Doc

All I know is that I would not want to be the anti-gun representative assigned to debate him. The man does have a powerful reservoir of knowledge that he can pull out of that crazy mind at a second's notice. I have seen some pretty clever debaters that were totally destroyed by the fact that he combats their emotional arguments with cold hard facts and documentation. Piers Morgan comes to mind ..... totally destroyed by Nugent.

Old Ben Franklin was a pretty smart guy, and most likely he was dead on with this quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither." Notice how he went out of his way to specify temporary safety. That old "slippery slope" that so many people often talk about seems to have some relevance here. There are evil opportunities that are available and tempting to an over-zealous government when we start down that road of government monitoring and surveillance of citizenry. Just to put it all in today's perspective, how much of that surveillance power would you like to see a "President" Cuomo to have? It seems to me that it is quite prudent for individuals to control their urges to offer unlimited trust to the government regardless of the reasons.

Anyone who wants to see the relative degree of difficulty of any of the versions of shot placement can refer to a thread that consists of very complete pictures showing locations and sizes of the various lethal parts of a deer.

That's interesting. The gun has been made illegal to own without registration, but not the components that make it illegal. Right now it appears that an assault rifle that is dismantled to a certain level does not have to be registered. Am I understanding all that correctly? Does that mean that a anyone rejected by the background check could still order the components of a firearm and do the assembly at his leisure?

I'm still trying to figure out the origin of the name "titmouse".

I am not a guy who has shot a whole lot of rifles, but recently I was looking for a caliber for a rifle to use here in Ontario County. This past season was our first one where they allowed rifles rather than shotgun only. Recoils was a big deal for me because I wanted to be able to spend some time at the bench doing some intense target practice with it. What I wound up with after a whole lot of research and question-asking, was the American Ruger in .270 caliber. It is not exactly like shooting a .22, but there is almost no perceptible recoil. I can shoot that gun all day and never feel any kind of pain. And yet judging by the damage inflicted on the 2 deer that I shot, I have to say that I was impressed at what was going on at the business end. In fact, one of the deer may have suffered a bit of overkill as there was some meat lost. It was a "quartering to" kind of shot and the bullet entered the front shoulder and exited the rear ham. Probably not a very well thought out shot selection, but I really didn't expect the bullet to go that far diagonally through the deer. But anyway, I think the caliber selection was quite perfect. I have no doubt that it would really do a number on a bear. And here in NYS, that's about all it has to do.

There is an amazing quote that I ran into while following one of the links in the Daily News article in the original post. Check this out: "New York is indeed an expensive place, but experts say that alone doesn't explain a recent report that found the city's annual cost per inmate was $167,731 last year — nearly as much as it costs to pay for four years of tuition at an Ivy League university." What the hell is that all about? And now the jerk wants to add onto that the cost of importing college professors and creating classrooms. Come on.... there has to be a limit to his idiocy somewhere, isn't there?

So what is the stature of your girlfriend. I have seen some ladies that are very delicate, and have a hard time standing up against a stiff breeze. And then there are those that (I don't know how do I put this delicately) look like Russian meat-fighters, who could withstand either end of a 12 ga. shotgun. That may be a serious consideration as to whether you drop all the way back to .243, or get her involved in a more traditional but damaging caliber. Also, I am assuming that you are outfitting her for deer hunting. That is true isn't it?

I can hardly wait to hear our resident libs start defending this one ..... lol. Look, this all goes along the same lines that this idiot has been following forever. Screw those who attempt to conduct their lives in a fashion conducive to good citizenship, personal responsibility, and decency. Reward those that are the dregs of society. Do you have difficulty raising the cash to go to school? Do you foresee problems with repaying your student loans? Simply look for some illegal offence that will give you occupancy of about 4 or 5 years in one of our $60,000 per year per inmate lodgings and Uncle Andy will take care of you. You know, maybe all you guys that want to run away from NYS really do have the right answer. This place is circling the bowl.

If you want reliable, credible information on how or if such a transaction can take place, I would suggest that you contact the NYS police and ask how that is currently done. Make sure that you specify that it is your wife's gun and that she is the one who wants to perform the sale or trade.

Fear not everyone. When Andy gets done with this state, the population will be over-flowing. Potheads all over the country will be heading for NYS as soon as he gets things lined up for legalized recreational marijuana. And if that doesn't do it, we will be having a massive influx of muggers and rapists looking for that free education in prison. Can't afford a college education, or don't want to be faced with burdensome pay-back of college loans? .... just pick out some kind of crime that will get you about 4 years or so. The taxpayers will pick up the tab and Uncle Andy will fix you right up. The population will stabilize, it's just that the nature of the citizens will be considerably different

And don't be thinking that Remington is the only industry being forced out of the state by this governor and his anti-gun policies. American tactical is moving to South Carolina, Kahr Arms is heading for PA. and all Beikirch's expansion is heading for PA. And those are only the ones that I am aware of. The jobs, and sales and income tax money and all purchases of those potential employees ..... gone. This Governor has cost the state a pile of money, and for no good reason.

I think it is time for me to leave this thread alone. I find myself becoming more and more disgusted with hunters and gun owners who are now championing gun control, and I am sure that as a result I will eventually say something that I probably shouldn't.....lol.

This year was the most pleasant shooting experience of my deer-hunting life. Ontario County became another new county allowing rifle use for deer. This year I actually had an opportunity to sit down with my deer gun (.270) and actually spend considerable time doing lot of target practice with it. It was fun, and didn't result in a black & blue shoulder or flinching. Sighting in my deer gun was actually a pleasant and fun experience and not something to be dreaded. The old 12 ga. Ithaca may never come out again .... lol. The .270? .... two deer for two shots.

