Doc

The part of the story that is not being told here is how does the DEC use the info gleaned from these reports. If it is being used as a generalized idea of whether the population is trending significantly up or down, I see no problem. Perhaps it is used as just one more piece of evidence that helps to verify their statistical efforts at deer management. I have no problems with any attempts at verification. Probably not enough on-the-ground verification going on these days as they worship at the altar of statistics.....lol. But I hope they are not trying to go any farther with this kind of input than just examining rough trends.

I have done a bit of calculating on just how far a deer can move forward while an arrow is in the air with just a single step. Even with some exceptionally fast bows, the distance a deer can move from the time the release is triggered until the arrow gets there can convert a perfect shot into a gut-shot at some of the more moderate distances like 40, 50 or more yards. I used a deer walking speed of 3.5 - 4 mph for the speed of that single step (per "The Deer of North America" Leonard Lee Rue III… Page 40). Play with some of those numbers and amaze yourself. Yes, that stationary target pinned up on a bale at the target range never presents that possibility, and we never get to see those results on the target range. I'm not talking about jumping the string or any other kinds of sudden violent moves ..... I'm not talking about any deer response to being frightened. Just a casual single step forward to reach that next piece of browse, or continue on to wherever it was heading before it paused. I'm not trying to make any judgments, but just offering something to consider relative to this discussion. It gets interesting.

But he can be real thankful it didn't happen while he was using it. A week ago, I had to rebuild a ground-stand that had a rotten tree laying right where I usually put my folding stool. All the logs and cover that I had assembled there was all smashed. The fallen tree was about 2-1/2 feet in diameter.

With the gun, the trick unfortunately is that over the years observe and pattern the hunters, and use that info to figure out where they will push the deer. Then set up an intercept position at the most reliable escape routes or areas.

Great pics!

And of course I guess your scientific study based on 5 rifles represents some kind of version of documented credibility ...... ha-ha-ha.

Sometimes they are just silly goats that have an amazing sense of curiosity. Actually, they have a copy of NYS Conservation Law, and a calendar.

These tired old eyes don't have a prayer at long shots without some kind of optical assistance ..... lol. I used to be pretty darn deadly with a peep sight, but they have some limitations in light conditions that aren't ideal.

Believe me, that design is literally decades ahead of the one that we had hanging on the livingroom wall. That one didn't just ring, but you had to listen for your own unique code. Our ring was 4 long and 3 short rings. You pulled the ear-piece out of the cradle on the side and talked into the horn that stuck out the front of the box. And that was considered hi-tech. We still have an old black dial telephone wired into our land-line system. Had a great time laughing at my nephew trying to call his parents on it. He just stood there and stared at it not knowing where to even start....lol. "Stick your finger where and do what???"

I think the concern is justified. Any animal that is acting unusual should be avoided. Yes, from those two pictures he looks healthy enough, but rabies doesn't always have visible symptoms at first glance.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you are trading a bit of what you are calling "clutter" for an additional step in your shooting set-up. That's probably not something you want to be faced with when the deer is closing in on you. I think I would prefer to take that extra motion and time and activity out of my sighting process. I already have too long of a checklist of shooting procedures and things to think about. I would rather not have to set up my sight as well prior to executing the shot. The good news is that there is no between the pins guess-work. You set it for one distance and then where the pin is where the arrow is supposed to go. Different things are important to different people, and so it really becomes a personal choice based on preferences.

I'm a 20 yard and under guy. Yes, I have 30, 40 and 50 yard pins, but those are for paper. When I feel the need to test my archery skills, I have a target range for that. I used to love the 80 yard walk-up on the NFAA field archery, especially with the recurve. My bowhunting features hunting skills that measure how close I can get to a critter not how far away I am forced to settle for. That's where the excitement and challenge of bowhunting are for me. I have gun season and a rifle for the long-range meat gathering....lol.

