Doc

I agree with this. He has the kind of loud-mouthed, overbearing, personality that I don't often care to associate with. I cannot picture him as a personal friend. However, as objectionable as his personality may be, if you want someone that can swamp the anti-hunters/gunners with a blitz of facts and leave them hemming and hawing and red-faced and stammering like a fool, he's your man.

What a dummy .... I talked about the thread on deer anatomy and never put the link in my reply. Anyway, if you all want to see how much sense it makes to be aiming at the smallest lethal parts of the deer, check out the diagrams and photos at : http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/6770-deer-anatomy/ When you get done looking at all that take a look at the massive heart/lung area. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which is the more responsible shot selection.

Gut shot deer can be recovered. It's no simple task, but can often be done. However, deer that are shot high above the vital organs, or in the rump with the femoral missed can run you on a merry chase for days without ever recovering the deer. Those kinds of hits I would imagine account for a majority of unrecovered deer. And then the other wounding that involves errant gusts of wind, or deflections of unseen twigs and limbs (not every twig and limb can be seen over a 75 yard distance) can wind up in forward parts of the deer that often miss vitals and can cause unrecovered deer. And then there is always the just plain old "bad" shot that can happen to anyone. At 20 or 30 yards, that kind of hiccup may still wind up in lethal areas. At 75 - 100 yards, there is absolutely no allowance for anything other than perfection.

Yeah it's kind of like staring at a fish aquarium. It's all just interesting, and a bit relaxing.

I am extremely happy that we have just had a very safe season. And I am ecstatic that our county allowed the use of rifles for the first time this year. I am completely invested in that idea and spent a bunch of money on a deer rifle specifically because we can now use it for deer hunting .... and I love the results I had with it this year. However, let's not get all crazy and giddy over the results of just one year. Most of the new rifle counties are still in their infancy with the use of rifles. Here in Ontario County we only have this one year under our belt. I wonder how many people actually went out and bought a new rifle like I did. I know a lot of people have gobs of money tied up in their shotguns and rifle law or no rifle law they are still using their shotguns. Eventually the whole hunting culture will move to rifles, but I'm sure that hasn't happened yet even in counties that have had the rifle law for a few years already. I'm sure that a lot of rifle hunters are determined to show the nay-sayers that they were wrong. So, I think a lot of guys out there are still being very careful with their rifles, and I hope the respect for the increased range of these weapons continues to be impressed in their minds. I know that our rifle law like so many of them is a "trial" arrangement that will be made permanent in the future IF we don't have any incidents. I would hate to see people get so sold on this safety record that they begin to relax their safety standards become casual and careless about their target selections and backstop requirements. I could see this whole thing getting yanked back if the right kind of tragedy occurs due to some over-confidence.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that do irresponsible things with both gun and bow. But promoting a 75 or 100 yard bow-shot at live game, on a hunting forum probably is not the best thing to be doing. One simple un-expected casual step by the animal while the arrow is in flight can turn a perfect shot into a gut shot or worse at those distances. Unless you are able to read animal minds, I would always recommend against taking those kinds of shots. I have personally experienced, and seen countless video documentations that show exactly what the capabilities of deer are when it comes to moving out of the way of even the most perfect shots. Don't be promoting such nonsense on forums where somebody might actually take you seriously.

That's a pretty clever design. The only thing is that when you pull the door down in the middle of the night, it looks like you might knock your spouse out when it whacks her in the head ..... lol.

All I know is that I would not want to be the anti-gun representative assigned to debate him. The man does have a powerful reservoir of knowledge that he can pull out of that crazy mind at a second's notice. I have seen some pretty clever debaters that were totally destroyed by the fact that he combats their emotional arguments with cold hard facts and documentation. Piers Morgan comes to mind ..... totally destroyed by Nugent.

Old Ben Franklin was a pretty smart guy, and most likely he was dead on with this quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither." Notice how he went out of his way to specify temporary safety. That old "slippery slope" that so many people often talk about seems to have some relevance here. There are evil opportunities that are available and tempting to an over-zealous government when we start down that road of government monitoring and surveillance of citizenry. Just to put it all in today's perspective, how much of that surveillance power would you like to see a "President" Cuomo to have? It seems to me that it is quite prudent for individuals to control their urges to offer unlimited trust to the government regardless of the reasons.

Anyone who wants to see the relative degree of difficulty of any of the versions of shot placement can refer to a thread that consists of very complete pictures showing locations and sizes of the various lethal parts of a deer.

That's interesting. The gun has been made illegal to own without registration, but not the components that make it illegal. Right now it appears that an assault rifle that is dismantled to a certain level does not have to be registered. Am I understanding all that correctly? Does that mean that a anyone rejected by the background check could still order the components of a firearm and do the assembly at his leisure?

I'm still trying to figure out the origin of the name "titmouse".

