Doc

I have two pins that I use for hunting. A 20 yard and a 30 yard. In addition to those I have a 40 yard and a 50 yard set of pins that I mess around with on the practice range just for fun.

This bowhunter has come down out of the trees a couple of decades ago because of a vertigo thing. So I have been forced to hunt in the eyeball to eyeball fashion for quite a few years. I have put in a lot of years with both methods, and have developed quite a list of pros and cons. First of all, let me make a general statement that I do believe that hunting on the ground is a handicapped method of hunting. No, it's not that I was never picked off while in treestands, but deer are more conditioned and in tune with danger at the ground level. There are also some occasional benefits from elevated scent paths, although not as big a deal as you might think. Your view of incoming deer is generally enhanced by being elevated. That is kind of a big advantage. On the other side of the coin, my deer hunting has become a whole lot more exciting since I came out of the trees. The challenges of dealing with the senses of deer on the same level, can really be a crazy thing to experience. I have been in situations where I could have reached out and touched deer. I have had deer just on the opposite side of the tree I was standing behind. That's some pretty exciting stuff, that I never was able to experience up in the trees. Although I seldom use this advantage, I do have available the element of mobility with deer that refuse to travel within shooting range. You can quickly shift into still-hunting mode if that becomes necessary and seems advisable. I have not had a lot of experience with the pop-up variety, tent-style, ground blinds, but I can see some pretty nifty advantages. I would theorize that they might contain the free flow of scent to some extent. Also, they can likely make inclement weather a whole lot more enjoyable, keeping you on the hunt for a longer period of time. Also, they can allow you a bit more freedom of movement without risking being spotted. The choices of up in the trees vs. down on the ground is not always as simple as you might think. There are the things that I have mentioned and many more considerations that you will have to apply to make the decision. Probably the most important thing to keep in mind is that both hunting styles are widely used, and both are successful. So in the end, the decision is up to you.

You know, when you consider all the screwed up aspects of this latest DEC fiasco, it really is frightening that the future of game management is in the hands of this band of keystone cops. Now here Culver had pointed out yet one more dumb aspect of the plan. This doe-only screw-up will simply shunt bowhunters into areas that don't have this dire overpopulation problem that they are peddling.....Exactly the opposite thing that they are trying to do.

From what the DEC is peddling, it sounds like the NYS deer are doing just fine without an advocacy group speaking on their behalf ..... lol. I think I'll pass on this one.

They really are two entirely different kinds of hunts and I also like each one for their uniqueness. For me the bowhunting is a solitary kind of hunting that requires some heavy scouting and patterning of a relatively undisturbed deer herd with hopefully there still being a roughly repetitive feeding and bedding routine and some traditional rutting patterns that are again unbroken by excessive hunter activity. The bow is a short range weapon, so that the shooting distances are limited and requires a bit more solace and lack of interference. Gun season gets to be a more social event where friends and family gather for all the strategy B.S. sessions and the time when hunting partners go on joint excursions for stand locating and construction. And there are the pre-season target sessions for those that waited to the last minute to zero in those guns. And then there is the magic of opening day when the woods explodes with activity and all the shooting starts and that super anticipation that the orange army will push that deer in your expanded circle of gun range capability. It is quite exciting and all that stuff has its appeal too. Each form of hunting has its different styles of challenges and their separate kinds of fun and their separate kinds of requirements. And each style has certain aspects that interfere with the other. They were always kept separate because they are separate in all aspects and ways that they are conducted. I like them both, in their proper (and separate) times. Too bad the DEC doesn't have a clue about those differences or even care that there are differences.

My guess is that if you checked them out, almost all of them would have exit holes and the lead bullets would be harmlessly stuffed into some nearby tree or in the dirt which is where the material came from in the first place. A coyote isn't a very big animal. and most varmint calibers have no problems making it completely through their relatively small bodies even when bone is hit.

That's one of the great things about this site. There is a lot of opinions and once in awhile some facts written here. Some of it is useful and factual, some is not. You do have to sift through it all and weigh the value. But you are absolutely right. There is a lot of good info that can be gathered here. And we all learn from each other including learning from those that might be new to hunting and who offer different perspectives and ask questions that make us think and discuss things that we may not have considered before. So we owe you a thank-you too.

It's not about being resistant to change. It is about the ignorant and biased way in which it is being done. I would have thought that would be plain by now after 35 pages.

I'm still looking for the mythical unicorn.

Ha-ha..... It wouldn't surprise be to find that in the next deer management plan.

That one is easy. My Bother-in-law from Canada brought two of his work buddies down to hunt deer one year. real nice guys .... BUT.... We went up to my target range just to see that al the shotguns came through their trip ok. The older guy stepped up to shoot and ripped off 5 shots just as quick as he could pull the trigger. I gave my B.I.L a look like, "what the hell just happened", and before I could catch myself, those exact words came out .... lol. Apparently, he was raised in some province where they hunt with dogs, and that is the way they shoot at their deer. That was pretty scary stuff, and we assured him that we don't use dogs down here and the first shot is all we really worry about. eventually, we got him slowed down a bit. So then we all started taking turns, then went up to see what kinds of damage we had each done to our targets. We got half way to our targets and all of a sudden there was a loud BANG right behind us. We turned around and found the younger guy fiddling with his shotgun. He accidently touched off the trigger while the rest of us were on our way up to check the targets. So I turned around and pointed to the far hill across the valley and said that is where you guys will be hunting. My B.I.L. and I hunted our usual spots on the hill behind the house. And even at that, I wasn't exactly feeling safe being even that close to those two.

