Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[haf2hunt]

iam for it i have hunted in pa before antler restrictions and naver saw any great bucks in the last 5 years ive hunted there ive shot 3 nice bucks 2 8pt 1 scored 125 and a 12pt that was very nice all the states that i travel 2 i have always seen or shot nice deer including a13pt that scored 168 it 2 bad you have to travel to find quality deer when we could have them in or own state dont get me wrong i know there here but not many

[woodsdweller]

$362.00 ( 2 ADULTS, 1,16 YEAROLD AND A 14 YEAROLD.)

this is the amount of money it cost me this year to lisence our family. we are a single income family whos passion is the outdoors. we dont live on venison, but enjoy it.

  have you all lost your minds, what has happened to the enjoyment of hunting. how many of you big buck hunters have ever sat in a deer bind with one of your kids or any kid sitting next to you watching the excitment build in them as any deer walks into view. the last thing they are thinking about is counting points, all the built up excitment from months for scouting and shooting is comming down to just a few secconds and the concentration of placing a clean shot to harvest the deer. what are we teaching our youth, if you want to have a TROPHY  size limmit then have at it your on your dime. But stop trying to tell me how to spend mine!!!!!!

we hunted hard all season to see 1 buck and sat in a rain/sleet storm for 3hr for my daughter to shoot her first buck, this was a priceless afternoon

[Buckstopshere]

Woodsdweller: You are right. Thanks for sharing a priceless memory and a great photo.

[TheHunter]

In my area where AR is in effect a 16 and 14 year old hunter is exempt from AR.  And since I am the one paying my hunting fee's as well as my families, 15 and 16, I have every right to push for AR.  Expecially since it works.  Regardless, majority support and want AR's in the AR zones. 

[Doc]

In my area where AR is in effect a 16 and 14 year old hunter is exempt from AR.  And since I am the one paying my hunting fee's as well as my families, 15 and 16, I have every right to push for AR.  Expecially since it works.  Regardless, majority support and want AR's in the AR zones.

Yeah, and how about the 17 year old first timer. Or the 22 year old first timer. Or the 30 year old first timer. Or the 75 year old guy just looking for that one last buck. Or how about the hard working stiff that is lucky if he can squeeze a Sunday off here and there for hunting. Do you people ever even think about those hunters? Sure you have a right to push for whatever you want. You don't have to think about whatever hardship your trophyism might cause others. Not your problem ...... right? 

[TheHunter]

Wow... Doc, Trophyism?  Its called management, QDM.  Quality Deer Management, better the herd, age the herd.  This way that 22 year old, that 17 year old that 75 year old doesnt JUST see spikes.  Its called hunting for a reason, if that 22 or 17 or 75 year old can't put the time in, then that is NOT my problem.  All you old timers need to get away from the its brown its down mentality.  Remember the 3 inch antler rule has been in effect for ever, go bitch about that so you can shoot those too.  What a joke.

[JCTheGC]

Woodsdweller, congrats, we need more women and young hunters.  I think that is a priceless moment.  However, she could have had this same priceless moment under AR.  And more then likely you and your children could have had more opportunities if AR was in place in your county.  1 Buck seen all season?  In 3H and 3J I see bucks actually fighting, I never ever saw that before in my 15 years of hunting.  There are 5's 6's 7's 8's in addition to the fawns and 1.5's running around now because of AR.  Now that 1.5, or most of them, are protected because of AR, and now that buck will be bigger, smarter, next year.  And he may give the same first time hunter an opportunity to be shot.  I want my children who are 9 and 10 to have an opportunity to see bigger bucks, and not the same old spikes and 4's running around like the past 10 + years.  I paid my childs lifetime license, and in fact he comes with me every year hunting even though he cain't shoot.  4 more years or so and he too can shoot at the same bucks I'm seeing running around, and he understands a deer is not something you get EVERY YEAR, a nice mature buck is not something guaranteed and you dont get them every year.  But when you do, wow, its a great achievement, especially when its a more mature buck and not one thats been in this world for a year or so like 75% of the bucks taken in NYS because of the lack of AR.

[Larry]

Hunter sorry Thehunter if AR's are so good then why are most of the Biggest Buck coming out of non AR WMU's. hasn't the AR WMU's been around for about 5 years.

[JCTheGC]

Where are you talking about? Some boondocks place where no one hunts with zero pressure and the deer can grow old and big...  Understand this, a 2.5+ is a mature deer where AR's are in place, and the age structure is improving... Before it was 1.5's, now the 1.5's can survive rather then getting shot out, again, 75+% of all MALE deer taken in NYS were 1.5's.  Those 1.5+'s that are now more mature, smarter, older will age the herd, the end result is a healthier more mature deer herd.  The bonus to that are some larger racks and more meat.

[Fairgame]

Larry you cant compare your hunting zone with the southern catskill zone where ARs were implemented. 

The hunting preasure in these AR areas is extremely high compared to western NY. There is also alot more farmland in western NY.  The soil in western NY is also better where you hunt.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  Noone is telling you that you need them in your area, and you cant tell me that they arent needed or werent needed in our area cause you dont know.  For some to be so against something that doesnt affect them in any way is crazy. 