I am not a guy who has shot a whole lot of rifles, but recently I was looking for a caliber for a rifle to use here in Ontario County. This past season was our first one where they allowed rifles rather than shotgun only. Recoils was a big deal for me because I wanted to be able to spend some time at the bench doing some intense target practice with it. What I wound up with after a whole lot of research and question-asking, was the American Ruger in .270 caliber. It is not exactly like shooting a .22, but there is almost no perceptible recoil. I can shoot that gun all day and never feel any kind of pain. And yet judging by the damage inflicted on the 2 deer that I shot, I have to say that I was impressed at what was going on at the business end. In fact, one of the deer may have suffered a bit of overkill as there was some meat lost. It was a "quartering to" kind of shot and the bullet entered the front shoulder and exited the rear ham. Probably not a very well thought out shot selection, but I really didn't expect the bullet to go that far diagonally through the deer. But anyway, I think the caliber selection was quite perfect. I have no doubt that it would really do a number on a bear. And here in NYS, that's about all it has to do.

There is an amazing quote that I ran into while following one of the links in the Daily News article in the original post. Check this out: "New York is indeed an expensive place, but experts say that alone doesn't explain a recent report that found the city's annual cost per inmate was $167,731 last year — nearly as much as it costs to pay for four years of tuition at an Ivy League university." What the hell is that all about? And now the jerk wants to add onto that the cost of importing college professors and creating classrooms. Come on.... there has to be a limit to his idiocy somewhere, isn't there?

So what is the stature of your girlfriend. I have seen some ladies that are very delicate, and have a hard time standing up against a stiff breeze. And then there are those that (I don't know how do I put this delicately) look like Russian meat-fighters, who could withstand either end of a 12 ga. shotgun. That may be a serious consideration as to whether you drop all the way back to .243, or get her involved in a more traditional but damaging caliber. Also, I am assuming that you are outfitting her for deer hunting. That is true isn't it?

I can hardly wait to hear our resident libs start defending this one ..... lol. Look, this all goes along the same lines that this idiot has been following forever. Screw those who attempt to conduct their lives in a fashion conducive to good citizenship, personal responsibility, and decency. Reward those that are the dregs of society. Do you have difficulty raising the cash to go to school? Do you foresee problems with repaying your student loans? Simply look for some illegal offence that will give you occupancy of about 4 or 5 years in one of our $60,000 per year per inmate lodgings and Uncle Andy will take care of you. You know, maybe all you guys that want to run away from NYS really do have the right answer. This place is circling the bowl.

If you want reliable, credible information on how or if such a transaction can take place, I would suggest that you contact the NYS police and ask how that is currently done. Make sure that you specify that it is your wife's gun and that she is the one who wants to perform the sale or trade.

Fear not everyone. When Andy gets done with this state, the population will be over-flowing. Potheads all over the country will be heading for NYS as soon as he gets things lined up for legalized recreational marijuana. And if that doesn't do it, we will be having a massive influx of muggers and rapists looking for that free education in prison. Can't afford a college education, or don't want to be faced with burdensome pay-back of college loans? .... just pick out some kind of crime that will get you about 4 years or so. The taxpayers will pick up the tab and Uncle Andy will fix you right up. The population will stabilize, it's just that the nature of the citizens will be considerably different

And don't be thinking that Remington is the only industry being forced out of the state by this governor and his anti-gun policies. American tactical is moving to South Carolina, Kahr Arms is heading for PA. and all Beikirch's expansion is heading for PA. And those are only the ones that I am aware of. The jobs, and sales and income tax money and all purchases of those potential employees ..... gone. This Governor has cost the state a pile of money, and for no good reason.

I think it is time for me to leave this thread alone. I find myself becoming more and more disgusted with hunters and gun owners who are now championing gun control, and I am sure that as a result I will eventually say something that I probably shouldn't.....lol.

This year was the most pleasant shooting experience of my deer-hunting life. Ontario County became another new county allowing rifle use for deer. This year I actually had an opportunity to sit down with my deer gun (.270) and actually spend considerable time doing lot of target practice with it. It was fun, and didn't result in a black & blue shoulder or flinching. Sighting in my deer gun was actually a pleasant and fun experience and not something to be dreaded. The old 12 ga. Ithaca may never come out again .... lol. The .270? .... two deer for two shots.

Lol .... Easy there Mike. We tend to let topics drift a bit without calling in the "topic police". If you are super concerned with topic purity, I would suggest that you at take a moment to at least scan the DEC bear management proposal just to show a little sincerity in your concern .... lol. It's not really all that long. Personally I think erussell's concern over bear predation of fawns is a legitimate comment on a topic involving a bear management plan.

Quote: " Why a New Stamp? Our Proposal:A Federal Wildlife Conservation Stamp would provide a robust, parallel revenue stream for National Wildlife Refuges, preserving habitat and wildlife — while also giving non-extractive users a funding tool and a stronger voice in habitat and wildlife decisions on our shared public lands. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That sounds like just what we want to have happen. By the way, I like that term "non-extractive users" .... lol. I guess I'm an "extractive user".

Somewhere I read that bears are a very underestimated cause of fawn predation.

Yes, there are a whole string of protections somewhere in the law that will eventually make someone pay for a tragedy (not necessarily prevent it). And that's one of the problems with our legal system. Instead of writing things out with the details included in the pertinent law, you are expected to wade through an armful of law books to figure out what the details are, instead of simply including it in the first place. When somebody reads that set-back law, I want them to read the other relative verbiage at the same time.