Posted Property

[ATbuckhunter]

Just now, ATbuckhunter said:

"Trespass on Land

New York law provides that a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to such person by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner."

They are different, but neither can not be given unless its proven that proper notice was given. Just because a ticket was given doesn't really mean anything. I think we all know that cops can give BS tickets

 

[land 1]

ok again thats right, but again thats nys encon law,  NYS pl 140.05 only requires that you knowingly enters or remains unlawfully,,,, Let me put two cases and see if u understand, #1 a guy is on piece of property say next to state land there are no posted signs , owner finds him the guy says i had no idea im sorry i was on state land i thought and leaves,,,,, #2 a guy is on piece of property surrounded by other private property again no signs and sees the landowner who tries to contact him but the guy takes off running, when the guy is located by landowner or police , its found that he has no permission to be on any property in the area, and has parked  his truck in manner to conceal his entry to private land, In #2 he has shown knowledge that he knew that he was not to be on the property and thus PL trespass .......I will totally agree threre is a much stronger case if a prior warning was given

Edited June 20, 2021 by land 1
spelling

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, land 1 said:

ok again thats right, but again thats nys encon law,  NYS pl 140.05 only requires that you knowingly enters or remains unlawfully,,,, Let me put two cases and see if u understand, #1 a guy is on piece of property say next to state land there are no posted signs , owner finds him the guy says i had no idea im sorry i was on state land i thought and leaves,,,,, #2 a guy is on piece of property surrounded by other private property again no signs and sees the landowner who tries to contact him but the guy takes of running, when the guy is located by landowner or police , its found that he has no permission to be on any property in the area, and has parked  his truck in manner to conceal his entry to private land, In #2 he has shown knowledge that he knew that he was not to be on the property and thus PL trespass .......I will totally agree threre is a much stronger case if a prior warning was given

So number 2 is a different story. He had to trespass over POSTED property just to get to the land that is not posted. He will be charged and arrested for trespass. However, he may not be able to be charged for trespass for trespassing on the property that isn't posted. Its very easy to say you didn't know that you had trespassed on an additional property, but cant argue with the properly posted land. That's also a very extreme situation to where they had to trespass just to trespass another property 

[land 1]

ok I said no signs either case i never said anything was posted.Ugh  Ur right the law is black and white lol, and just fyi criminal trespass is never used for just trespassing on land,,, theres has to be at least a fence that is placed to keep people out and yes criminal trespass   can be charged with out warning as it deals with dwellings , homes and fenced in areas as  can trespass in correct incident, but don't believe me,,,,

[ncountry]

1 hour ago, ATbuckhunter said:

There is no legal way to be charged when a property is not properly posted. I've asked my brother who is an attorney as well as different DEC agents. Its possible different if you have to walk up someone's driveway to access land, but as long as its vacant land and not posted, it would be thrown out in court in minutes. 

I'm sure you are correct if one got a lawyer.. If not, it seems to stick.

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, land 1 said:

ok I said no signs either case i never said anything was posted.Ugh  Ur right the law is black and white lol, and just fyi criminal trespass is never used for just trespassing on land,,, theres has to be at least a fence that is placed to keep people out and yes criminal trespass   can be charged with out warning as it deals with dwellings , homes and fenced in areas as  can trespass in correct incident, but don't believe me,,,,

I apologize I read what you wrote earlier wrong. Its likely neither can be charged with trespass. Its actually easier to charge trespass with occupied land vs vacant land. I've watched DEC agents and State troopers (on different occasions) tell landowners they can not press charges against people hunting their property because the property was not properly posted at the time. All my experience, as well as the knowledge of my brother has told me that you can not be charged. FYI this is a loophole in the trespass laws which in fact makes it very grey instead of black and white. 

[ATbuckhunter]

8 minutes ago, ncountry said:

I'm sure you are correct if one got a lawyer.. If not, it seems to stick.

No lawyer needed. All you have to say is its unposted and you didn't realize where the property boundaries were. Above it shows that it is actually assumed you had the privilege to be on the land unless posted or informed otherwise. 

[luberhill]

3 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Absolutely not wrong at all. This has not been my experience as well as not in the schooling my brother got in law school. I was told point blank many times by DEC officers (in multiple regions), Attorneys as well as property surveyors that you absolutely cannot be charged with criminal trespass. They can ticket you all they like, it will be thrown out in court if fought. Unless theres more to this specific case, if they were caught on the property for the first time, then the ticket will not hold. 

Well you’ve been told wrong , sorry ,, I spoke to both DEC and State Police

and the village judge !

If you don’t own the property and do t have written permission you are in fact breaking the law and trespassing ..

I’m sure they could hire an attorney but it would be cheaper paying the fine .

