Doc

Let's face it ...... they are nothing but goats. They'll eat anything.

I don't think the DEC can afford to man these check stations anyways. Most likely that is why finding any kind of check station today is pretty darn rare. I think if they made that part of the mandatoy reporting system, nobody would comply with that either because they would be so few and far between.

I wonder why the DEC doesn't re-implement the party concept in some of these areas where they have totally cut off the permits. Remember the days when some places had to have 4 or 5 guys to a permit. Yes it was a pain in the butt, but I would think that in these few WMUs where permits have been eliminated it would be better to share a permit with others than to simply have year after year of no chance at all. Yeah I know, who could afford the software changes to the DECALS computers for just those few WMUs ......

growalot- Why don't you do a super-test for us of some of these scent-killer products on that billy-goat of yours. If it works there, it would work anywhere. .....Good idea ....eh?

And yet another good point. I have noticed how a branch or a twig that shows up good in full daylight starts losing definition as the light fades toward sunset. Sometimes we think we have a good clear shooting lane. But lower the light a bit and try to spot every little twig and branch at 50 or 60 yards or more.

I've had only one time when rattling almost worked for me. I was in a bit of a thick area and just caught sight of the rear end of a buck exiting the area after he snuck in within 40 yards of me and got my wind (or saw me, I'm not sure which). After a whole lot of other attempts, I decided that my time in the woods would be better spent just being quiet rather than making a whole bunch of noise with rattling horns. I'm probably due to try it again just to see if I can get lucky. I do still hear some occasional stories of where the tactic has worked for some. And of course it is a regular theme of a lot of deer hunting shows on TV.

By golly, this forum seems to attract some super talented photo artists. I just love looking at some of the pictures that you guys are posting here. Congratulations on being so damned good at what you do!

Actually, I have made a lot of long shots. I used to shoot NFAA field archery and one of the targets was at 80 yards. There were also shots past 50 yards and they were great fun. I still like to shoot long distances at targets on an archery range. So I do understand what capabilities people can have at long distances with a bow on an archery range at a stationery target. That really has nothing to do with hunting conditions and live animals that have the capability of moving at any minute. But, you are right. The distance that a person wishes to shoot is completely up to them. And the consequences that may or may not result are completely on them. And I am assuming that bad results will actually bother them so they are supposedly motivated to make good choices. But every time this discussion comes up, all I hear is what people can do at the archery range like that's the only consideration. Frankly that's not the only consideration and its not even the most important consideration (in my opinion). But all I can do is to bring up the points against super long shots as I see them and after that, as you say, the final decision is really up to them.

Here is a DEC webpage that lists phone numbers for information on all kinds of required classes. http://www.dec.ny.go...tdoor/9188.html Also, there is a page that gives county reps from the NYS trappers association. They may be able to supply answers to any other kinds of questions you may have. Perhaps you may even want to join. I did notice that there are some counties that don't have any reps yet, so you may have to use which ever one is available and close. http://www.nystrappers.org/county_reps.html

I would try to pressure the DEC a bit more for assistance in locating a class. It's probably just a case of locating someone there that is willing to be helpful. They have to be able to tell you where and when the next available class is someplace that's not too far away......... I would hope.

Eventually those Madison Avenue types will have us talked into buying some kind of "pod" that seals in our scent and has a remote controlled bow or gun mounted outside of it.... . I've got to say that I don't believe there is any limit as to what the hunting public will buy and some shyster will sell. We may be the most gullible consumers going, second only to fishermen.

It would be interesting to put a few drops of deer urine next to the trail strategically located to see if that might cause them to pause in an ideal spot. In fact I have wondered about using the same technique while hunting a trail to get the deer to pause for the shot. I keep saying I've got to try that, but never seem to remember to do it. I never did like that bleat imitation that some guys use to stop deer, and have been looking for an alternative way of doing that.

Yeah, SD cards are relatively cheap, and there is nothing faster than simply swapping cards. But don't do like I did once, and lose track of which one you took out vs. the empty one that is to be put in. There's nothing worse than standing there looking at one card in your right hand and the other in your left hand and not knowing which one was the empty one. I think it's an age thing. I took a chance figuring the worst that could happen is more pictures would be added onto the old card. Fortunately I had a 50-50 chance and took home the right one.

I have two home-made sights that use 3 "ring" - pins on each one. It was made from a pair of old Cobra sights. The last picture below shows the cobra pin modifications. The theory is that concentricity is the easiest thing for the eye to establish. So the ring (about 5/32" dia.) is centered in the peep sight aperture, and the target is centered in the ring. It all becomes second nature. In fact those of us that use a peep sight are already using the theory of "centering". What I have found is that there is a real advantage to not having some ball on the end of the pin that covers up the center of the target that I am shooting at. Advantage #2 is the fact that the ring and whatever is in the center of it are very easy to see in diminished light, so there is no concerns about fiber optics or other lighting systems. I have used this sight since the early 80's, and it works well for me. Unfortunately, it is nowhere on the market or is it likely to be in the near future. So anyone interested in a good winter project might try coming up with something like this. The bad news is that a winter project will not be helping you out with your immediate need for this year. I'm sure that others will have some good recommendations.

