Doc

You've got that right! And that's why I keep on writing. If nothing else, I get the satisfaction of letting them know that somebody out here is paying attention.....lol.

Is that right that bullet weight alone can establish a "best balance of trajectory, energy, and performance"? I would have thought that such optimum specs would be some kind of combination of bullet weight, powder/powder volumes, and even primers. Or am I mis-understanding something here.

Unfortunately, the devil is in the details, and so is my pro or con opinion on the general acceptance of any of the major bullets of their planned changes. I can't just make up assumptions and then say that everything will come out right. Naturally, I will be drafting letters of opinion to send to the DEC and legislators with any concerns that I have. However, I know from such past efforts not to expect miracles .

Unfortunately, I find myself starting to slide into that reality. I'm trying to fight it, but lets face it, I don't really have that many years of hunting left in me. So little of all this has a personal impact on what hunting days I have left. But the future is getting quite clear. I won't make any predictions as to how many generations before it all disappears or heads into insignificance. But even while staring that scenario of hunting decline right in the face, I still have this desire to see outdoor activities last well after me, and for me to be thought well of for having invested so much of my life in hunting, fishing, and trapping and all the other peripheral activities outdoors, So it does bother me to see it all heading down the drain. However, you are absolutely correct. The time will eventually come that the people of future generations are going to take on the destiny and direction of hunting. I just wish I could see some small sign that that is actually going to happen.

If all seasons go to the DMP system, they would have to change the dates to allow early season hunters (Bow) to get their DMPs in time for opening day. Why wouldnt they change the dates? And just where did you read that bit of information? I'd have to agree, they would need to make it earlier, it would only make sense. And the 2nd leftover deal should be moved up as well. Ok then, I'll ask you the same question: where did you read that bit of info? frankly, I can only base my opinions on what I see written. If it's not in current law or stated in that 5 year plan, then it doesn't exist. I'm not going to get into the game of wishful thinking or hoping that maybe for the first time the DEC might begin to engage in logical thinking.

If all seasons go to the DMP system, they would have to change the dates to allow early season hunters (Bow) to get their DMPs in time for opening day. Why wouldnt they change the dates? And just where did you read that bit of information?

Apparently it has skipped the attention of a lot of us, but the major factor in the decline of hunting is a social and cultural shift that is turning toward technological trinkets and urbanization and away from activities and interests of natural pursuits. There continues to be a change in the societal view of consumptive activities such as hunting, fishing and trapping. Much more interest is invested in the latest cool electronic gadget or game or other items that you can sit on the couch and have entertain you. It's not just a little change either, but rather an accelerating one. People are not interested in what they now view as low-brow, uncouth activities that require the exertion and discomfort of mucking around out in the wild. Changing all that involves a lot more than hunter attitudes or dragging kids out in the woods for a special weekend hunt. We are talking about a cultural change that involves a complete indoctrination of our youth. And that at a time when even the adults are opting for this techno-religion. Hiking, camping, and other things that focus on nature and the historical traditions of self reliance must again be emphasized before hunting, fishing and trapping will again gain acceptance and growth. Now that's not a nice little one-liner solution like we are so fond of, but it is the only thing that will truly turn things around. Of course all of this really amounts to just another way of saying that the popularity of hunting will continue to slide because none of it has the support of parents and requires much more parental lifestyle change than they are willing to undergo. It's too bad, but the demise of outdoor activities is just another evolutionary change. At the very least we must prepare for the face of hunting to change significantly until one day we will no longer recognize it as what we once did. The best we can do is to stall the end as much as possible, and keep trying to avoid having the activity bastardized to the point where even we chose to abandon it.

Seems logical to me. But that isn't in the 5-year plan. Maybe that's because it's too logical..... ;D

It doesn't matter. There is a certain rejection rate assumed when the lottery is set up (otherwise it wouldn't be a lottery would it?). So there are some percentage of hunters that will get rejected simply because it is a lottery system. In fact, hunting in 8N which is always "high" in terms of chances to be drawn, I have had several years when I did not get selected, and I also know others who have had the same thing happen. It was just the nature of a lottery. And then there was the traditional permit "give-away" after the lottery finally closes. And by the way, there were a lot of WMUs that had that "over-rejection" thing going. For bowhunters without the either/or tag, most of their season would be spent without the ability to take a doe even though there were really plenty of permits that the DEC wanted taken. As far as changing the closing date for the lottery, that probably won't be happening.

Well, that's partly true. Of course everyone seems to want to ignore my comment about the traditional "over-rejection" that has permits almost free for the grabbing that occurs after the lottery closes and is always after bow season has long been underway. So maybe the chance at those permits is not quite as equal.

Lol..... The archery season and all that it contains certainly does seem to be the prize that everyone all of a sudden seems to want. It has made a prime target lately.

Sorry, but that is exactly what any game of chance that involves winners and losers is.... competition. You don't have to like it but then it wasn't me that devised the system that turns DMP issuance into a game of chance where all hunters compete for for the right to hunt does.

I am speaking way beyond my actual knowledge now, but it sounds like a big difference between hydro-fracking and conventional oil well drilling involves some of the nasty concoctions that they use in the hydro-fracking process. Gas mining is no longer a case of "drill until you locate something to pump" like it used to be, or like oil drilling. It sounds like some of this soup that they are injecting into the well is a bit like playing with fire in the fact that mistakes appear to beuncompromising in terms of permanent pollution. And then there is the fact that the underground structure is not only simply having a hole poked into it, but is being smashed area-wide around the well location. I think I can well imagine how that might have a tendency to mix gas and water. Anyway, I don't think there is a valid comparison in potential damage between oil drilling (and old methods of gas drilling) and this new process. That thought may come from just plain ignorance of the details of these processes, or perhaps a real assessment of how they can impact our lives and the lives of those that come after us. Of course when we consider the dangers of off-shore oil drilling, we have recently seen the havoc that mistakes in that process can cause. But that just points up the fact that no matter how much regulation and oversight that we supply, mistakes resulting in environmental catastrophes still happen. Perhaps that just serves as another warning that we should be heeding.