There is a good chance that the DEC is in the process of doing PETA's work for them. If hunters are not leaving the ranks fast enough, the DEC seems determined to speed the process along.

A lot of my trail cams are not even set in my deer hunting areas. I like to get pictures of other critters too. Ha-ha-ha.... kind of like setting out a trapline to see what you can catch. Foxes, coyotes, coons, mink, muskrats, etc. are what I use my trail cams for. And I am still hoping to get some pics of a bear. In the past I have gotten so many deer pictures and then found that just because I can get pics of them, doesn't mean that I will ever see them again. Heck it doesn't even mean that the are still in the area or ever will be again. This year, I have not needed cameras for deer scouting purposes. This tropical rain forest that the woods is turning into leaves some very clear mudded up deer trails to tell the story.

I am estimating that my normal draw-hold is right around 5 seconds as I steady the pin down on the target (deer). That I my practice session draw-sight-shoot cycle duration. So anything longer than that disrupts my perfect shooting cycle. When do I start losing form or start shaking? I guess I have never timed that, but there certainly does have to be some limiting time.

I understand what you are saying, and believe me, I know that I get entirely too excited about these things when you consider how many years I actually have left to bowhunt. I know that I am staring at the final couple years of my participation. It probably is a bit silly for me to worry that much about what bow season is turning into. But unfortunately, I do get worried that the future of an activity that has meant so much to me over all these decades is being eroded piece by piece into something that I don't even recognize anymore. It's hard to watch all the gains that bowhunters fought so hard to establish being dismantled by some forced, whacked-out, DEC ideas of a weird half-bred version of a bow/gun season that basically destroys so much of what bowhunting is all about. I guess it's just human nature to try to preserve something that has always been the focus of so much of my life. I am not likely to change, so I keep on fighting, even if it really is a losing fight.....lol.

Pretty darn consistent poll. They don't usually come out all that unified.

Having had a small stroke (no lasting effects), I try to compromise between pure walking, and riding. I live at the base of what I have nick-named "Cardiac hill". We did lose a neighbor to a heart attack on that hill, so it is aptly named. So unless I am still-hunting my way up the hill, I take the ATV. I drive to just under the ridge of the hill and park and then start walking quite a ways back in. In the pre-dawn hours, that keeps me from getting all sweated up, and the machine is silent for at least a half hour while I quietly go up over the lip of the hill and back to my stand up on the level hilltop. The last couple of years, I have used the ATV for taking the deer off the hill when possible. During gun season, we usually have a bit of snow on the ground, and that makes the hill a bit treacherous for ATVs. It can and has turned into a bobsled. So when there is too much snow, I just take a very slow, post daybreak still-hunt up the killer hill and across the top. I don't have any problem with the use of ATVs, even for the youngsters as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's hunt.

Oh come on. Where's your sense of fun. Don't you like the carnival atmosphere where you get all dressed up in your blaze orange finery wave at all the guys as they stumble past your stand? Look, your getting too hung up on all the skill and challenge of actually studying the habits of an un-stressed herd and trying to pattern the natural movements of deer and trying to figure out how to set up a harvest through outsmarting the critter. Let all the other hunters do the work for you. It will be like one huge all-day drive where you can test out your shooting skills at the panicked deer dashing by. Gee, doesn't that sound like fun?

Probably shouldn't be patting too many coyotes on the head over being such good friends for the bird population until they check with the turkey population out there ....lol. Yeah, the kitty population has been long known to be the scourge of the bird populations. But it isn't only the ones that have gone wild. I suspect that the domestic tabby that always shows up at home each day gets his share of birds as well. Pet owners who think it is great to let their pets run free, seldom think of the efficiency of these exceptional predators.

So now an already faulty harvest reporting system will be made even more unreliable as bowhunters turn in all kinds of doe take successes that never really happened, just to satisfy the DEC's secret bowhunter harvest goals.

Unfortunately, that is not the way the plan is actually laid out. When the bowhunters are unable to make the secret goals of the DEC, they will take that opportunity to insert a muzzleloader season into bow season. That is likely the goal since about decade ago, they tried to do that. This likely is their backdoor route to get what they wanted. Apparently we are not supposed to be smart enough to spot that.

Eddie- It's not whether I can get a doe or even a buck that has me upset. It is simply the stupidity of the change, and the fact that the DEC seems to be going out of their way to single out bowhunters with the responsibility of maintaining deer population management (or else!). Their current attitudes toward bowhunters indicates that they really have a problem with bowhunters occupying some premium season time and intend to change that situation, which of course cannot bode well for anyone who enjoys the change of pace that bowhunting provides. I too have a pile of days to fill the freezer, but still the shoddy treatment and strong-arm tactics being used on bowhunters is pretty irritating to me. And so, I am not ok with it.

So, how do they justify whining about the overpopulation crisis and then lowering the number of permits? That really doesn't make sense. The words don't match the actions.

I was trying to find last year's permit allocations for these WMUs and was unsuccessful. I suspected this might be the case but was unable to get ahold of the data. They have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, the new regulations are not assumptions. They are indeed fact, and the bowhunters and muzzleloaders are being singled out as the sole population control with some nasty threats being leveled by the DEC if they fail to do the impossible. Those are public declarations without any need for assumptions. They are documented facts and actual regulation changes that anybody can take as a reason for bitching or a reason to applaud. By the way, something that occurred to me just now, is that the only ones that should be upset by all this is the bowhunters only, because if the muzzleloaders hold back on doe harvests, they will be rewarded with a brand new early muzzleloader season. It a no-lose situation for them, and they should be applauding this situation. Sorry, a bit of a side-thought that just popped into my mind.