[SteveB]

Wow... Doc, Trophyism?  Its called management, QDM.  Quality Deer Management, better the herd, age the herd.  This way that 22 year old, that 17 year old that 75 year old doesnt JUST see spikes.  Its called hunting for a reason, if that 22 or 17 or 75 year old can't put the time in, then that is NOT my problem.  All you old timers need to get away from the its brown its down mentality.  Remember the 3 inch antler rule has been in effect for ever, go bitch about that so you can shoot those too.  What a joke.

The 3 inch rule was a way to identify in the field buck vs doe to control doe harvest where needed - nothing to do with age. just as points have little to do with age either. And there is nothing anywhere in any true QDM program that uses AR points based programs. So don't call AR QDM unless you can take pride in being wrong.

[Fairgame]

AR is a part of QDM. "Quality deer management." 

[SteveB]

Understand this, a 2.5+ is a mature deer where AR's are in place, and the age structure is improving.

A little older only - in no way is any buck mature at 2.5.

If the age structure is in fact improving with any statistical

significance, what is the % increase in mature (4.5 or older) bucks now vs pre AR?

Actual kill numbers would be of great interest as well - both total buck and mature.

These real numbers would provide real support  for AR having a significant effect in those areas.

[SteveB]

AR is a part of QDM. "Quality deer management."

Show me where QDM uses points based AR as a part of the program - never seen it in my readings.

Particularly interested in the value for QDM in shooting young 1.5 and 2.5 6 point bucks.

[JCTheGC]

SteveB I never said a 2.5 is a Mature deer.  I said where AR's are in place a 2.5 was a mature deer, now the age structure is improving.  Ideally, aging the bucks past 2.5+  :  So, again, AR's are helping the deer mature, grow older, smarter and bigger.  Where AR's are in place, there are very very very few "Mature" deer. 

[JCTheGC]

AR is a part of QDM. "Quality deer management."

Show me where QDM uses points based AR as a part of the program - never seen it in my readings.

Particularly interested in the value for QDM in shooting young 1.5 and 2.5 6 point bucks.

AR allows younger less mature deer mature and grow. Shooting out the 1.5's is not going to mature the herd.

http://www.hvqdma.com/biological-needs-for-antler-restriction/

[Larry]

I’m not talking about the boondocks try Monroe, Livingston and Allegany counties and if you want to see pressure try Stuben. 

[Larry]

AR’s in this state are a DEAD issue you would more likely see the AR’s we have go away before you see any new ones. The state will do nothing to jeopardize license sales any further.  One more thing those who claim they let small bucks walk most of you don’t. You can see it in the buck take the percentage of 1 ½ year old in the take has stay almost the same for the last 20 years there doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for AR’s if there were you would see a reduction in the buck take coming out of the 1 ½ year olds in the take.    :'(

[Core_Lokt]

I generally like the idea, but I still believe we should give it time.  Let's see the quality of deer that are reported in the next, say, 5 years.  If the take (size, score, etc) increases, then it only proves my theory that it is working....but it is definatly a work in progress......

Core_Lokt

[SteveB]

AR allows younger less mature deer mature and grow. Shooting out the 1.5's is not going to mature the herd.

6 and 8 pt 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5 are young immature deer. AR simply targets them them while letting <6 pts walk.

One more thing those who claim they let small bucks walk most of you don’t. You can see it in the buck take the percentage of 1 ½ year old in the take has stay almost the same for the last 20 years there doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for AR’s if there were you would see a reduction in the buck take coming out of the 1 ½ year olds in the take

Makes you wonder with supposed claim of  60% plus supporting AR who kills all these 1.5 bucks!!!!!!!!!!!  I am anti mandatory AR, but have not shot a 1.5 and 2.5 buck in 8 years - from choice and not lack of opportunity. Either there are far less then 60% supporting it or there are a LOT of hypocrites. Those in the AR areas that are shooting bucks 3.5 or less are clearly demonstrating there actual lack of concern for improving the age structure - the main arguement for passing <6 pts while they shoot bucks solely because of the points on their head rather then their age.

[Larry]

that would make it 10 years it seem there is little return now so if you go from spikes to a 6pt so what or you may get 8 or maybe a 10 once in a while. look at so of the pic's on this site most are not from the AR WMU's

[SteveB]

I'll ask again - what are the buck kill numbers, both total and by age, for the last 7 years in the AR units? These numbers will give hard facts on what AR is doing or not doing.

[Larry]

just to let you all know I do practice QDM. I just don't think it should be froced on anyone

[Fairgame]

Just about everyone talking all this crap.  And I really believe its crap, has no idea what it was like to what it is today.  If you dont hunt these areas you dont know what it was like.  Its that easy.  The only proof I need is from Experience in where I hunt.  I'm glad we have it and I'm sure your glad you dont.  Why would you want it to end in an area that doesnt even affect you? 

[Larry]

here is a graph