Man poaches prized buck at Minnesota deer farm

[WNYBuckHunter]

What a amazing deer and it is remarkable to me how he was able to get such a stud at 3 years old. Such a shame all that time and energy wasted because of one stupid kid. Sounds like it took over 15 years to get to this point, I hope he still has a chance at recovering from this!

Heres a 2 year old farm raised deer for ya

And some 3 1/2s

[BizCT]

thats one dumb kid thats all i can say. bred and raised bucks re not trophys no matter how big the rack is. in my opinion if that deer was the honest world record deer its really no record at all being a raised deer. i would hope the boone n crocket scoring reflects for raised deer otherwise its just stupid. deer are wild when there raised and fed special food n so on of course they may reach world record class. a true wild deer is the only thing you can shoot and consider it a trophy. i dont know to many guys that mount the heads of cows they kill thats all killing raised deer is to me.

I agree with you 100%! Its a shame that soon you will probably be able to shoot any type of animal within a fence, its stupid. To me, its the same as growing a monster trout or bass in your pool for a couple of years, then charging someone to come over and fish your pool, catch the fish, then brag about it..........PATHETIC!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Guys, any buck raised on a farm or shot on a preserve cannot be entered into B&C. There are records for deer hunted in preserves, but those records are kept by SCI. That deer wasnt even close to world record size when it comes to SCI and or deer farm standards.

[Steve7]

Dam I mean I will jump through hoops and over fire for a nice buck but it would all be legal. To go and do that is just plain stupid. WOW lol 2 funny but I feel bad for the farmer/owner of the deer that was his prize possesion and I am sure made him mad money...

Come on Will I shot a Polar bear thier is a whole heard on the other side of the hill. Lets get them!

Just too funny... watch out for the polar bears !!!

[Doc]

I agree with you 100%! Its a shame that soon you will probably be able to shoot any type of animal within a fence, its stupid. To me, its the same as growing a monster trout or bass in your pool for a couple of years, then charging someone to come over and fish your pool, catch the fish, then brag about it..........PATHETIC!

It does kind of cheapen the rarity and challenge of legitimately getting a "decent" buck when there are people out there that are raising (manufacturing) these kinds of grotesque monsters. Yes, I realize that the records keeping organizations have restrictions of fair chase requirements to try and maintain the validity of true honest hunted animals. Still it seems that these versions of "Frankendeer" have a negative reflection on the natural quality of true wild animals. Obviously there is a market for the semen of these animals, and eventually it would seem that the end result would be for some guy with deep pockets to harvest a genetically manufactured deer, and place the mounted head in his trophy room with any story attached to it that he wanted. I probably have less quarrel with the guy who raises and develops these genetic monsters than some of the end users of his product. It just seems a shame that there really is a market for this kind of thing and that anyone who calls themselves a hunter would engage in this strange practice of creating your trophy.

I don't know, I probably am in the minority with that attitude, but I am still a believer in hunting the species the way they have developed in nature. I have no interest in buying a manufactured trophy for my wall or for any other purpose. To me that cheapens the whole activity of hunting.

[stubbz]

Guys, any buck raised on a farm or shot on a preserve cannot be entered into B&C. There are records for deer hunted in preserves, but those records are kept by SCI. That deer wasnt even close to world record size when it comes to SCI and or deer farm standards.

Good to know thanks for clarifying.

I agree with ya Doc, i think it puts visions in our minds that we may see deer of those calibers while out hunting and as most of you already know thats just not going to happen. with real hunting if you get a huge buck thats even close to something like those pix its a once and a lifetime opportunity usually. not saying people cant get huge deer more than once but its a rare thing to get depending on where you hunt.

[BizCT]

It does kind of cheapen the rarity and challenge of legitimately getting a "decent" buck when there are people out there that are raising (manufacturing) these kinds of grotesque monsters. Yes, I realize that the records keeping organizations have restrictions of fair chase requirements to try and maintain the validity of true honest hunted animals. Still it seems that these versions of "Frankendeer" have a negative reflection on the natural quality of true wild animals. Obviously there is a market for the semen of these animals, and eventually it would seem that the end result would be for some guy with deep pockets to harvest a genetically manufactured deer, and place the mounted head in his trophy room with any story attached to it that he wanted. I probably have less quarrel with the guy who raises and develops these genetic monsters than some of the end users of his product. It just seems a shame that there really is a market for this kind of thing and that anyone who calls themselves a hunter would engage in this strange practice of creating your trophy.

