Doc

I suspect we all have a goal of getting a deer when we walk out the door to go deer hunting. I'm not sure how far most of us carry that, but yeah, I have a goal of collecting some venison. Others may have a goal of getting a buck. Still others may have a minimum size criteria in mind and set that as a "goal". I guess I do believe that everyone has something in mind as to what constitutes a measure of success for them. Enjoying the hunt is a given, but everything we do has a purpose(s) and some way to know if we met that purpose. I don't know anyone who sits down and writes out the goals or makes a huge official deal out of their goal-setting, but I'm pretty sure that we all do it in one form or another.

Ok, that kind of makes sense. I would have thought they would have ended the regular process based on a number rather than a date so people could still stop down to the town clerk or whatever throughout the season and get one over the counter until the WMU allotment was depleted (which I understand never happens). But I guess they decided to go a different route with additional lotteries and such. There may be some logic in that that I am not seeing.

These discussions always remind me of a co-worker from back in my "working days". The guy was absolutely the most deadly shot I have ever witnessed. He simply never missed a coffee-cup sized group at 60 yards ...... ever. He had all the latest equipment and all the gizmos and go-fasters and his shooting was phenomenal, to say the least. And yet in one season, he came into work with tales of woe about 5 different animals that he shot at, wounded and failed to recover. We never did figure out what the problem was other than his shots were consistently way longer than what others would ever think of taking. Now, I have no idea what was really going on, but his archery range scores and results were definitely not lacking, and yet his hunting results were horrible to the point of being disgusting. This kind of thing went on for the few years that I knew him, and he did eventually manage to get a couple of deer. But every year there were also these wounding losses that were very hard to explain. Was there something about the shots he was taking? Poor blood-trailing skills? Was it a case of buck fever when he got live deer in front of him? I have no idea, but I just know that his archery range results were not translating to hunting results. I don't know, make of it what you will. My take on it was that he was trying to use a short range weapon for long range hunting. I'll never know for sure what the problem was, but this one guy accounted for a whole lot of wounding losses all by himself. As far as I know he is probably still wounding deer, perhaps he has even surpassed his record of 5 lost deer in one season ..... lol. I do know that he didn't want to hear anything about limiting his shot distances because he was absolutely convinced that what he could do on the archery range on targets, he could do in the woods on deer. So anyway, this guy instilled a definite bias in me that is hard to shake whenever this discussion comes up.

Anybody have any idea why there is a cut-off point on DMP sales? It doesn't make any sense to me. I would think that DMPs should be available at any time of any applicable season until the quota is depleted.

Eventually there should be nighttime tracks, and nocturnal use of the area may stay that way for a while, maybe even the entire apple drop season. Apparently they didn't like that level of disturbance too much.

I have no problems with people asking questions about the law. I don't care how many places on the net the answer may appear. It sure is better than having them running around breaking laws that they were unaware of. Also, for every one of those kinds of threads, there are usually a whole bunch of people who chime in apparently with the same misunderstandings and questions. So, if you don't know ..... ask. That being said, I would recommend that any legal questions be sent off as an e-mail to the DEC so that you will get a written reply that can be stashed away in case there is a controversy with the reply later on. Sometimes even the officials get confused or disagree with each other on some of the more tricky and obscure laws.

I wouldn't mind having people asking for help when they are confused, or had some form of black-out in the Bowhunting safety Course when that subject was covered. I would rather see an inquiry here than to just have the shooter throw up their hands in frustration. There are times when some helping hand might be in order. Of course a good part of that helping hand would be more useful and successful if we were standing right there and witnessed the action. So much of successful retrieval depends on what is done and observed right at the scene of the impact and the initial run. Perhaps it would be useful to create a thread that is a list of observations that would be useful for the shooter to have taken note of before asking for assistance here, and turn that into a "sticky". For example, many newbies seem to have a nervous black-out at release and cannot explain the location of the hit, hair color, blood color, the reactions of the deer, blood evidence at the scene and on the arrow, etc., etc., just a basic primer of what they should have been taught in the bow course. If they can supply some of that detail it would help to give advice as to what their next-steps should be. I have seen a few of these threads in the past that resulted in a recovery and one of those that I recall was from a hunter who had given up.

I call it a special deer that has more meaning to me than others. I am all for getting rid of that term, "trophy" when it comes to deer. They are not some wood and brass award. And, if I were king, I would dump the stupid scoring systems too. Whoa! .... Don't get me started .... lol.

Thank God for the NYS Bowhunters. They are all that bowhunters have to save and maintain bowseasons. There sure are a lot of people out there that are jealously trying to shoehorn their way in.

I'm a scope guy. Sure I have killed a lot of deer with the bead or "V" sights, but eventually there came a time when the old eyes simply would not handle open sights anymore. But even if I had the eyes of a 20 year old, I would still opt for a scope. They help me pick out the individual hair on the deer that I want to hit. Well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.....lol.

Another statement spoken as if it were proven fact, but is most likely a steaming pile of B.S. You have absolutely no credible idea about the attitudes or hunting goals of those of us who have a problem with these bullying tactics by the DEC against bowhunters.

Oh, and by the way, for all those that may be laughing at the misfortune of those bowhunters in the chosen few WMUs, I would like to bring to your attention a little quote that I found in the latest issue of NYON: "DECs deer managers at this point have not ruled out expanding the antlerless-only regulation to other units if needed." So while many have contented themselves thinking, "too bad for them, but not my problem", think again. The DEC is taking on the NYS bowhunters and it all maybe coming soon to a neighborhood near you. first the special antlerless only bow season and then followed y the threat of a early muzzleloader season crammed in. I'm thinking that the few WMUs are simply a test case to see what kind of resistance they get. The end-game is that early muzzleloader season that the DEC has been pushing for since 2004. This is all just their devious path to shoving that into bow season.