How long would it take to get enough squirrels to have a squirrel-brain dinner?

I can't tell you a whole lot about the lives and attitudes back in 1873. I'm old, but not that old ..... ha-ha. However, I definitely can tell you that for a lot of people today, Sunday is 1/2 of the only available time away from work that they have for hunting. In fact with mandatory overtime and mandated Saturday work-days, Sunday may very well be the only time available. Corporate down-sizing has placed an enormous burden on those few workers that remain and while some of us may have unlimited freedom when it comes to vacation planning, there are many more that don't, especially if they are to have any family life at all. As far as farmer attitudes, I will always remember the time back in the 80's when I went down to PA to bowhunt. On one of the properties that we asked for and were granted permission to hunt, as we were walking away, I heard the guy muttering under his breath, "I hope they get them all". That kind of gave me a picture of how some of the more realistic farmers down there view hunters. I truly believe that this guy and the few others that we approached viewed us as allies in their battle against deer damage. I definitely get the feeling that if a Sunday was interupted by some shots in the woods, you might just see them break out in a big grin.

I'm not sure who in that state is negotiating the issue on behalf of the hunters ..... if anyone. But I suspect that they are probably no more organized than we are and probably for the same reasons. So most likely the only opinions and pressure that is being applied is by the HSUS people. I doubt that you will see any "giving a little to get a little" other than the hunters doing all the giving and the antis doing all the taking.

I think deer become conditioned to associate the sound of chainsaws with food in areas where logging is being conducted. I have heard the same stories from our local loggers. I also think they learn, or have a sense about what kinds of activity indicate danger. I have seen deer simply move off a ways when an ATV rides by and watch until the ATV passes. But stop that ATV and watch what that deer does. Suddenly it is perceived as a serious threat. The loggers that are busy working may be having the same effect.

I have to admit that there is not enough proof out there to cause me to invest in cover scents. It's just one of those things that are almost impossible to prove one way or another. It seems that there are lots of people hawking products that force you to rely on their word, or the effectiveness of their marketing campaign. The problem is that scent is not something you can see or measure.

I totally understand that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally.

Trapping is an activity that will test your understanding of woodslore and knowledge of animals. It takes all the aspects of hunting and then adds one more restriction ..... that being that you have to know the exact spot where an animal will walk and/or place it's foot. Now that's a pretty intimate knowledge of your prey. It's pretty darn satisfying when you can become good at walking into strange territory and successfully figuring out where these critters are going to put their foot. That takes a pretty sophisticated knowledge of the animal you intend to catch. Not only all that, but you have to be able to go in and dig, touch, re-arrange and create all kinds of sets without having the set-up look or smell disturbed or in anyway un-natural. To be that close to an exact spot where an animal is going to pass without leaving any warning trace behind is quite a trick in itself. In short, trapping is a challenge laden activity that is equalled by very few other outdoor activities (if any).

I think this is a good question. My gut feel is that the stainless barrel probably would have no effect on your hunting. But then, maybe somebody has had experiences that prove otherwise.

Well, I'm certainly not out to convince the world either pro or con when it comes to long shots. I am simply pointing out that there are more things to consider when taking long shots than just marksmanship. And I get the feeling that that thought seems to get lost in these discussions. I would guess that more than a few bowhunters think that whatever they can do with a stationery target on the controlled conditions of an archery range is exactly what they can do in a hunting situation with a target that is capable of moving at any second. I'm just suggesting that you might want to question that thought just a little bit.

Lol ..... It doesn't matter. All the couch-side techno-toys have killed off that activity already and a lot of similar outdoor activities and pastimes.

Unlike outdoorsmen and women who can come up with more damned excuses for not joining any hunter or gun advocate organizations, it seems that the anti-hunting wackos (and the anti-gun idiots) aren't afflicted by this demand that every position of their organizations has to be exactly the same as theirs or they will pick up their toys and stay home. So surprise-surprise, it turns out that we as simply a disorganized mob, are being out-spent, and under-represented and being out maneuvered more times than we would like to pull our heads out of the sand and actually see. That's why I often sound so darned pessimistic about the future of hunting. And in terms of hunters doing it to hunters, we have had more than a few threads on this forum that illustrate how determined we are to keep ourselves disorganized ...... probably one of the greatest gifts to the anti-hunters and anti-gunners that we could possibly give them.