Sniper's on letchworth state park????

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well we took our normal trip to letchworth this year as we have done for the last 18 years. Well this trip seemed a little strange right from the jump...NO DEER!!! Well to make a long story short. we have huted that park forever and last year they opened up the safety zone at the castile end to late bow with does only. Not a problem as there were loads of deer there. This year they open the my morris end to bow.Still not a bad thing as lots of deer there. The problem i have is that i now hear that the state hired sharp shooters to come on the park the last 2 winters and take over 1000 whitetails EACH winter. I dont know 100% if its true but it came from a good source. Well i think if they wanted deer taken out they would not have antler restrictions for one thing. They should allow more hunters and/or more tag's. They charge us $500 a week to rent cabins,They charge for hunting tag's and we all pay ny state taxes. Why not let nys hunters take the deer??? On top of that how many hundreds damadage permits do they give to the local farmers. I talked to alot of guys down there this year that say this is their last year for hunting the park. So there goes money the state will be missing out on again. Go figure!!! Do any of you guy's have any knowledge on this issue. I know they knocked the pi$$ out of the herd. Some parties had 10 guy's hunting with 2 cabins rented and went home with 2 fawns and another group of 4 saw 2 deer in a three day trip.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Four Season Whitetails

[bkln]

Not sure about your situation in WNY and these sharpshooters, Over here in the Hudson Valley when the local University cleans its property from deer with sharpshooters the entire county knows about it, so I would suspect more locals would know what's going on, ask local state trooper. All I can say that for the last 10 hunting days I saw 2 does, my money is still on that warm weather, they just ain't moving.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Theres an easy way to find out if its true or not, just contact the DEC Region 8 office and ask rather than listen to rumors. They would have been involved in such a thing and can give you information about it or say if it even happened in the first place. Id be willing to bet you are hearing nothing more than a rumor. 1000 deer for 2 years in a row? Im highly doubtful, but if they took that many, then there was a serious over population problem. I spend quite a bit of time in the park camping and hiking each year, and have seen good numbers of deer there, but never anything like youd expect to see in an area that had to have 2000 deer in 2 years removed. The total deer take for 2010 in unit 8M (where Letchworth is) was 2400 deer, which means if that rumor is true, they shot almost half as many deer just in the park as hunters did in the whole WMU, which covers over 300 square miles. Doesnt add up IMO.

[SteveNY]

Where do you sign up for the deer sniper job?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I dont know..wny..They say they were counting 300 to 900 deer on any givin day..in a 3 miles radious!!! I will tell you one thing for a FACT the park has taken a beating when it comes to deer numbers in the last few years.. Myself i did well down there on sightings but it was no where like its been in the past and it was for sure no where near the road!!!

[132 eight pointer]

I saw herds of deer last winter in the fields just outside of the MT . Morris end of the park.Although most hunters agree the numbers are down I would be astonished if anyone was hired to shoot deer by the state.Overhunted possibly .

Edited November 26, 2011 by 132 eight pointer

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That pic looks like one of our fields.. We have 125 acre farm outside the safety zone on the mt morris end. Those deer are no more either as they opened up that end of the park to bow hunters. That in turn pushed more on our farm. This info came from the front office at the park when they were turning thier cabin keys in. The guy did not deny it was done and all he said was something had to be done because they were killing all the saplings and new growth on the park. He was very surprized that we heard about it so i do believe it went on and i dont think the dec or anyone in the click will admit to what went on. I dont have a problem with the deer removal per say but i think hunters should have got the tags or open a longer late bow season on the park or something.You have to remember they make their own rules on the park so there could have been a shoot givin the green light by someone in charge on the park.Rather than sharp shooters give them to hunters that pay taxes,rent cabins,buy tags and in turn support ny state!!!

[132 eight pointer]

I agree,If there was a deer shoot I know a few people that will be unhappy including myself.That picture is from that end of the park by the RGE station.

[Rev Ev]

wouldnt something like have to be in a deer management plan submitted to the public for review before a state agency could do that?

[Nomad]

When they used sharp shooters in Durand Eastman Park years ago it was not very effective, cost wise or numbers wise. They had to hire off duty cops to both shoot and close down all roads to make sure no people were there even though the park was "closed".

