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Everything posted by Doc
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Even if that is so, what difference does that make? None of that has any bearing on showing that the articles are dealing with sensationalizing. It's simple news reporting. See, I simply don't get your point. You seem to be aggravated at some magazine editors for pointing out Cuomo's involvement and think that they are doing something other than reporting a news story. Would you have been happier if they had just suppressed that part of the news? Seriously, I don't get it.
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The cost issue is an important one. I'm sure there a lot of people who think feeding is fun and a great way to save deer until they find out just how expensive it can be and then they just abruptly stop. I remember a story a decade or two ago about some little old lady in the Adirondacks who loved to feed her beautiful deer because she just simply liked to see them. It all seemed like a great idea until she found out that her fixed income couldn't withstand feeding this ever growing herd of new dependents. When the cash ran out, so did the feed. Well, guess what ..... she had conditioned the deer to pick up their free meal at her yard, and they remained congregated there for the remainder of the winter. It turned out to be an artificially created deer yard. By spring, the surrounding habitat had been totally destroyed through intense over-browsing and several deer were lost to starvation as a result of her "act of kindness". Sometimes the most innocent of do-gooder activities can wind up destroying far more animals than it saves.
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As a point of correction, the original post properly labeled the death of the elk to be caused by rumen acidosis, and did not mention CWD at all. But I have to say that the jury is still out regarding CWD and a huge laundry list of other deer diseases that can be transmitted through body incidental contact with body wastes. Logic tells me that it is a much more danger in having deer drawn to a single pile of food as opposed to having deer dispersed throughout a food plot. However, I do have to agree that in such cases as a heavily bearing apple tree or acorn bearing oak tree there is little real difference. But, just because bad situations occur naturally with animals in the wild that does not justify adding to that unfortunate condition through widespread additional human intervention. And yes, there are other states that do not agree with our DEC on this issue or have simply decided that it is easier to avoid the feeding situation than to outlaw it. Also I agree that there are those that simply ignore the law, and we have no idea what the negative outcomes are that come from that illegal activity. We do know of this one result in PA. where it is also illegal to feed wildlife. In that case, they lost a very valuable developing resource because somebody else thought the PGC didn't know what they were talking about. Look, I am not advocating one way or the other, I am merely stating what the DEC is trying to tell us. They are the ones that we pay the big bucks to research and learn and earn their college degrees in real animal biology ..... not us. Certainly we can all have an opinion on anything we wish to, but the credibility on this has to reside in the offices of the DEC. I am pretty sure that they have no motive for banning the practice of deer feeding unless they really believe what they are saying about the dangers of artificially concentrating deer populations. Frankly, I don't always agree with their conclusions and methods, but in the end, I have to admit that they are the ones charged with doing the studies, drawing the conclusions, and setting the appropriate regulations ...... not me.
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Peanut butter and orange marmalade ( did I spell that right?). Also, honey is great with peanut butter on toast or as a sandwich.
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Frankly, I can think of nothing good that can come of concentrating deer through single point feeding. Whether you consider the hazards of incorrect feeding due to the ignorance of untrained individuals, or diseases borne of artificially induced close contact (not just limited to CWD), or just the destruction of natural habitat due to impracticality and failure to keep up with a proper and adequate feeding program.
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I understand all that has gone on before, but right now the legislative impetus is contained in Cuomo's document. Therefore he is behind the proposals, plain and simple. Those who are suggesting that he is merely expressing opinions are ignoring that fact. He is an active pusher of those issues and has therefore taken ownership. And that is exactly what the articles that I have read are accurately portraying.
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I have to admit that this activity does seem to contradict the language they used when they decided to protect the feral hogs from hunters. In fact, if I wanted to disperse any herds and drive them into nocturnal movements, chasing them around with helicopters might be one of the things that would come to mind.
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Probably the most impressive part of that whole clip was the control and reasonableness that he displayed with his answer. We often feel the need to explode on someone asking those kinds of questions (kind of a Nugent reaction). I am willing to bet that his patient, reasoned, answer won over a whole lot more people in that room than if he had given into a rather natural instinct to lash out that most of us would react with.