Beware of critters. Mice, chipmunks, and squirrels love that kind of equipment and can munch up seats, store hickory nuts around moving parts, build nests in places where combustible material shouldn't be, chew through hoses and wire insulation, and even chew holes in that nice new tarp you put over it....lol. I would suggest that wherever you put it, generous amounts of mouse and rat poison should be put around too.

I love a couple of inches of snow when hunting. It's great for muffling still-hunting sounds. It makes deer visible from a long distance away. It tells all kinds of stories about deer patterns and activities and even identifies where the deer are hanging out. And then too as already mentioned, it makes blood-trailing pretty darn easy. Now all we have to do is to figure out how to get it in the woods without it landing on the roads (and my driveway).

Well, I'm not afraid to say it ...... Blood and guts are disgusting , and since they came out with dirt-cheap latex gloves of insignificant size and weight, and I found out about them, my pack is never without them.

The link is still good. I just access it a minute ago. But let me respond to your assertion that because the non-hunters are not openly hostile towards us that the animal rights people are not having an effect in that segment of the public. I know it is hard to assess in any sort of quantitative way, but I do believe that these people are having a cultural impact that is challenging recruitment efforts of new hunters and the maintenance of existing hunters. Even among hunters, you frequently catch a hint of how their zeal for the hunt is softening because of the perceptions of killing the harmless innocent little animals. These animal rights wackos don't have to be marching around you with signs and chants to be having an impact on hunting. If hunters are tired of being regarded as low-brow red-necks that evolution left behind and drop out because of negative perceptions, or kids have decided that hunting is not really the coolest thing to engage in and opt out of the hunting scene, we are losing the PR battle. And the antis are winning and hunting is losing. The antis are well financed and are taking a direct and well funded public campaign to society with a very consistent message. We on the other hand can't seem to even organize ourselves let alone sell any message at all to John Q. Public. It basically has become a one sided discussion with no one publicly speaking for us. Not even the DEC. I know there are all kinds of reasons for the diminishing hunter numbers and the failure of recruitment efforts, but do not ignore the fact that the antis are succeeding in re-molding societal attitudes and how hunting is publicly regarded.

Unfortunately, these animal rights wackos are having a long-term effect. We make light of their antics, but as this article points outs out they seem to be winning the hearts and minds of society. Their well-financed campaigns are perhaps having their intended effects, even on hunters.

It is interesting that today we have the DEC setting up what appears to be a panicked situation from their inability to control deer numbers in select WMU's. It could be that we are seeing the early evidence of hunting not being up to the task of controlling deer numbers. Unprecedented and frantic regulations are being put in place for the first time that I can remember, as the DEC admits that some WMUs are no longer able to control deer numbers simply by issuing more permits.

And maybe after she finally has success, she will be frustrated because it wasn't a buck, or it wasn't a big enough buck. It really sounds like a case of too much expectation. There is a lot going on around us that tries to make hunting seem easy. Some of that is attributed to TV. I started at a time when it was expected that you would not get anything. That made the dry years seem much more tolerable. Maybe instead of putting her in the "next best" stand, you will have to let her put some time in the "best" stand. Somebody suggested some drives with her as the stander. That sounded like a pretty good idea to me too. But beware, like I said, when the expectations challenge reality, some times token successes may not be adequate. Be prepared for that.

I know the attitude today is that as long as hunting lasts as long as I do, the hell with anyone that comes after me. Unfortunately I can't adopt that attitude. Hunting, trapping and fishing has dominated my life, and forms quite a bit of what I am all about. I really do have an interest in what happens to hunting beyond me. And one of the first parts of solving problems is to admit that the problems exist. I think that was Lisenbee's purpose for writing the article. And that is what caught my attention and interest in it.

The answer is in Moog's last sentence. "Its up to the hunter to decide what level of risk they are comfortable with.". Nobody can give you a set number of yards. There are so many variables and conditions including individual mindsets and how concerned the bowhunter is about wounding losses. What is more important than a finite number is simply the recognition that deer usually are not shot at in target range conditions and do not always cooperate as nicely as pinned down paper targets while you stand alongside of a measured out stake. And also an acknowledgment that what you can do on a target range is not necessarily going to be what you can do in the woods on a deer. Also one has to be aware that accuracy and unexpected difficulties increase geometrically as the shooting distance increases. That's just the nature of a bow and arrow.

The weather forecast will be changing daily right up until opening day, and perhaps even during that day. I'm just worrying about how the weather affects my squirrel hunting for those first couple of doe-only weeks. The only forecast that I trust is when I stick my head outside in the morning.

Ha-ha .... The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ...right? I have to say that where ever I find myself hunting, it is the best place in the world. I have been saying for a long time that a lot of hunters today are measuring their hunting enjoyment and success in inches of antler. And that's fine for them, but for me there is a whole lot more to my hunting than simply what an accident of nature happens to stick on a deer's head. Yeah, even I appreciate antlers, but that is not how I rate my deer hunting or how I rate where I happen to be hunting. Oh well, to each his own, I guess....lol.

During gun season, our house is turned into the hunting camp. All the comforts of home ..... lol. Friends and relatives gather at the house with a few spending the night. Early in the morning, it's out the basement door and up the killer-hill we go. Not as many as there was a decade or two ago. We don't last forever, and the new ones are not coming on-board like they used to.

Yeah, that's one of the times I get to go down to the Town Hall and get to chat with our town leaders and see what they are up to, and get all caught up on the town gossip and rumors ..... lol.