Lol .... Easy there Mike. We tend to let topics drift a bit without calling in the "topic police". If you are super concerned with topic purity, I would suggest that you at take a moment to at least scan the DEC bear management proposal just to show a little sincerity in your concern .... lol. It's not really all that long. Personally I think erussell's concern over bear predation of fawns is a legitimate comment on a topic involving a bear management plan.

Quote: " Why a New Stamp? Our Proposal:A Federal Wildlife Conservation Stamp would provide a robust, parallel revenue stream for National Wildlife Refuges, preserving habitat and wildlife — while also giving non-extractive users a funding tool and a stronger voice in habitat and wildlife decisions on our shared public lands. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That sounds like just what we want to have happen. By the way, I like that term "non-extractive users" .... lol. I guess I'm an "extractive user".

Somewhere I read that bears are a very underestimated cause of fawn predation.

Yes, there are a whole string of protections somewhere in the law that will eventually make someone pay for a tragedy (not necessarily prevent it). And that's one of the problems with our legal system. Instead of writing things out with the details included in the pertinent law, you are expected to wade through an armful of law books to figure out what the details are, instead of simply including it in the first place. When somebody reads that set-back law, I want them to read the other relative verbiage at the same time.

I understand what you are saying, and it is frustrating to be seeing things in this state circling the bowl as more and more people buy into the cradle-to-grave worship of papa government. I can't argue with any of that. And I'm sure that if I were to live long enough there will come a time when NYS will become an intolerable place for any freedom-loving person to abide. Let's just put it this way. Today we are a long way from that. It may well be in sight, but we're not to the intolerable phase ..... yet! There is also the other thing to consider that I call "the grass is always greener ....." effect. While we concentrate primarily on our own state, sometimes it is easy to look by the fact that other states have been coming toward us in terms of all the things that we find abhorrent about this state. In fact the whole country's government is very NYS-like in attitudes and conduct of government. So it comes down to a question of where are you going to run to? And how many times over the course of your life are you going to pick up and run again? And when the whole country takes on the very same attributes that have driven you out of NYS, are you then going to begin running from country to country? Sometimes it's just not as easy as running and hiding. Sometimes you have to stop and take a stand. Win, lose, or draw the right answer often is to stand and fight as best as you can and maybe pray for a miracle.

This has been a nasty winter, but in terms of all the winters that I remember, it's not really all that high on the list. We have had it pretty darn good for the quite a while such that we seem to forget what this time of year traditionally has been like. A lot of this is just the shock of returning to normal. To be honest, the only time that I ever saw a significant die-off was back in the late 80's when we had a winter that makes this one look like a piece of cake. That was coupled with a deer population that never should have been allowed to get any where near that high. The result was a huge yarding situation for an extended period of time, and that made for a significant die-off. It also turned out to be a longer than usual winter extending way out into what is normally considered to be spring. So far this year, none of that is happening (at last not here in WNY). Frankly I don't see this year as being anything noteworthy, and the deer undoubtedly will do just fine without any help as they have done forever. In areas where the population is beyond carrying capacity of the habitat there may be problems. Most likely that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I have no idea what you are talking about. This Governor and his merry bunch of libs need no "political cover". Haven't you caught on to that yet? The remainder of your reply says exactly that. So your proposed policy of appeasement is pretty much just a short-cut to eventual total confiscation. Now maybe that's exactly what you want, I don't know. We've had bigger surprises on here. But logic should tell you that stalling tactics are far better than simply buckling under and cowering before the bulldozer tactics of the left.

With archery, I think it is fine the way it is. At 500', as I said before, you would really have to be purposely shooting at a ridiculously elevated aiming point to hit anyone that far away or their house. Probably would also be true even at 100 yards as well. I also think the privacy invasions would also be alleviated with a 100yard or 500 ' setback. And even at that, I still would like to see some language added to all setback restrictions that mentions features, people, pets, etc., in the background of where a shot is aimed. Since firearms setbacks have also made their way into this discussion, I would add that the 500' setback is adequate as long as there is language added making it illegal to shoot toward buildings, people, pets, etc. How that wording ever got left out of that law is beyond me.

Cuomo is a scum-bag. A stinking, filthy, disgusting bag of scum. Pretty much the lowest form of filth that has ever crawled the earth. There! I feel so much better now.

This particular freak buck does point out in a very graphic way that number of points does not indicate age. I think that's what started the AR comments.

I don't know whether you are comfortable with that kind of logic, but I personally would simply rather see something included in that setback law that talks about what's behind the target. You must have a lot more trust in strangers than I do.....lol. Let's face it if everyone out there was doing what is safe and sane when deer get in front of them, we wouldn't really need a lot of these laws to call their attention to unsafe practices would we? I have seen people shoot in the direction of our house. With the introduction of rifles since then, the results may have turned out to be quite a bit different. But the point is that they do it. And if they do it with guns, they damned sure will do it with a bow if there isn't some language prohibiting it. If they are out at 500' shooting their bow at the house, I probably wouldn't worry a whole lot about it unless they were trying to hit the house. But at 50 yards, the arrow trajectory easily makes to the house without any particular exaggerated elevation in aiming. Also, while it is getting a bit repetitive, I have to remind you that the concerns are not just with hunting situations. Backyard target situations also have to be considered. There are a lot of suburban situations where the 50 yards can easily be accommodated, but the backdrop (houses, yards, etc.) is not so easily controlled.