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Yes, Cuomo "is behind the proposals". It is his budget that is supplying the current proposals. They are not coming via the normal legislative route, but instead are coming via his executive budget activity. To me that constitutes more than just mere support. Let's face it, he is not just simply issuing and opinion of support. He has taken an activist stance and has come up with the verbiage to push it forward. Yeah, I think he owns the issue now.
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Well, that explains why you are so free with the privacy rights of others. You'll never have anybody move in that close to your cabin, so the hell with everybody else. Good attitude.
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While I have enough land to insulate myself from this kind of invasive activity, I am able to put myself in the position of some suburbanites who may have to put up with some unwelcome intrusions. We all have the right to a certain amount of privacy whether we are hunters or not. And we are not really going to be making any friends by imposing ourselves on others. That really shouldn't be a real difficult concept to understand. Personally, I have no desire or need to hunt in places where I can listen to every word of somebody's arguments, or keep up with my favorite TV programs by getting myself all cozy with my neighbor. That's not "taking the anti hunters side, that is just common respect for the privacy of others. And from the other side of the situation, unless you were a close friend or relative, there is no way I would agree to have somebody hunkered down 50 yards from my house either. That's simply ridiculous. And the accidental release comment was regarding backyard practice that can take place by anyone....experienced shooters, kids just fooling around, someone who has a care about safety and those that don't, those that might have adequate backstopping and those that have none. And yes, that arrow does not always go where we plan, and those that laugh about the possibilities of accidental releases and other types of safety issues are precisely the reason I believe that 50 yards is way too close and they provide all the reason I need to oppose a setback reduced to 50 yards.
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Lol .... now that is extreme. Maybe he needed the extra weight for traction.
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I've got a 1000' driveway that I have to deal with, so I use my Yamaha 4wd ATV. It works great, and I can actually plow back farther than I would be able to with a truck. As I push the snow off to the side, I can actually ride on top of the snow that I just plowed as long as I don't get too crazy. Also, as far as maneuverability, you just can beat the little critter. In 42 years, there has only been once when I had to have something bigger that an ATV to handle snow removal. That was a year back in the 70's when we had a March snowstorm that dumped 3' of soaking wet snow overnight. That was a deal that even your average pickup wouldn't have been able to handle. I had to get a payloader in you cut a skinny path down through until it finally all melted in about a week. Other than that, it has all been done via ATV. In fact for a lot of those years, all I had was a 2WD, and it did the job pretty nicely. That's the good news. The bad news was like yesterday when I was down in front cleaning out the entrance when the big road-plow came flying down the road and buried me with sloppy, gloppy salt-laden snow and slop. I guess that wouldn't happen if I was protected by a truck cab. Also, when the temps get down near zero, a nice heated truck cab would be appreciated.
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Again, if people could be trained in the biological needs of deer, perhaps the DEC might not have such a negative view of the practice of feeding deer. But that doesn't happen and won't happen, and in fact can't be done in a practical sense. As far as deer eating corn in the fall (hunting season), that is normal for that time of year. That is a far different scenario than what they are eating right now in the dead of winter and how their gut is conditioned now. That is the problem. There doesn't seem to be a recognition of how dramatically deer diets change as the winter season advances. And even when told, it still goes over people's heads...... hence the "no feeding" law.
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Let's hope that they do not break it down as fine as you are describing. But, I certainly wouldn't put it past them to make it just as confusing and obtuse as possible. They are known for that. But really, game laws need simplification rather than more complexity. And let's face it if you can get the densely populated urban and suburban (the hotbed of anti-hunting) residents to put up with this nonsense, you might as well make it a statewide fiasco while they are at it.
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I really don't see anything that falls into the category of sensationalizing in any of the articles that cover this story. The facts are correct, and whether or not this is a repeat action by Cuomo, the story and actions are still factual. Plus, if these provisions were indeed stripped from his last budget, it is likely that he used them as throw-away issues to advance the budget. He certainly has a lot more motivation to not be quite as free with them this year. Frankly, I do think it is a done-deal.