Then they used bait piles and after a little shooting the deer stayed away from them, the deer caught on fast.

I can see keeping it on the down low, as Durand had its share of protesters, but then I 'm not sure it could be done without hearings, permits and other public record type things.

Can't wait to hear for sure.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Larry302

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yeah we are up the road about a mile or so from where the pic was taken!! Rev i am not sure on that one because the park makes its own rules for what i was to believe. As meaning no rifles in a rifle mgmt area and number of hunters per side and such. I guess i am not really complaining for myself as we are loaded on the farm which boarders the safety zone but i do hunt the bottom alot and have noticed the drop in numbers but i say if you are going to take them out let ny state hunters do the job!!

[Rev Ev]

if they were serious about lowering deer numbers, and they were indeed to use sharp shooters at whatever their cost is, they should open up the cabins in the park to hunters who would be helping them to lower those numbers for free. they should also expand the dates we are allowed to hunt there.

I spent a week there when they opened the special archery doe only permits. I was bothered every day i was there by tourists. It really made me rethink trying it again next year.

[bkln]

Where do you sign up for the deer sniper job?

I was thinking the same thing, you get paid to do what? LOL I also agree they should allowed local hunting clubs to take care of "the problem", they pay taxes...

[arrow nocker]

I was thinking the same thing, you get paid to do what? LOL I also agree they should allowed local hunting clubs to take care of "the problem", they pay taxes...

I think after just blasting away deer in spotlights or over bait piles would get dissapointing after about the first 10.Definatly not like hunting i am sure.I would get sick to my stomach knowing that one of those could be a monster buck next season.I like killing deer but i couldn't do it unless i was getting some pretty pennies.

[ncountry]

I do not know about the numbers but I found this from previous years.....

http://thelcn.com/20...etchworth-deer/

I hate the idea of non hunters culling OUR deer herd..

I agree both ends of the park may have (or had in the case of the north end) an excess of deer but this is definitely not the case throughout the rest of the park.I have hiked and hunted deep in the Adirondacks . A mature forest without logging becomes just like the park, big trees with no brush or undergrowth.

Edited November 26, 2011 by ncountry

[CTHunter]

They did this in CT the last couple years less than 1/4 mile from my house. Estimates were only 50 to 70 deer taken each year.This is a higher populated area of houses with a large park in the middle. The results were more deer in my neighborhood as they were chased out of the only wooded area around. Now we only saw small fork horns and spikes before and now we are seeing larger bucks in the 8, 10 and 12 point range.

Hard to say if there was a relation between the two. Still have the same 7 or 8 does in the neighborhood, maybe the bucks are having to come out of the woods to find the does.

[132 eight pointer]

I do not know about the numbers but I found this from previous years.....

http://thelcn.com/20...etchworth-deer/

I hate the idea of non hunters culling OUR deer herd..

I agree both ends of the park may have (or had in the case of the north end) an excess of deer but this is definitely not the case throughout the rest of the park.I have hiked and hunted deep in the Adirondacks . A mature forest without logging becomes just like the park, big trees with no brush or undergrowth.

I didn't know that happened.That was in the South end which was closed to hunting for a long time.I still don't agree with using "sharpshooters".

[WNYBuckHunter]

They are saying that the counts came up with roughly 100 deer per square mile in certain areas of the park. If hunting alone isnt getting things under control, then what are they supposed to do? If they let in more hunters, everyone is going to complain that there are too many, or that its become too dangerous, etc. Whats wrong with them using sharp shooters and who is to say those guys arent deer hunters to begin with? They put the meat into the same venison donation program that many of us utilize as well, whats wrong with that? Its not like they are digging trenches and stacking deer in them like cord wood.

Maybe you guys would rather them introduce deer contraception in the park? You know, eventually do away with hunting there so they dont have to hear from little old ladies complaining about blood soaked dirt?

[bkln]

... old ladies complaining about blood soaked dirt?...

come again....????

[ncountry]

They are saying that the counts came up with roughly 100 deer per square mile in certain areas of the park. If hunting alone isnt getting things under control, then what are they supposed to do? If they let in more hunters, everyone is going to complain that there are too many, or that its become too dangerous, etc. Whats wrong with them using sharp shooters and who is to say those guys arent deer hunters to begin with? They put the meat into the same venison donation program that many of us utilize as well, whats wrong with that? Its not like they are digging trenches and stacking deer in them like cord wood.

