) you woukd flex those 5 muscles on a multi channel system to make a fist with that hand....make sense? If you point with your index, and close the rest of your hand, you can do that too on multi channel.  On a 2 channel you would flex the one electrode in a sequence that was set on the laptop. That sequence might be to open the hand and hold the muscle flex for 2 additional seconds, then fire that muscle on-off-on then you enter “point” mode....where the hand auto closes your thumb, pinky, ring, and middle.  This only works if the hand is CAPABLE of the multi articulation.  This may sound like a great setup, and be simple, but for a congenital amputee born never knowing what muscle controlled what, it can be VERY difficult, I found that I always funneled back to using the same 2 muscles I have used for 25+ years...my brain is so programmed, that you need to reprogram your mind.  These systems in my opinion are better for traumatic amputees who lost their limb...they might have that phantom sensation of where the muscle used to be, or at least a better chance of isolating the use of multiple individual muscles for different controls.

to answer your question about location, yes you can put an electrode essentially anywhere.  I have heard of electrodes in the shoe for individuals who have no arms at all from shoulder down.  As long as you can flex that muscle with control its ok.  I have seen chest electrode sites even.  

[crappyice]

Yes, on each side of the prosthesis, an “electrode” is countersunk within the arm’s socket.  The socket is where my real arm goes into the prosthesis.  Each electrode has a gain control just like trailer brakes, 1-9 setting I believe, you use a very small straight blade screwdriver to turn a circular switch.  The electrodes are usually accessed from the outside to adjust the gain.  On my painted arm, I wanted a super clean show like appearance, so I had the arm fabricator fiberglass over them.  This is ok, because once your gain is dialed in, you really never have to adjust again, at least in my experience.  Also, these arms are all able to be programmed wirelessly through bluetooth on a laptop.  The gain can be adjusted at the hand through a laptop.  It is there where all the thresholds are dialed in for the speed/intensity to decipher when the wrist moves, or hand moves, for use of that ONE muscle.  
That setup is a 2 channel setup. There are single channel systems as well with older tech hands.  Basically a hand that ONLY opens/closes....so with a single channel(1 electrode) the hand is always closed, to open that hand you fire your muscle, once you relax it closes automatically.  To keep hand open, you hold that muscle flex for as long as needed to.  
There are multichannel systems as well....new tech is currently being developed too.  I have personally tried it, it was like 8-10 electrodes to operate a Vincent hand if I remember correctly.  Tough to describe but, when you make a fist and say 5 muscles aid in making a fist(on a real life hand) you woukd flex those 5 muscles on a multi channel system to make a fist with that hand....make sense? If you point with your index, and close the rest of your hand, you can do that too on multi channel.  On a 2 channel you would flex the one electrode in a sequence that was set on the laptop. That sequence might be to open the hand and hold the muscle flex for 2 additional seconds, then fire that muscle on-off-on then you enter “point” mode....where the hand auto closes your thumb, pinky, ring, and middle.  This only works if the hand is CAPABLE of the multi articulation.  This may sound like a great setup, and be simple, but for a congenital amputee born never knowing what muscle controlled what, it can be VERY difficult, I found that I always funneled back to using the same 2 muscles I have used for 25+ years...my brain is so programmed, that you need to reprogram your mind.  These systems in my opinion are better for traumatic amputees who lost their limb...they might have that phantom sensation of where the muscle used to be, or at least a better chance of isolating the use of multiple individual muscles for different controls.
to answer your question about location, yes you can put an electrode essentially anywhere.  I have heard of electrodes in the shoe for individuals who have no arms at all from shoulder down.  As long as you can flex that muscle with control its ok.  I have seen chest electrode sites even.  

Like I said...Jedi mind tricks!

So cool that someone figured that out and changed lives of those who need it. Truly a remarkable example of the power of the human mind. I, on the other hand, can’t work my tv remote!


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[turkeyfeathers]

5 minutes ago, crappyice said:

 I, on the other hand, can’t work my tv remote!


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Because you’re trying to do so with your garage door opener and that’s not your tv , that’s the microwave 

[Bionic]

 

[crappyice]

Allow me to be serious (which is not my MO) but I am wondering, is there one thing that you hope you are able to do with your new prosthetic?



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[Bionic]

9 minutes ago, crappyice said:

Allow me to be serious (which is not my MO) but I am wondering, is there one thing that you hope you are able to do with your new prosthetic?



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I was actually asked a similar wuestion while at the event in Texas a couple weeks ago.  I was asked is there anything that I cannot do with the prosthesis, that you wish you could do...The way I answered that was like this....I have used myoelectric hands for over 25 yrs, and combining that with being born this way, I will always find a way to complete a task that needs to be done.  I was trying not to sound arrogant by that, but I am such a determined person that I get mad if anything tries to defeat me.  Knowing that, if the task is somewhat sketchy with the use of the prosthesis, I will just remove the arm and do what I need to without it on.  Hopefully that answers your question? 

Also, this is not specific to any prosthesis, but what I cannot do with any prosthesis is eat with it, I wod love to be able to feed myself with a fork with the prosthesis itself.  I simply do not have the range of motion with my elbow to bend far enough to reach my mouth, not even close.  