 No it sure what DEC agent told you this but I was dealing with the top dog in region 7

And the sergeant at the NYS police sub station 

Quite sure they know the law.

Your brother may want to brush up on the law

Edited June 20, 2021 by luberhill

[luberhill]

12 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

No lawyer needed. All you have to say is its unposted and you didn't realize where the property boundaries were. Above it shows that it is actually assumed you had the privilege to be on the land unless posted or informed otherwise. 

Wrong again ... the law clearly states IF you do t own the land or have written permission you are trespassing ..

[ATbuckhunter]

5 minutes ago, luberhill said:

Well you’ve been told wrong , sorry ,, I spoke to both DEC and State Police

and the village judge !

If you don’t own the property and do t have written permission you are in fact breaking the law and trespassing ..

I’m sure they could hire an attorney but it would be cheaper paying the fine .

 No it sure what DEC agent told you this but I was dealing with the top dog in region 7

And the sergeant at the NYS police sub station in Layfayette 

Quite sure they know the law.

The judge was a Town / Village justice where the property was and the one the trespassers would go in front of .

Your brother may want to brush up on the law

Again Ive seen it on different occasions from both DEC and state troopers that they said they could not charge people because the property was not posted. Then went into how to post their property so the incident does not occur again. The DEC agent even went further to explain that its a bad ticket to give and its very likely the ticket would be thrown out in court. So its been proven in person, by people who are in the business of marking land, and people in law. At this point I would doubt the knowledge of the Sargent. Who has more education in the matter...the police Sargent or my brother who graduated from one of the better law school in the country.....ill let you figure that one out. This is of course assuming you understood him correctly, which at this point i'm not sure of.

You're bringing up something different. Breaking the law and proving someone knowingly broke the laws are two very different things. Yes they are breaking the law, but you have to prove it. The burden of proof is on the shoulders of the cops. 

I'm done talking about this subject with you. I've shown written proof that you can not be charged with any sort of trespass in the situations I gave. All you gave is unprovable anecdotal evidence that im not even sure you understood. You've shown nothing tangible. If you want to argue whether or not the law is being broken, that's a different subject. While the two are related, we are talking about a ticket that will stand up in court. 1 judges decision also does not mean all that much either as that can also be over thrown on appeal. 

[ATbuckhunter]

32 minutes ago, luberhill said:

Wrong again ... the law clearly states IF you do t own the land or have written permission you are trespassing ..

Written permission is not needed, so you're in fact wrong. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by ATbuckhunter

[land 1]

4 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Written permission is not needed, so you're in fact wrong. Dude you're telling me that im saying the law is black and white, but that's literally what you're doing here. 

written permission not needed, and you do know that lubberhill made last 2 post right? Also every lawyer thats been arrested knew the law and wasnt breaking it or so they said...just saying lol

[SportsmanNH]

30 minutes ago, luberhill said:

Wrong again ... the law clearly states IF you do t own the land or have written permission you are trespassing ..

Im sorry but , where did you read that in the law ?  I couldn't find anything except what laws ATB was posting. I find no law which says anything about what you and Land 1 claim to be law. If there there are no posted signs , no fences or gates violated , no landowner strictly telling you beforehand that you are not allowed on the property , there is no case or ticket. Any Game Warden who writes these tickets,  prosecutor or Judge who has any idea what the black and white written law says would throw those worthless ticket out . They should never even reach the Judge and waste the courts time . Please post the law that you claim exists . Scroll down to NY Trespassing law pertaining to hunting.  Someone tried to pull this stunt on me in Maine a few years back when I was in the woods hunting. Guess who actually got arrested. 

https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/land-use-laws/select-state-laws-on-hunting-and-trespassing.html

Edited June 20, 2021 by SportsmanNH

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, land 1 said:

written permission not needed, and you do know that lubberhill made last 2 post right? Also every lawyer thats been arrested knew the law and wasnt breaking it or so they said...just saying lol

 I actually mixed your names up

[luberhill]

1 hour ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Written permission is not needed, so you're in fact wrong. Dude you're telling me that im saying the law is black and white, but that's literally what you're doing here. 

Dude I’m telling you I just dealt with this issue 2 weeks ago !

Im confused , you started this post not even having knowledge of proper posting and asking questions, now you seem to be an expert with your brother ...

Again, 2 weeks ago I had pictures , identified the trespassers , contacted Region 7 commander and NYS police sergeant .

DEC laws were more stringent than NYS Police ..

They said they could charge said persons with criminal trespass , they entered land they know they didn’t own , left bottles and garbage .

The town judge is who they would go in front of .

He said they would be fined for CRIMINAL trespass under NYS Dec law.

I chose not to have them arrested this time ..

