Killing Bucks with poor genetics

[gjs4]

Wow the attitude of this site has changed so much. Personally- I like it

As for having so many obligations being an excuse for shootig something brown- just call it what it is boys; you like killing animals. If you live in the NZ where shooting anything is "hard" that is a different deal but most of the SZ has way too many does ... do everyone a favor and change that while letting younger bucks grow up into a lasting memory of folks afield.... rather than something rotting in a box, or on the wall, in the back of your garage.

Oh yeah- if you want to compare: obligations, kids, bills and work hours- bring it on.... do not know who the kid is who you were busting on but your argument is as bad as your hunting approach. Please note even the DEC has recommended for the past few years that people pass yearly bucks...go to their webpage and check that out....because I know if my family was hurting for food i would be online beating up some kid over why I shoot little bucks.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

I can't believe that there is so much resentment to the fact that ya might have to let spikes, threes and most four pointers walk by. Imagine letting a buck walk by and the next year seeing him growing up. It's much more rewarding then walking up to him being a dead spike. Try letting a deer walk by. It's much more rewarding. Try not shooting a deer just cause it's a deer. It's much more rewarding. Try enjoying the hunt, not the kill. It's much more rewarding. A yearling buck is the dumbest animal in the woods come November. It's it really satisfying killing him?

While I share your opinion, it is only an opinion. Whats rewarding to you may not be whats rewarding to the next guy. Whos to say that Joe Blow doesnt feel completely rewarded by walking up to the spike he just shot?

I have never even put my sights upon a buck with less than 8 points, but Im not going to tell anyone else what they should shoot.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Nope it's just annoying when people take away from everyone else's hunting just because they think that shooting a small buck for the "meat" justifies the kill. Quite frankly I do feel that being a better steward of the land, and practicing better deer management is the right way to hunt, and I don't care who disagrees with me because your probably just a killer not a hunter. It's not very stewardly to have an itchy trigger finger everytime a small buck walks by, plus how proud are u really of holding up a spike horn with ur thumb and 2 fingers two your buddies? Sorry but I'm way to passionate about hunting to be conservative about my feelings on this subject, the last thing I intend to do is drive people away from such a great forum!

See my last post.

BTW, just a little advice, saying someone is a killer and not a hunter because they dont share the same opinion as you makes you the bad person in the situation. Youre gonna end up getting your butt handed to ya someday saying things like that.

[Pygmy]

gjs4... You are busting my chops because I said I like to kill animals. ?...

So what is it that you are doing out there ?

I suppose that you might grimace when you squeeze the trigger or release your arrow, knowing that , if you did things right, some poor woodland creature will be meeting its end.

Personally, I feel a sense of exhilaration when I drop a big game animal, or a turkey, or fold a duck or goose with a good shot, or make a nice shot on a squirrel.  Must be I am doing something wrong or immoral.  All these years I have been a BAD person.

Perhaps you have rubber suction cups on your arrows and practice "catch and release" bowhunting..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How about this all you guys that feel so high and mighty letting the little ones walk......hop of you high horse and get the law changed....until then quit trying to make the ones tha have a legal rightto shoot a spikefeel like a criminal. You are pompus and arrogant. How dare you.....and for the record I DO enjoy killing animals.....and I would believe you do to. Unless you have some special catch and release technique I am not aware of

[burmjohn]

Before this gets out of hand, lets all realize that everyone seems fairly passionate about the sport.  Keep the arguments civil.

[JCTheGC]

Still, I resent the state mandating that I should not shoot a buck unless it has 3 or 4 points to a side.  That should be my choice. Especially on my own land or other private land where the owner approves of such a choice.

Not sure why you would resent the state, maybe you should resent the majority of the people that want AR's in place.  That is why its in place right now, majority according to every single study, poll, and finding want to see the 1.5's walk, grow and mature.    Why should the majority of hunters hunt the way you think is right?  Let them go let them grow.

[ejp419]

Well, we been hunting by the "3 inch law" for 100 years. How about you open up ur mind a bit and try a different approach? I have never heard anyone say that they think New York is the best place to hunt. Ya know why? Cause we been hunting by the "3 inch rule" for 100 years...

[JCTheGC]

Well, we been hunting by the "3 inch law" for 100 years. How about you open up ur mind a bit and try a different approach? I have never heard anyone say that they think New York is the best place to hunt. Ya know why? Cause we been hunting by the "3 inch rule" for 100 years...