Maybe you guys would rather them introduce deer contraception in the park? You know, eventually do away with hunting there so they dont have to hear from little old ladies complaining about blood soaked dirt?

I assume you have hunted the park ? If you have you know that the figure of 100 deer /square mile can only hold in the safety zones ,where hunting has never been allowed. 4 of us have been hunting the park for years.The deer numbers have been going down every year.We just returned from our yearly 10 day trip. We saw maybe 30 -40 deer total (2 of us sit from 6:00am-noon every am) Many days went by without a deer being seen.People would be knocking down the doors to hunt a special late season time(when most of the tourists are gone).Especially if they made it an earn your buck program.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

WNY, You kind of take me back by your comments on this subject. You do relize this is a state park and this is a place that some hunt because they have no private land to hunt.When the state charges $500 a week to stay and hunt and there are about 50 cabins full every week of the whole hunting season. You do the math. That is not counting the stores and restaurants in that area that get money from hunters. We hunt and we hunt hard,We earn the deer we get but some cant go to the extreams that we do.After almost 20 years of letchworth hunting,Its going downhill fast. You cant tell me an extended bow or late muzzle season would not be better than freakin sharpshooters. The state parks are closing left and right and we spoke to a worker down at the park this year that said half the staff had been laid off this year. 50 cabins at $500 a week by 8 or 10 weeks of hunting will go a long ways towards paying some bills. I can see that those numbers will be dropping after this year!!

[Rev Ev]

@ WNY: More hunters is not the problem as I exprienced it, it was the time allowed to hunt the special zone was short, a few weeks after normal opener. The other was the disregard of hunters by tourists who would actively interfere with my hunt. If they allowed more time, it would certainly be profitable. Between three of us this year we took four deer. More time to hunt, could mean more deer.

@NCountry: I agree with a late season minus tourists.

[WNYBuckHunter]

come again....????

Read the article posted.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I assume you have hunted the park ? If you have you know that the figure of 100 deer /square mile can only hold in the safety zones ,where hunting has never been allowed. 4 of us have been hunting the park for years.The deer numbers have been going down every year.We just returned from our yearly 10 day trip. We saw maybe 30 -40 deer total (2 of us sit from 6:00am-noon every am) Many days went by without a deer being seen.People would be knocking down the doors to hunt a special late season time(when most of the tourists are gone).Especially if they made it an earn your buck program.

Yes, I have hunted the park, as well as camped hiked, etc in it all my life. I know where the deer congregate in the exclusion zones. That is where they said they did the sharp shooting/culling. Sorry, but 100 deer per square mile is a recipe for bad things to happen. Disease, starvation and other things come to mind. Like I said, they could do something like other areas have been looking into, and introduce contraception to the area. Id rather have some deer culled by use of sharp shooters and have the meat made use of rather than birth control for deer. Wouldnt you?

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNY, You kind of take me back by your comments on this subject. You do relize this is a state park and this is a place that some hunt because they have no private land to hunt.When the state charges $500 a week to stay and hunt and there are about 50 cabins full every week of the whole hunting season. You do the math. That is not counting the stores and restaurants in that area that get money from hunters. We hunt and we hunt hard,We earn the deer we get but some cant go to the extreams that we do.After almost 20 years of letchworth hunting,Its going downhill fast. You cant tell me an extended bow or late muzzle season would not be better than freakin sharpshooters. The state parks are closing left and right and we spoke to a worker down at the park this year that said half the staff had been laid off this year. 50 cabins at $500 a week by 8 or 10 weeks of hunting will go a long ways towards paying some bills. I can see that those numbers will be dropping after this year!!

With all due respect, if the hunters arent getting the job done now, another week or two isnt going to do much. Regardless, they cannot allow hunting outside of the regular seasons and guidelines unless the DEC changes the season dates for that area. The park cannot do that on its own. All they can do is further restrict the laws already on the books (make their own rules). Letchworth is not its own entity, it is managed by the NYS parks dept, and an extra few thousand dollars is not going to be more than a drop in the bucket when it comes to that budget gap.