I don't know, I probably am in the minority with that attitude, but I am still a believer in hunting the species the way they have developed in nature. I have no interest in buying a manufactured trophy for my wall or for any other purpose. To me that cheapens the whole activity of hunting.

Agreed.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It does kind of cheapen the rarity and challenge of legitimately getting a "decent" buck when there are people out there that are raising (manufacturing) these kinds of grotesque monsters. Yes, I realize that the records keeping organizations have restrictions of fair chase requirements to try and maintain the validity of true honest hunted animals. Still it seems that these versions of "Frankendeer" have a negative reflection on the natural quality of true wild animals. Obviously there is a market for the semen of these animals, and eventually it would seem that the end result would be for some guy with deep pockets to harvest a genetically manufactured deer, and place the mounted head in his trophy room with any story attached to it that he wanted. I probably have less quarrel with the guy who raises and develops these genetic monsters than some of the end users of his product. It just seems a shame that there really is a market for this kind of thing and that anyone who calls themselves a hunter would engage in this strange practice of creating your trophy.

I don't know, I probably am in the minority with that attitude, but I am still a believer in hunting the species the way they have developed in nature. I have no interest in buying a manufactured trophy for my wall or for any other purpose. To me that cheapens the whole activity of hunting.

I think it gives a false sense of what can be expected to occur naturally.

[grampsretired3]

It does kind of cheapen the rarity and challenge of legitimately getting a "decent" buck when there are people out there that are raising (manufacturing) these kinds of grotesque monsters. Yes, I realize that the records keeping organizations have restrictions of fair chase requirements to try and maintain the validity of true honest hunted animals. Still it seems that these versions of "Frankendeer" have a negative reflection on the natural quality of true wild animals. Obviously there is a market for the semen of these animals, and eventually it would seem that the end result would be for some guy with deep pockets to harvest a genetically manufactured deer, and place the mounted head in his trophy room with any story attached to it that he wanted. I probably have less quarrel with the guy who raises and develops these genetic monsters than some of the end users of his product. It just seems a shame that there really is a market for this kind of thing and that anyone who calls themselves a hunter would engage in this strange practice of creating your trophy.

I don't know, I probably am in the minority with that attitude, but I am still a believer in hunting the species the way they have developed in nature. I have no interest in buying a manufactured trophy for my wall or for any other purpose. To me that cheapens the whole activity of hunting.

x2

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Must be workin for alot of people!! pa alone has over 1000 deer farms and is a multi million dollar a year business. ny has about 115 farms and is very lucrative. $100.000 dollars a year is very lucrative in many eye's. Again..Lack of knowledge when it comes to feeding pen raised deer.They eat the same grain and minerals that they get in the wild. The reason they are so big is nothing but genitics and age. Some of us might see deer like that if there was a little less killing of the little bucks but i guess we will have to wait for the state of ny to finish the job they started. Then we will see what ny can produce in the wild!!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Gotta call BS on that post. I am not convinced whitetails in the wild have the same diet as pen raised.....not many wild whitetails have the perfect levels of all the nutrients they ne.....medicines.....no stress from predators.....oh yeah...and vet care. Come on

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yes they get care if needed as any livestock would. Yes they have low level of stress for the most part. The feed they get on my farm is the same feed most deer get in the wild. They get minerals mixed in the feed because ny has low levels in the soil. Whole and cracked corn.soybeans and soybean meal. 22% Alpalpa,clover hay and genitics is what grows antlers.You can give a deer all the best feed it could ever eat and without genitics you will never have a trophy. Give a great bloodlined deer lower end feed and you will still get a great trophy. Give bucks in the wild some time to get some age and they will take care of their own stress levels and alot of ny state has plenty of food except mabey the adk's. We have seen some of the bucks taken in ny so we know there is good genitics in most parts of the state. They just need some time to shine!!!

[sampotter]

I agree Culver. Its also amazing what a little intensive genetic selection can do. Look at dogs.

[cwhite]

All I can say is...he is a business man and had best been insured...for the "kid" isn't going to be giving up tens of thousands of dollars.....and I'm not sure of the laws to date........ but unless it is until 21...he's over eighteen and the parents may be in the clear..... if not....he really s-----d them royally...