Culver- I am just putting myself in the shoes of a landowner who has just been told that he and his family have been drinking a diet of carcinogens, or who has been told that his water supply is contaminated and that his land is now worthless because it's now toxic. Or maybe the guy whose glass of drinking water accidentally catches fire .... lol. Why am I looking at it from that standpoint? Because I or someone I know could be that landowner. Of course I'm concerned. And when the cash begins to over-rule the rights of a person to pure water, or the expectation that the government should be concerned about environmental experimentation, I begin to wonder if our values may not be a bit upside-down. How much cash, corporate profits and economic prosperity does access to pure water cost?

Judging from the way he is holding his right leg, and the length of his tail, and the fact that it is 65 degrees F, I would have to say that he is between 760 and 782 days old. I generally have a plus or minus 11 day margin of error on my estimates.

I'm glad you have decided to discontinue the dictionary game. I got the feeling you weren't really reading my replies anyway, so that wasn't really going anywhere. And how does your last question relate to what the bowhunting community has achieved for the sport over the past decades? I'm scratching my head looking for the relevance. Are you implying that if there are any of us that didn't have direct hands-on responsibility for the advances that have been made in bowhunting that we should therefore be deprived of them or that they are somehow invalidated? That certainly would be a strange kind of argument.

Lol ..... I almost forgot what the original topic was all about . Looking back, I find some of the results of the survey that was originally referred to, kind of appalling, but not terribly surprising given the torture that the educational system has undergone over the years. I can't think of any system that has become such fertile grounds for constant blind experimentation and churning. Whether we are talking about discipline, order or curriculum, it's great to be a bit progressive in approaches to education, but how about hanging on to a few fundamentals here and there?

You are absolutely right. I have watched a red-tailed hawk working my lower field. He is absolutely flawless. He never misses. The rabbits are lured out in the field at dusk to eat the grass and Mr. Hawk sits in the top of a big old cherry tree where he can see the whole field. When the rabbit is far enough out into the field, he comes down and like I said, he just never misses. I've watched hawks and owls in the woods looking for squirrels, but they aren't quite as good at that. Those squirrels are quick and tricky. They also have their audible warnings that put the whole bunch of them on alert. Over the decades, I have watched the hawk and owl population explode everywhere. Quite possibly they are simply out-of-control and having the predictable effect on prey species. However, don't be expecting any 5-year plans that will promote hunting these species...... That ain't going to happen.

I have to say that deer management is a whole lot easier than small game management. if we think the DEC has a credibility problem when it comes to deer population estimates and targeting, just imagine if they were to try to come up with a number of squirrels per acre ..... lol. About the only management scheme for small game that I think might have some impact would be predator control, and that doesn't seem to be very popular at the DEC right now. They seem to be more interested in protecting every predatory species in some cases, total protection.

Oh listen to Mr. Dictionary ..... lol. Any time I enter into a game of chance where I have a possibility of losing out to others, its a competition. And while there are many today who keep trying to tinker with the rules of bow season bow season to make it more like a gun season, there were many good reasons that bowhunters worked for and were granted the benefits and rules that we have today and I am not as eager to throw these hard earned benefits away as some.

I don't know why they always use that qualifier, "if done properly". We all know that there will be a certain number of cases where it is not done properly. The more wells, the larger the odds of environmental disaster and the greater the odds for some landowner having his land value plummet to zero. The criteria should include, "what are the consequences for innocent bystanders now and in the future if it is not done properly". Or, "is it possible to make the process fool-proof so it is safe even when government regulations fail to control the process". Or "Let's first discuss how we are going to guarantee that this process will happen properly before approving anything". Instead we are dealing with an attitude of "Let's cross our fingers and hope that all is well, and if an occasional accident should happen ....... oh well .... too bad for the neighborhood. : They really take that saying quite seriously: "You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette" .... lol.

Yes, there are several advantages that bowhunters get over gun hunters including their own season and an either sex tag. There are reasons for all that and that is why we have to fork out additional money for the priviledge of hunting with a bow or muzzleloader.

Yes ..... a lottery is a competition.

The competition involved is in another whole batch of additional lottery participants. It's just like any lottery, more participants means more chances to be rejected. From a bowhunter's standpoint those odds are significantly higher than they are right now. For the gunners, they too may see some extra rejections because of the bowhunters and muzzleloaders selection success. The fact that it is a "lottery" means there are some losers. I have yet to see any kind of lottery (including the DMP drawing) where everyone is accepted. And also, you are ignoring what has become a traditional over-rejection rate with the now-usual freebies that don't become available until the lottery has ended. Typically that happens at a date that would be well into bow season. So yes, just like any lottery there is competition with winners and losers. And unfortunately the bowhunters are left out of some of that as I just explained.

I am a great fan of getting exercise doing useful things. So the homestead provides a lot of projects even though some may consider a lot of it "make-work". However, I must say that as stated before, we do a lot of just plain walking (not along the road). It's an activity that the wife and I can do together. I also have a killer hill to climb. And when I say "Killer Hill" I mean that literally. Our next door neighbor had his heart give out while climbing that one. When winter gets here, we will be also going to the YMCA on a regular basis. These exercise things are not really optional for me, so I do tend to push it a bit.