But again , no grey area , it was cut and dry what the charges would be !

Now for sure as with any charge you can hire an attorney but the fact remains , they would have been charged IF I wanted to pursue 

Edited June 20, 2021 by luberhill

[land 1]

2 minutes ago, SportsmanNH said:

Im sorry but , where did you read that in the law ?  I couldn't find anything except what laws ATB was posting. I find no law which says anything about what you and Land 1 claim to be law. If there there are no posted signs , no fences or gates violated , no landowner strictly telling you beforehand that you are not allowed on the property , there is no case or ticket. Any Game Warden who writes these tickets,  prosecutor or Judge who has any idea what the black and white written law says would throw those worthless ticket out . They should never even reach the Judge and waste the courts time . Please post the law that you claim exists . Scroll down to NY Trespassing law pertaining to hunting.  Someone tried to pull this stunt on me in Maine a few years back when I was in the woods hunting. Guess who actually got arrested. 

https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/land-use-laws/select-state-laws-on-hunting-and-trespassing.html

did you really look up NYS Penal section 140.05 pretty easy to find

[ATbuckhunter]

1 minute ago, luberhill said:

Dude I’m telling you I just dealt with this issue 2 weeks ago !

Im confused , you started this post not even having knowledge of proper posting and asking questions, now you seem to be an expert with your brother ...

Again, 2 weeks ago I had pictures , identified the trespassers , contacted Region 7 commander and NYS police sergeant and town judge .

DEC laws were more stringent than NYS Police ..

They said they could charge said persons with criminal trespass , they entered land they know they didn’t own , left bottles and garbage .

The town judge is who they would go in front of .

He said they would be fined for CRIMINAL trespass under NYS Dec law.

I chose not to have them arrested this time ..

But again , no grey area , it was cut and dry what the charges would be !

Now for sure as with any charge you can hire an attorney but the fact remains , they would have been charged IF I wanted to pursue 

One can be unsure at one point and then research to find the answer out. So you're saying they told you they can charge with trespass of unposted land?

[luberhill]

Just now, ATbuckhunter said:

One can be unsure at one point and then research to find the answer out. So you're saying they told you they can charge with trespass of unposted land?

100 percent ! No question ... DEC and NY State police and the judge !

[luberhill]

8 minutes ago, SportsmanNH said:

Im sorry but , where did you read that in the law ?  I couldn't find anything except what laws ATB was posting. I find no law which says anything about what you and Land 1 claim to be law. If there there are no posted signs , no fences or gates violated , no landowner strictly telling you beforehand that you are not allowed on the property , there is no case or ticket. Any Game Warden who writes these tickets,  prosecutor or Judge who has any idea what the black and white written law says would throw those worthless ticket out . They should never even reach the Judge and waste the courts time . Please post the law that you claim exists . Scroll down to NY Trespassing law pertaining to hunting.  Someone tried to pull this stunt on me in Maine a few years back when I was in the woods hunting. Guess who actually got arrested. 

https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/land-use-laws/select-state-laws-on-hunting-and-trespassing.html

This law ?

[land 1]

ok luberhill never ever heard of criminal trespass under envirometal conservation law and just tried looking it up you got a section just under nys penal law and criminal trespass for land requires at the very least an enclosed fence

[luberhill]

Just now, land 1 said:

ok luberhill never ever heard of criminal trespass under envirometal conservation law and just tried looking it up you got a section just under nys penal law and criminal trespass for land requires at the very least an enclosed fence

The criminal trespass was because they entered private property , they knew they didn’t own , they destroyed the property by leaving trash etc

I’m quite sure the region 7 commander for DEC knows the law

[ATbuckhunter]

4 minutes ago, luberhill said:

100 percent ! No question ... DEC and NY State police and the judge !

AGAIN it being illegal and holding up in court are two very very different things. It can EASILY be thrown out. You can try to have them charged but guaranteed it will not hold up in court. Its simply not possible to charge criminal trespass when property is unposted UNLESS you have told the individuals to not come on your property. I'm tired of this.

"Trespass on Land

New York law provides that a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to such person by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner."

Edited June 20, 2021 by ATbuckhunter

[luberhill]

2 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

AGAIN it being illegal and holding up in court are two very very different things. It can EASILY be thrown out. You can try to have them charged but guaranteed it will not hold up in court. 

"Trespass on Land

New York law provides that a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to such person by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner."

Guaranteed huh?  
You don’t know this judge very well ...

Edited June 20, 2021 by luberhill

[land 1]

ok it was just a trespass charge    if just on land, again as i explained earlier two totally different charges....please a quick google search will show u this

[luberhill]

Just now, luberhill said:

Guaranteed huh?