Also, I am not sure at this point what my next arm/hand combo will be.  I have been wearing this brand new Michelangelo hand with the life like skin covering, and compared to my 6 yr old Michelangelo with the black skin glove, the wear on thr joints, etc is not really noticeable compared to new.  Hand has over 700 parts in it, so I an surprised the hand is not sloppy if that makes sense.  I might go for a new Michelangelo hand, but I would have a completely different arm built for the hand.

the new arm when the time comes, will hopefully have a different socket design(where my real arm goes into the fake arm).  It will hopefully be a skin fit style, with an air bladder pump, that adds a little support to the prosthesis on my real arm.  Hard to describe.  My current arms have that silicone liner that rolls onto my real arm, and it has an integrated pin, that inserts, and attaches to the inside of the arm to hold it on firmly.  The new socket im hoping wont have this liner setup, and will use that air socket I mentioned before 

[BizCT]

I was actually asked a similar wuestion while at the event in Texas a couple weeks ago.  I was asked is there anything that I cannot do with the prosthesis, that you wish you could do...The way I answered that was like this....I have used myoelectric hands for over 25 yrs, and combining that with being born this way, I will always find a way to complete a task that needs to be done.  I was trying not to sound arrogant by that, but I am such a determined person that I get mad if anything tries to defeat me.  Knowing that, if the task is somewhat sketchy with the use of the prosthesis, I will just remove the arm and do what I need to without it on.  Hopefully that answers your question? 
Also, this is not specific to any prosthesis, but what I cannot do with any prosthesis is eat with it, I wod love to be able to feed myself with a fork with the prosthesis itself.  I simply do not have the range of motion with my elbow to bend far enough to reach my mouth, not even close.  
Also, I am not sure at this point what my next arm/hand combo will be.  I have been wearing this brand new Michelangelo hand with the life like skin covering, and compared to my 6 yr old Michelangelo with the black skin glove, the wear on thr joints, etc is not really noticeable compared to new.  Hand has over 700 parts in it, so I an surprised the hand is not sloppy if that makes sense.  I might go for a new Michelangelo hand, but I would have a completely different arm built for the hand.
the new arm when the time comes, will hopefully have a different socket design(where my real arm goes into the fake arm).  It will hopefully be a skin fit style, with an air bladder pump, that adds a little support to the prosthesis on my real arm.  Hard to describe.  My current arms have that silicone liner that rolls onto my real arm, and it has an integrated pin, that inserts, and attaches to the inside of the arm to hold it on firmly.  The new socket im hoping wont have this liner setup, and will use that air socket I mentioned before 

Regarding feeding yourself, I think you’re saying prosthetic has no elbow? Is this something they can possibly be made someday?


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[Marion]

If they tech came to the point where they could grow an arm and attach it, would you do that? Or would you stick with what I could only imagine would be very similarly advanced prostheses?

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[Bionic]

4 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Regarding feeding yourself, I think you’re saying prosthetic has no elbow? Is this something they can possibly be made someday?


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What I mean is I cannot put food in my mouth if the fork is in the fake hand.  I have my real elbow, but the bone is so short after the elbow that does not allow the fake hand to reach near my mouth.  I cant drink from a glass with the fake hand either.  I will post a pic of how far my fake hand is from my mouth, when in reality that is as close as I can get.  

Assuming you thought I did not have an elbow on fake arm side? If so, and if you were asking if that were my case, can they provide an Prosthetic elbow in the future.  If that were the case, absolutely.  Power bending elbows are long available, and even manual bending elbows with lock pins are available.  Same for shoulders too, they are wild! I thank god I have my elbow all kidding a side, thats when life gets difficult!

[Bionic]

2 hours ago, The Jerkman said:

If they tech came to the point where they could grow an arm and attach it, would you do that? Or would you stick with what I could only imagine would be very similarly advanced prostheses?

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They have done a few arm, and/or hand transplants actually if I remember correctly in randoms news headlines.  However, my dad always said, and says to this day, if he could give me his arm, he would in a heartbeat.  I would NEVER want a real human left hand/arm.  It adds a lot of character to me, and its giving me amazing opportunities, as you guys are seeing.  

To be personal, I have often wondered how my life would be if I was born “normal”.  I have anxiety of crowds, am honestly a quiet person for many interactions until I am comfortable with that person.  When I do act as if crowds do not bother me, and that anxiety goes away, I always can chit chat, and hold conversations easily, and this is typically when I have had some alcohol.  

[Marion]

They have done a few arm, and/or hand transplants actually if I remember correctly in randoms news headlines.  However, my dad always said, and says to this day, if he could give me his arm, he would in a heartbeat.  I would NEVER want a real human left hand/arm.  It adds a lot of character to me, and its giving me amazing opportunities, as you guys are seeing.  
To be personal, I have often wondered how my life would be if I was born “normal”.  I have anxiety of crowds, am honestly a quiet person for many interactions until I am comfortable with that person.  When I do act as if crowds do not bother me, and that anxiety goes away, I always can chit chat, and hold conversations easily, and this is typically when I have had some alcohol.  

Trust me I don't think anything would be different. I have both arms and too big of a crowd just isn't my scene. I do think that the bionic arm is pretty cool especially learning how far the tech is coming through your postings. It's really incredible stuff

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[Bionic]

Texas tomorrow guys, i am really excited about it.  Hopefully when this stuff is released I can post a link to what was taken.  I want to see if I can take pics along the way of the set, and so on.

[crappyice]

Texas tomorrow guys, i am really excited about it.  Hopefully when this stuff is released I can post a link to what was taken.  I want to see if I can take pics along the way of the set, and so on.

Awesome - keep us posted! It’s always better to ask forgiveness then permission! Safe travels- see you Saturday in Peekskill!


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[Bionic]

11 minutes ago, crappyice said:

Awesome - keep us posted! It’s always better to ask forgiveness then permission! Safe travels- see you Saturday in Peekskill!


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You crack me up lol

i am thinking about posting pics like a phene of the trip 

i have been awake for 40 hrs, and am on my 4th wind, dont mind me

Edited January 31, 2019 by Bionic