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I find it kind of funny to watch people who think our 1000' driveway is some kind of single lane town road. They finally get to a point where they can see the house and then just stop, apparently sitting there pondering what they should do now. They never finish their journey or they would discover a nice circle to get them pointed back out. Instead they start the process of turning around in the width of a single lane. I haven't had anyone go off the driveway and into the ditch yet, but it likely will happen one of these times. I often wonder just what is going through their heads that would make them even want to come up there. It's a well-maintained driveway, but it really doesn't look like any kind of public road. But anyway, so far it has not really caused any problems ...... yet.
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And there is the problem. The average person interested in feeding deer has absolutely no idea of what or how or any clue about the consequences of their ignorance. Frankly, I doubt that the number of people who have even heard the term "rumen Acidosis" would even make it to 1% of the population that would engage in feeding activities. There are other responsibilities that come with feeding wildlife where ignorance can spell tragedy for the very animals that they are trying to help. Attempting to monitor and control the use of unwise feeding procedures is certainly an impossible activity for the DEC, and I can well understand why they decided that eliminating the activity entirely is a much smarter way to go. But anyway, I thought this article added yet one more layer to all the reasons that the DEC decided to ban deer feeding, and hope you all found it interesting. Sorry I couldn't supply a link to the entire article. There were a few other things that were discussed in there too.
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wtf my daughters school telling her hunting is bad
Doc replied to silent death's topic in General Chit Chat
Those incidents have been the excuse for all kinds of weird invasive changes. I'm beginning to think doctors should have badges if they are to be considered another branch of law enforcement. Perhaps the Hippocratic oath should be modified a bit to include some of the cop's oath.....lol. -
While I never realized that the little dictator had the power to do so, it appears that he can make such changes simply by decree in his budget. It makes you wonder just how far those "executive budget powers" extend. How something like this can be dictated as a matter of "budget powers" is beyond me. But anyway, Grow is absolutely correct. It has been decreed and with the passage of the budget, all of this stuff will become finalized. I don't know whether there is any other step in the process, but I would say from the attached article it appears not : https://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/East-End/50260/Cuomo-Seeks-Hunting-Regulation-Changes-Deer-Hunting-Areas-May-Open-Up "While the local deer debate rages on, Governor Andrew Cuomo has used his executive budget powers to potentially loosen hunting restrictions statewide—a move his office is touting as a direct countermeasure to the spiking deer population. As an amendment to the state’s Environmental Conservation Law, Gov. Cuomo’s budget seeks to officially allow the use of crossbows for the hunting of deer and bear. In addition, the budget would allow the use of either a long bow or a crossbow at a distance of 150 feet or more from any building—a far cry from the current 500-foot setback."
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Oh come-on....... Are you serious? ...... Double charged? How the heck does that happen? I have to say that ever since I went through that fiasco of trying to exchange ammo with the visibly mangled cases (I took a horrible beating on that one), My confidence in Winchester ammo has gone down the drain. I was amazed that such stuff could get through the quality control. And yet it did. Now they are creating unsafe loads? I don't know what has happened to them, but it certainly isn't good.
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wtf my daughters school telling her hunting is bad
Doc replied to silent death's topic in General Chit Chat
So, exactly when did doctors become members of law enforcement? I think they have an important enough job without getting themselves involved in trying to be confidential street informants. This idea that they should become intimate members of each patient's household and how they conduct their lives seems to me to be just a bit invasive whether it is actually mandated by law, or a position that they have voluntarily inserted themselves into. I have never been asked about firearms in the house, and I wouldn't expect to be. I believe that if I were asked about it, I would insist that office conversations be limited to the medical business that I am paying them for. -
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll set the recorder.
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wtf my daughters school telling her hunting is bad
Doc replied to silent death's topic in General Chit Chat
Doctors can ask any kind of invasive questions that they want, but it is still up to the patient to answer or not. After all, the doctor is the employee in these cases, not the boss. In the case of the original post however, the right of a teacher to weave their politics into the curriculum does not exist. And all the advice to make a big deal out of such offenses are spot on. Right quickly, as much of an example as possible should be made of those that take those kinds of liberties with the minds of minors.