I'm pretty certain this kid will be paying for some time. I'm guessing he will be indicted by a grand jury for felony theft charges. That is exactly what he is, a thief. Not a poacher or over zealous hunter. He broke into a business and stole merchandise. Restitution will most likely be a part of his plea agreement. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in jail where thieves belong.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes they get care if needed as any livestock would. Yes they have low level of stress for the most part. The feed they get on my farm is the same feed most deer get in the wild. They get minerals mixed in the feed because ny has low levels in the soil. Whole and cracked corn.soybeans and soybean meal. 22% Alpalpa,clover hay and genitics is what grows antlers.You can give a deer all the best feed it could ever eat and without genitics you will never have a trophy. Give a great bloodlined deer lower end feed and you will still get a great trophy. Give bucks in the wild some time to get some age and they will take care of their own stress levels and alot of ny state has plenty of food except mabey the adk's. We have seen some of the bucks taken in ny so we know there is good genitics in most parts of the state. They just need some time to shine!!!

Good genetics are all fine and good, but you are NOT going to have 2 1/2 year olds in the wild looking like the one I posted above. Like Culver said already, wild deer do not live in a low to no stress environment, they dont get anywhere near the diet that farm deer do (mineral supplements and other things). We have great genetics in the area I hunt, all the farm grown fresh foods the deer can eat, and 4 1/2 year olds start getting close to the 2 1/2 I posted above. Its not just about genetics and age, there are many other factors involved. Even wild deer in Iowa, Illinois and other "big buck" states dont compare to their farm raised counterparts.

[Doc]

I have seen videos of genetically engineered deer that have grotesque antlers of unbelievable size. And yet in all the years of records keeping throughout history, no one has ever shot any wild deer that even came close to these manufactured freaks. I've got to believe that there is a lot more than mere age that has gotten these genetic creations to the ridiculous stage of antler development that they have concocted on these deer farms. In fact, in extreme advanced age of deer, the antlers even begin to regress.

[tughillhunter]

Its agriculture. plain and simple. Some people raise angus cows, some people raise dairy cattle. Some people have horses, some people have sheep. Some people have elk, some people have red stags. Its business. As far as food, what about the deer that hang out on the farms? Corn, soy beans, alfalfa, hay fields. Not much of a difference. Im a supporter of nysdefa. Think its a great thing.

[Lever action]

Don't care how big a buck they create on these deer farms they will never get any of my money. I prefer to hunt wild deer on my own property.In fact ,I would shoot a wild spikehorn before I would shoot a farm raised deer.Don't care how big the horns are.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I would like to know what you think the (other stuff)is.. I see the pics that were posted and i know of the farm.In todays deer world those bucks are on the small size. You went to these peoples farm,Did you ask them about genitics or what they feed their deer?? Im sure they would have told you. Believe it or not these deer are made by years of breeding certin lines and certin looks and then crossing those genes with other line or look. You guys amaze me of all the info that you THINK you know when most have never been to a farm or have ever seen how it is done. I breed my own deer,I feed my own deer and i raise my own deer. There is no special powder that makes them grow and like it or not it is 90% genitics that grow my 200 inch deer every year.As far as adult wild bucks, stress might have a little to do with their growth but i would say very little.Good food,great blood runnin through their veins and a little age,there is no way they cant grow big..Even in ny state!!!

[arrow nocker]

30 yrs ago people werent so addicted to the antlers as it is now.Of course a 10 or 14 pt was sure bragging rights but people didn't focus on it like now.Now its like a status quoe in the hunters would.If you can't bag a big buck you not the best hunter.The antler addiction is driven into young hunters nowadays.IMHO.its who can bag the biggest buck now.people pay so much money for big bucks so they can show of the head and brag about it.Where has the hunt gone to in hunting?what happend to men being proud of hard work dedication before they spend thousands of dollars to get satisfaction out of something that they had to pay for?If i hunted state land with a low deer population and shot a 6 pt on the ground with my bow that would be an earned kill.If i posted a pic of it and the story no one would care.Why?because it wasn;t a monster.Thats all everyone cares about now.how big is rack is.Not the hunt.All these TV shows and magazines and propaganda are pushing it more and more.I dont know but to me it isn't about the size of something i hang on the wall.Its about the hard work and using what little i had to make it work that satisfies me.And untill some of these new hunters realize this they wont be real hunters.Just an addict to something that in the end wont mean a thing.And will probably be put up for sale or put in the attic when they die from their remaining family members.Memorys of a good hunt wont ever die.the joy of a good hunt stays in you for ever.

