Doc

What you described is the deer's number one defense. Once they detect the hunter invasion (and it doesn't have to mean being shot at), they figure out that it is much safer to hunker down and stay put and just let hunters walk on by. Also, I have seen situations where you almost have to kick them in the butt to get them to move. I remember one buck that I got a few years back that thought he was pulling off this "sitting tight" defense technique just perfectly. At 30 yards he was kind of hunkered into a grape vine and brush tangle. What he didn't take into consideration was that we had just had the first snow of the year ..... ;D . He thought that just like all the other times that he just laid there and let hunters just walk past, it would work just nicely one more time. It probably would have except apparently he didn't realize how totally silhouetted he was against the snow. Not a real swift thing on that particular day, but he did tip me off to how these deer appear to be swallowed up. Since that time, I have learned the proper use of binoculars in examining every square inch of what is ahead of me as I move into the wind at a painfully slow pace. An antler tine, that distinctive pattern of a deer muzzle, the outline of a tail, an ear, they are always visible to a hunter who is moving slow enough and constantly scanning every lump and bump that's out in front of him. Of course those that simply hunker down at the base of a tree and sit all day will swear that there isn't a deer in the woods. My gun season stands are used only on opening day or any other major hunting day when I expect hunters and deer to be moving. My gun hunting philosophy is to do exactly the opposite of what I expect most of the other hunters will be doing. If they are walking (or driving), I sit. If they are sitting I walk. Doc

I don't even go up on the hill for just a walk without my cell-phone, and I always check the charge level before going out the door. We have a tower right across the valley in plain sight. I have some special reasons for that being a necessary safety precaution, but it really makes sense for anyone of any age. If you get into places where the phone signal is not adequate, well, so be it. Not much you can do about that. But most of the time the phone service is there and might just be a life-saver. I don't ever want to be at the mercy of someone understanding what my 3-shot volley is supposed to mean .... lol. I am truly amazed that it actually worked this time. Doc

Ha-ha ..... Isn't that amazing? you used to be able to buy a high end bow for $150. The whole bow!! :

The idea of land management to the DEC is putting in a parking lot or two, and hanging some boundary signs. Oh, and occasionally putting up some signs along the road with the name of the particular parcel. We have a chunk of state land that has some old farm fields that they use to keep mowed once a year. This year they even skipped that. I noticed that the boundary signs are falling down and not being replaced. I wouldn't be looking for any of that to improve. Even if they wanted to, where would the money come from? Even the logging operations require DEC personel to administer the activity and they are chopping all of those guys. That ain't going to happen. Those guys are just trying to hang on to what's left of their jobs. We're watching the department crumbling right before our eyes. They are dying a slow death of starvation. Don't be expecting to get any blood out of that stone.

This is not something new. The deer always do their disappearing act during gun season. They really know how to pull it off, especially when there are no hunters in the woods, or on the few days the hunters do show up they just sit at the base of a tree all day and expect miracles.

When I was a kid, we didn't even lock the door on the house when we left. Things sure have changed haven't they.

No, I think he meant that he can not fill them in (as in bulldoze the dirt back in) for ten years.

My daughter is driving up to Rochester tomorrow morning. What are the conditions like up there? Keep an eye on it. Winds have turned out of the north and some time Sunday, some heavy lake effect snows are supposed to be dropping down from Lake Ontario and giving us some accumulations. Doc

Yes, I have heard that statement before, even though it absolutely defies logic. I have never seen the study that supposedly proves that theory, and I believe that where I first saw that stated was in a newspaper letter to the editor written by a clearly anti-hunting person who was appalled at the local coyote hunting contest.... : . However, I keep an open mind on the subject and if someone can show me a credible study that actually proves that "hunting coyotes makes more coyotes", I am willing to listen. Doc

Isn't "lake effect" grand?? :

Yes, I would imagine that the situation is different depending on where you are hunting. The differences that I am looking at also cover a rather long number of decades (A bit more than 5 of them to be exact) also. So I most likely have seen a more stark difference that a lot of people. Also, all of my years of hunting have happened on the same few hundred acres so I am in a unique situation to see changes to the exact same acreage over that long time span. But there is no doubt that NY is a big and diverse state, and there is very little that can be said universally about any aspect of hunting across all corners of the state. However, here we are once again on a Saturday (which should be one of the busier days) and the state parking lots are almost empty and I have only heard a couple of shots way off in the distance all day so far. That is not even close to anything you would have seen even 10 or 20 years or so ago. Doc

Everything needs some form of control. Let's face it other than disease and human predation, the coyote is at the top of its food chain and really has no other controlling species to contain their numbers. I really don't like disease to be the population containment system. It's Mother Natures method, but it can be a pretty ugly way to go in the wild. So, as hunters, I think we have some level of responsibility to do our part. Besides, the challenge is tremendous. What you do with the hide is a personal matter, but I really prefer to put it to some use (not that I get piles and piles of them ....lol). Also, I know there are people who will use it even if you do not want to. However, I wouldn't get too hung-up about somebody just letting the carcass lay. We don't worry about rat carcasses if we go the dump to shoot them. I never heard anybody get all excited about woodchuck remains, or crows, etc., etc. I'm not really sure why people get all bent out of shape about a coyote being shot and left. It must be the "doggy" thing ..... lol.

