Doc

Maybe it's not all bad news. Difficulty in reloading may make you focus on making that first shot count. I know some gun hunters that could use that mentality .... lol.

Wouldn't you think that in the design of any crank-style cocking device on a hunting weapon that absolute silence would be a natural "must-have" design criteria? .... lol

It's nearly impossible to try to draw on a deer that has caught you by surprise. It's almost a lost cause. Maybe the idea is to only hunt old deer that have similar problems. I've got to find only deaf and blind deer to try to even the odds .... lol.

Around here it is supposed to get more reasonable at the tail end of next week. At least enough so I can move around without soaking up shirts....lol.

Honestly, I don't know either. I can't imagine that there would be any liability on opinions. I know other sites have product reviews of different items.

Yeah, high winds have always bothered me as much as it does the deer. I really want to hear them critters.

My gosh are you still going at it? For crying out loud, give it a rest. Are you having some kind of breakdown or something?

Usually about this time of year I am in a regimen of some pretty heavy daily bow practice and a bit of ground stand building or re-freshing, or just plain wandering around seeing what the critters are doing. But we are in quite a heavy hot spell here, and I can't even get away from the air conditioning. With the viciousness of the mosquitos, it's not as simple as just ripping a shirt off. They never did back off this summer. It's just plain ugly out there. How are you guys handling all this heat, or are you all set and not worrying about getting out?

Getting a little older. I can't hear as well as I used to. It all brings me back to how my Dad's hearing started going, and I always wondered how he could even hunt with his hearing failing. It looks like I may find out .... lol. How often has it been that a very slight rustle in the leaves was the thing that tipped you off that the deer didn't follow the trail, but was coming in behind you. How about that distant snapped twig that gets you looking intently in the right direction. How many times did something you heard pull your attention to spotting the deer coming in way the heck off in the distance so you were not caught by surprise? Maybe it was something you didn't even know you heard that put your attention in the right direction. So, how important is your hearing to your hunting? If your hearing started to fail, what impact would that be to your success or failure?

But even that is not a direction that the DEC seems to want to go as they continue to march toward filling bow season with as efficient a set of deer harvesting weapons as possible. They are focused on having the ability to cut deer herds as much as the political pressures demand regardless of what the season is called. They are not interested in setting up or safeguarding seasons that feature challenge. They want deer seasons that are focused on efficiently eliminating population. To them, anything else is a waste. Seriously ..... I don't know any other way to interpret all the moves that they have made lately.

You always seem to think that every comment is aimed at you, and personalize everything. Not everything on this forum is about you ..... honestly...lol. However, I will add that if the shoe fits, wear it.

It seems that everytime I upgrade operating systems, I find some existing software does not play well with it. There always seems to be some kind of hassle. Over the years, I have lost the use of thousands of dollars worth of software. I know that eventually there comes a time when you have to upgrade for compatibility with new software purchases. But I am going to wait until that issue arises. For me, I have never found improvements to be significant enough to warrant the additional hassles. Also, it seems like they are always changing something to things that don't work as conveniently as they used to. I'll wait until I have to, and hopefully I won't have to ..... lol. I'll be interested to see what others think.

Way to go gramps! Another one in the books.....Congratulations.

Really? You calling me out. What is this ... 6-guns at high noon? ..... lol. I got nothing during bow season, and shot the two does in gun season that I had permits for. Why? .... was this a contest? I would have tried harder if I had known that I was in a competition .... lol. So anyway, what the hell set you off in such a pissed off spring loaded condition. My gosh calm down a bit and take whatever it is that you take to get yourself back under control. I am just telling you what I have heard people say, and what I have read authors in magazines preaching. I am not trying to claim that I have run some kind of poll or anything. Maybe you have ..... Have you? We don't seem to agree on our personal experiences, but don't take that as a reason to begin some kind of feud for cripe sake. I know you like to set yourself up as some kind outdoor wizard who is never wrong, but try not to take it so personal when someone has a different set of experiences than you and sincerely offers an opinion on things. Opinions are not really a declaration of war. Also, I don't have any idea what you think my attitude is toward the DEC. I couldn't make much of anything out of all that "and the way things were" nonsense, and the fear-mongering, and complaints about people who dare to complain, and whatever all that rambling spewing was supposed to be all about. So I won't even comment on that. All I can say is that if you want to have an intelligent discussion, try starting off without that chip on your shoulder and understand that not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy. Conversation is a lot easier when you stay calm and drop the paranoia. Nobody is really out to get ya'.

It's not just a payroll issue, I believe there is a genuine antagonistic attitude in the DEC. There is now an adversarial condition between hunters and the DEC that I have been feeling developing for quite a while, especially as regards bowhunters.