[dave6x6]

I think your bucks are awesome four seasons. Sounds like an enjoyable and rewarding line of work your in. I wish you continued success.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thanks dave,I know alot of people have mixed feelings about deer behind fences. My plan is to raise breeder bucks,sell bred does,sell semen and hopefully start a scent herd.There is no better a feeling than to interact with 200 and 300 inch whitetail bucks and sitting on a 5 gallon bucke in the doe and fawn pens giving treats and scratchin ears!! Whitetails are just another livestock in the farming world.I cant think of a better animal i would rather than spend time with all day every day.

[wooly]

While I do agree with Dave that it sounds like a dream position many of s would like to be in, I think it's pretty safe to say I can see how a deer farmer would be all for AR's, QDM, and anything else that has to do with big horns. Heck, I'm pretty sure I may even change my meat hunter ways handling all them big bucks all the time.

Also gotta agree with some other points here. I don't know or really even care what they eat in captivity, but I think you have to agree that whatever it is, they sure don't have to work to find it, especially in crucial times when they're looking to store reserves and recover from the rut. Top notch food sources are scarce in the wild, or at least expend a lot of effort to get to them.

[Doc]

There is no special powder that makes them grow and like it or not it is 90% genitics that grow my 200 inch deer every year.As far as adult wild bucks, stress might have a little to do with their growth but i would say very little.Good food,great blood runnin through their veins and a little age,there is no way they cant grow big..Even in ny state!!!

There is no comparison between the favorable conditions that farm raised animals have vs. the conditions that wild critters endure. Yes, the chemical composition of their foods is basically the same, but the difference is that those elements are provided for the domestic animals in recommended quantities and mixtures where critters in the wild foraging for themselves get what they can, when they can, and if they can. Domestic stock has no winter lean period of browsing on twigs and other non nutritional food resources.

Absolutely genetic engineering is important in producing large antlers, and that is genetic engineering that never happens, and never will happen, in the wild. And while it's true that there is no "special powder" the fact that domestic deer benefit from being fed a regular, guaranteed, nutritious, diet in a year around fashion along with providing necessary minerals most likely makes any comparisons between wild deer and domestic deer not quite a true apples-to-apples comparison. The differences in the lifestyle between domestic and wild deer is huge as would be the case of any wild animal versus any domestic farm raised animals.

And yes, I agree that NYS has the capability of growing some heavy horned deer. We have seen them. But if you are implying that what is being cranked out in some of these "freak farms" is something that can occur in a natural state, I guess I can't really agree with that regardless of how old we let them get.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I would like to know what you think the (other stuff)is.. I see the pics that were posted and i know of the farm.In todays deer world those bucks are on the small size. You went to these peoples farm,Did you ask them about genitics or what they feed their deer?? Im sure they would have told you. Believe it or not these deer are made by years of breeding certin lines and certin looks and then crossing those genes with other line or look. You guys amaze me of all the info that you THINK you know when most have never been to a farm or have ever seen how it is done. I breed my own deer,I feed my own deer and i raise my own deer. There is no special powder that makes them grow and like it or not it is 90% genitics that grow my 200 inch deer every year.As far as adult wild bucks, stress might have a little to do with their growth but i would say very little.Good food,great blood runnin through their veins and a little age,there is no way they cant grow big..Even in ny state!!!

I didnt ask specifically what they feed them, but they said it was a mix of corn, oats, alfalfa and SUPPLIMENTS. Please, show me a 2 year old wild buck that looks like the one I pictured. Stress has alot to do with antler growth and overall health of any animal. Im not saying genetics doesnt play a part in it, but there are a hell of alot more factors than just that and age. Put one of your deer with great genetics in a wild environment with predators, droughts, flooding, and all of the other stresses that go along with it and see what kind of antlers it grows. It would probably look like most of the other big deer you see in NY.

You seem to forget that I hunt land thats in an area with some of the best farm land in the state. We have more corn, beans, alfalfa, wheat, oats and other crops than you can shake a stick at growing in the area. Plenty of water all year round and lots of swamps and thick brush for them to hide out in, good genetics (look at my trail cam pics) and you will still NEVER see a 2 year old that looks anything like a farm raised 2 year old. Why? Not food, not water, not bad genetics. Hmmmmm...

I know you raise deer, but you are leaving way too many parts of the equation out of the equation. Its like saying everyone with the bloodlines of Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to look like him with just the right food.

BTW, I would absolutely love to be in a position like yours and work with deer every day.