Sure.....That stuff ranks right up there with all the other things that fall in the category of "If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself". Yeah, my hearing is slipping a bit. Well, maybe more than just a bit .... lol. Some of it due to shooting, some of it due to loud music, and most of it due to who-the-hell-knows-what. It is good stuff to consider. From what I have heard and read, damage comes mostly from repetitive abuse, so I am not sure how bad the occasional shot from hunting actually is. I know target shooting can beat the hell out of your ears. You had better learn to talk extra loud if you plan on conversing with most of the older competitive shooters.

I bought an arrow cutting saw years ago. It wasn't cheap. But considering the hundreds of arrows that I have built over the 20 or 30 years that I owned the thing, that cost was absorbed a long, long, time ago and probably has amortized out to be one of the cheaper pieces of archery equipment that I ever bought.

If deer spooked at every drop of sweat, urine or other human, coyote, dog, etc. that get deposited in the woods, they would never stop running .... lol. I believe there is a big difference in reactions to those kinds of deposited scents, and the fresh scent coming off the actual body. One is the scent of a critter that isn't there anymore, and the other is the scent of something that is still present.

I don't use scents anymore, but I do know that estrous scents do work ........ sometimes. That would be one time out of a hundred ... lol. Yes, I had the drag-rag trick work perfectly one time. He came in following my trail step for step with his nose to the ground like a beagle. I tried it a jillion times since and had no success. So there apparently is a bit of a trick to it. It would be interesting to see if many have had good "early season" success with scents per the original post. I have a feeling that most success with scents are rut-related.

Put in a few bunks and a small stove, and you can be on stand without even walking to it early on opening morning.

Len Lisenbee, outdoor columnist for the Canandaigua Daily Messenger, Ontario County Also has a website: http://www.lenlisenbee.com/

It happens every year, and more often than you might think. Our family was touched by this same kind of tragedy a couple years ago. When we think we are invincible, that's when something real nasty will happen. Buy and use the proper safety gear or stay the hell out of the trees.

It's more a question of being on the right acre than having enough acres ..... lol.

I thought you all might get a kick out of these and maybe lighten up the mood here a bit....

My exact set-up........ a real tack-driver!

My comment was not meant to indicate a rightness or wrongness to "locking up land". It is just an observation that I and apparently many others attribute to the steady decline of hunting. And I am saying that QDM may play some additional part in that limiting of access. I personally believe in the sanctity of landowner's rights, but I do remember a time when deer hunting was not driving the posting and in fact posted signs were a bit of an oddity. At that same time, hunting as an activity was on a growth curve. It has nothing to do with politics or liberals or conservatives ..... lol. It simply is an observation. Make of that what you want, but I think some of that may have had a part in the O.P. creating this thread.

Yeah, I used to watch a show on TV called "Chasing tail" or some stupid name like that. It was about urban hunters. They had pretty good hunting there too.....lol. But I have to say that even if there was a guaranteed book-buck in it for me, I would never be found hunting in that kind of situation. It simply has to do with my own personal requirements for the hunting experience, the sights and sounds and the escape from all of the crap of civilization. Lol.... If I wanted to, I could sit in my livingroom and shoot deer in my front yard out the window if I only wanted a deer to shoot. But for me, there are some places that simply do not offer an adequate hunting experience, and I don't hunt those places. But, that's just me. I guess its a subjective thing that is simply a measure of what hunting needs to be for each individual.

Why do you assume the police cannot do any good? You would be surprised what simple interviews of neighbors can turn up. Also, your report may be another clue to a pattern that they may need to find these creeps. One of the best protections of crooks is the unwillingness of victims to report crimes. Also, as has been said earlier on this thread, a report is necessary for any stolen items that get found later on to be returned to you. If the cops get these guys, how the hell are they supposed to know that some of the stolen items are yours if you haven't turned in a report? Another tip .... If you are going to resort to cameras, make sure they are well concealed, or you will just be contributing yet another item for them to steal.