I do think that internet and TV (and magazines) put hunter expectations ridiculously high and I would guess that some of that gets reflected in what looks like today's half-hearted efforts and participation in deer hunting. However, I think there are many other forces at work such as competing activities, and a general culture change toward hunting. This is not something that I have just recently noticed, but over the past decade or two there has been changes in the activity lebel that seems to get worse every year, and it really has nothing to do with deer numbers. Doc

Yeah, that's why I made it a bowhunting only poll. I think a lot more people than just you split their hunting locations based on whether they are bow hunting or gun hunting. I would guess it's a safety thing. I don't know.

Ha-ha ... how are you going to see what happens if you pull the cameras?

No, I think the more accepted term that I've seen used is "cross-gun". Let's get it right folks!....

That's actually good news. If the crunchy snow can't be melted away and replaced with a quieter variety of snow, the next best thing is for it to be covered up with new snow . Doc

But the question is: is the lack of shooting or hunting activity due to scarcity of deer, or crappy weather, or is it really a sign of reduced hunter participation? Is this the first year that you all have noticed a continued quieting of seasons or have you all like me noticed that every year the hunting crowd gets smaller and the shooting gets less regardless of the deer population. What I don't know is if this is a local phenomenon or whether other areas of the state are experiencing it. My theory is that the number of hunters is shrinking slightly every year, but what is shrinking even faster is the actual participation and enthusiasm of those that are left. I seem to see an awful lot of 1-day hunters or 1/2 day hunters. The numbers of cars of hunters at state parking lots, along the road, and in local driveways seems to be only a tiny percent of what they used to be. And of course there are the changes in the amount of shooting on days that were typically hopping with hunter activity that many have already commented on. That is only a theory that is based on observations in a very small area. What do you all think? Are today's hunters becoming less active and enthused? Doc

Chocolate ...... chocolate ....... chocolate tapioca (even better) ...... chocolate with whipped cream on top (really good) ..... chocolate ........ no instant!!! ...... chocolate!!! Much better tasting than antlers ..... ha-ha. ;D

I have a massive database that spans almost 30 years that has been obsoleted many times in terms of useful data. There are patterns that seem to last a few years but in every case dissappear or get modified severely due to forces that I cannot always identify. Some of the reasons for shifting patterns are obvious, such as maturing of brushlots into more mature growth, severe ice storms that physically blocked some areas and trails, changing food sources, massive changes in land use (hikers, bikers, small game hunters, etc.) and other more subtle pattern interrupters. also there are pattern changes that have no obvious reasons whatever other than perhaps just a different generation of deer with different needs. I no longer use my database in any analytical way because most of the info has been obsoleted over the years. Yes, I suppose the cameras are just one more thing that can change patterns (probably temporarily if all else stays the same). But one thing I have come to accept is that cameras or not, there will always be changes, and scouting in an annual fashion is always required to stay in touch with those changes and the latest generation of deer that use the area. Doc

Dark chocolate pudding (cooked style .... not instant) is by far my favorite. I can eat it until I get sick! Off topic but I don't care.

In our little corner of the state, one of the worst things imaginable has happened. That sloppy wet snow on Wednesday froze and like Culvercreek said, it froze and has turned to a loud, crunchy, mess that you simply can't walk on without broadcasting your arrival way ahead of you. Further, that is likely to stay that way unless it gets buried under a whole lot more snow. On these days that have no one out there moving deer around, when you take away the effectiveness of still-hunting, there aren't a whole lot of practical options left. The only thing I can think of is drives. I don't know what other parts of the state have this same noisey situation, but it will be a real handicap here for guys that still have tags to fill. Doc

That was what the last category was trying to indicate. I realized that there may be some that get kind of close to 50-50 so I figured that I should include a choice that handled that. My hunting is somewhat mixed too, but in my situation, the overwhelming amount of my deer bowhunting occurs on state land. So based on the "most" qualifier, I put down state land. The one selection that is surprising me a bit is the low number of people who hunt as guests on friend's, relative's or other people's land (permission from farmers as one example). I would have expected that one to be much higher. The selection that involves wide open private land is no surprise since there is almost no such land anymore ...... lol. It will be interesting to see if these trends change as time goes on and more people participate.

I was checking mine every day ..... lol. It got kind of addicting.

There is a bit of a pattern starting that shows that most of the people on this forum own, lease, or in some way have complete control of the land that they hunt. Also, I am surprised how it is beginning to look like fewer people are using state land. I know state public land has gotten some pretty bad press in terms of hunting conditions and safety and maybe people are starting to feel that if they are going to hunt it will be on their own land or not at all. During gun season, I have noticed fewer and fewer people hunting the land that I hunt. That is a big change from just a couple decades ago. Sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. Bow season is still pretty crowded, and not just with bowhunters either. I wish there was some way to expand this poll outside of the forum just to see if there are some actual shifting patterns as far as public land usage is concerned.