The answer to your question I guess is that bow season would still clearly be bow season with all the original challenges that it was created for. I was there during that controversy, and eventually I came over to the compound side. But I remember that back then the longbow/recurve guys were saying that the inclusion of compounds would set the precedent for stuffing more and more different things into the bow season. They said that the definition of bow season would have very little meaning anymore. One thing would set the precedent for the next until there was no real need to have a special season for bowhunting. And by golly as it turns out, they were absolutely correct. Now we see guns stirred in with bows, and indeed the uniqueness of bowhunting with it's special requirements has been diluted to the point where the DEC feels quite comfortable recommending the inclusion of muzzleloaders. Now bowseason is looked at as the catch-all season. If you don't know where to put something, dump it in bowseason. Big surprise? .... Not to me, and I guess it wouldn't be a big surprise to the old-timers who were against heading down this trail with the compound. Your last sentence tells the whole story .... "most compound bow hunters today are too young to remember it, or have it matter to them."

So it may very well happen that the archery doe-take in those areas could go down substantially because of the DEC's brilliant program. Gee, I guess all those people who were surveyed kind of missed that little potential side-effect. And since no one at the DEC can think for themselves without a mandate from stakeholders, It may wind up a result that slips by everyone. Or perhaps the DEC knew exactly what would happen.

I think it was obvious to any bowhunter with a pulse.

Be aware that this poll may be sampling primarily more dedicated hunters than the general deer hunting population. Polls like this taken within a hunting forum may contain more respondents that more leaning toward the more dedicated side of hunting. So as a gage of member attitudes it might be quite representative, but as a gage of hunters in general, it may not be.

Like I said, I have no interest in debating the statement, but it does show the mentality that is adding to the DEC's inability to manage harvests.

Here's a very frequent quote that I hear over and over from those that are "big buck hunters". "Most hunters never give the rutting big bucks a chance to come through because they are busy shooting the does that the bucks are following". These people will refuse to shoot the does because they are convinced that there may be a big buck following them up. Those guys are so hung up on bucks/antlers that they will never shoot a doe for fear that they will mess up the opportunity at the possible buck following that doe or group of does. Now I don't want to start a great debate on that little pearl of wisdom, but remarks such as that show a definite mindset or reluctance to shoot does because of the big buck/antler fixation. How widespread is that attitude? I have no data (nor does anyone else), but I hear and read those sentiments quite frequently such that I believe it is not an insignificant number of hunters. So, is it any wonder that it is hard to get cooperation from hunters to thin the doe numbers. There is a need for an educational campaign among hunters and those that are entering the ranks of hunting. Maybe we even need a bit of a de-programing campaign to set the hunter antler fetish in its proper perspective and convince hunters that it is in their best interests to take does.

I knew that way back when the DEC was pushing so hard for the inclusion of an early muzzleloading season years ago. I knew the issue would not go away, and I suspected that the DEC would figure out a scenario to get what they wanted. I am convinced that they see bow season as a total waste of some prime deer harvesting time. That is why they have been trying everything they can to introduce firearms into bow season. They want that precedent set so they can expand the acceptance of guns in bow season. So we have been handed a challenge that is impossible to succeed at even if everyone were to try their best. Better than that, they are the keepers of all the numbers and able to massage the interpretation of the results in any way that they want. Seriously, we don't need a poll to know how this is all going to turn out.

I haven't been asked, but I can tell you how not to handle that dilemma, and I don't even have to be the head of the DEC whitetail management team. The antlerless season is actually a good idea, but to waste that activity by assigning it to the least effective hunting weapons/season sure does bring into question the sincerity and credibility of the effort.

It seems like we have an entrenched hunter culture that now considers that killing does is not hunting. How do you unravel that? Today when you want to tell anyone about a deer that you shot, you had better not be talking about a doe. And if the score isn't something significant, it is like it never happened. That is what has happened to our hunters. And now that attitude is so deeply engrained in our hunting, that it is beginning to become impossible to manage deer populations. The primary tool of management, the hunter, is broken. We have always been buck oriented in our definition of success, but now it has gotten to the point where hunters are refusing to shoot does. The DEC has to face that mentality. And yet the mentality persists and grows with all these grand schemes for increasing buck numbers and antler sizes and trophy opportunities. We can't even manage the herd size and yet we are still obsessed only with buck management issues. I don't think this is really going to end well. We are tolerated only because we are necessary to keeping deer numbers in check. We are going to have to begin doing our job.

I have gone through the hardcore phase, and now that I am approaching an age where I have to slow down a bit, I do have to treat it more like a casual hobby that serves the purpose of recreation rather than a frantic, rabid, activity that has to have top priority 24/7.