I have to disagree with you there. I do think NY is the best place to hunt, and its one of the only places I do hunt.  However, that law is slowly changing, more and more AR's every year based on the concerns and passion by those who would like to see a better structured deer herd and care about the betterment of  the future of hunting in NY.  For those that say they are "meat" hunters, why shoot a spike / 1.5 when you can only improve your meat quantities by having the opportunity to shoot larger deer?  Lets say AR's are put into place in a WMU you hunt, one year you might not be able to harvest that buck (if 1.5's are all your seeing? If so, then that one year shoot a doe perhaps?) that following year those bucks have more meat. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ej. And jc......how many other areas of the state do you hunt. I am just curious what you are using as a basis for this unhealthy deer herd we have?

[ejp419]

I hunt 4S. It is an unhealthy herd when the doe to buck ratio is about 12-1 and that's before hunting season. I don't think AR's should be statewide, but in my area there's a need for less does and more bucks.

[WNYBuckHunter]

How are ARs going to help doe to buck ratio?

[ejp419]

By letting bucks grow up kinda makes sense there will be more of them, no? By letting bucks grow up and shooting more does seems to me will balance the ratio a bit.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So ARs dont help the buck/doe ratio. Exactly my point. The only thing that will help that is to kill does.

[gjs4]

Potentially the inability for a random hunter to shoot a random deer (i.e. young buck) would shoot a doe instead ...

My favorite part of ARs is hunters would take more time to identify their target....

The $10 dmp deal was a nail in the coffin of a balanced sex ratio imo

[Doc]

My favorite part of ARs is hunters would take more time to identify their target....

To me that is one of the few good arguments for AR.

[gjs4]

I swear- if NY would just copy Ohios syllabus we could all be happy- youth, crossbows, long seasons, big bucks & little ones....

When people make the argument on not knowing what theyre shooting at being a problem with ARs I shiver ..... I back Ars, but do nto believe theyre the "fix" we need a restructure of deer managment and hunting in the state....just clean slate it

[nyantler]

My favorite part of ARs is hunters would take more time to identify their target....

To me that is one of the few good arguments for AR.

Yes definitely one of the good ones...

[nyantler]

take the money spent on guns clothing ammunition bows arrows a license and the gas to go hunting and buy meat.

That would make too much sense.. it's easier to use the meat hunting argument to stop any sensible management ideas..

[WNYBuckHunter]

My favorite part of ARs is hunters would take more time to identify their target....

Thats the ONLY good reason for ARs, IMO. I was actually just talking to someone about that yesterday.

[ejp419]

So how do AR's not help the buck to doe ratio oh wise one?

[nyantler]

I have passed up many spikes, forkhorns, six points and eight points. Perhaps more than some of you young fellers have even SEEN in the woods. I've been hunting deer since 1965.

I have had a couple 14-15 inch eight points in front of me and chose to shoot the mature doe BESIDE them. I like to kill adult does..Never ate a doe I didn't like.

Still, I resent the state mandating that I should not shoot a buck unless it has 3 or 4 points to a side.  That should be my choice. Especially on my own land or other private land where the owner approves of such a choice.

Lets just say for a minute that the State knows what it's doing (I know its a long shot) and they have decided that AR's are needed to help out herd structure in certain WMU's.. you can resent the mandate all you want... conservation laws and regs should not be made based on what you want to do, but rather what is needed... and although you own your land... you don't own the animals on it and don't have the right to make your own choices for what you think might be right for the wildlife in that area... the only right you have is to an opinion... which you can voice to the folks that make the rules. That's how it works whether anyone likes it or not...

[WNYBuckHunter]

So how do AR's not help the buck to doe ratio oh wise one?

Shooting older bucks doesnt get rid of does, smartass.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I swear- if NY would just copy Ohios syllabus we could all be happy- youth, crossbows, long seasons, big bucks & little ones....

I agree with this 110%, but we all know how often NY does things right.  ;D

[nyantler]

So ARs dont help the buck/doe ratio. Exactly my point. The only thing that will help that is to kill does.

AR's need doe kill in order to balance ratios... without AR's and only dmp's the process is much slower and will never get ratios very close... in the first couple years when buck kill is usually at its lowest during AR's there will be a huge gap closing in buck:doe ratio .. after a few years buck kill begins to rise again... but by then ratios are much better balanced and adjustments can be made to the number of dmps issued... of course the challenge is that all this will play out diffently in different areas... making it tough to do on a state wide level... and most likely could not be done in most of the Adirondack Park.