Doc

No really, when I said I don't think there is much point in trying to hold any further conversations with you on this, I meant it. Doc

We have a ravine that is about 200' deep with some very steep shale walls. Basically, unless you are familiar with rock-climbing equipment, you are not going down there. It is further boxed in with two waterfalls. The bottom one is 90' (straight down no way around) the upper one is about 30' - 40' (almost straight up). If a deer goes over the edge, it's just plain gone. I remember shooting a doe that I thought was far enough away from the edge, but didn't realize that when they are on a pretty good slope they can slide real nice on snow even after they are dead. No, she didn't make it to the edge, but only because I was pretty darn quick getting down there. But steve863's comment kind of reminded me of this area and that particular incident. It could have been ugly. However, I do know that even with the best intentions, it is possible to have a deer wind up in an unretrievable location.

Here's the problem with those kinds of decisions. In our area the weatherman on all 4 local stations plus the weather station were saying the same thing. Guess what ...... They were wrong. I don't hunt where the weathermen are forecasting ..... lol. The day featured a very, very light drizzle for part of it and no wind at all. Hey, I do the same thing. I listen to all the nifty scientific meteorologic jargon and kind of believe what they are saying (like a fool) and plan my hunting accordingly. I generally wind up cursing those guys out too. It's probably always a good idea to have alternate plans in case they blow it. Flopped on the couch may or may not be a good alternative ;D

You're right. Of course we all focus on hunting lawbreakers and ethically-challenged (lol... I just made that one up) since this is a hunting forum, but your point is absolutely correct. We like to beat ourselves up as having the only slobs and lowlifes in society but of course we are only representative of our own percentage of society in general. If hunters seem to be getting more selfish and self-centered in our attitudes it is only because we represent a certain percentage of a society that is doing exactly the same.

I do apologize. My mistake. Of course a .17 caliber is a rimfire. I must have had a brain-cramp It happens every so often. :-[ Doc

What can you say about an incident like this that hasn't been said everytime another shooting takes place. The saddest part about all of this is that I am no longer surprised or shocked. It has happened way too many times for that kind of reaction. Every year we wait for the news reports of who shot who. We shake our heads and we curse and swear at the ignorance and recklessness, and we try to express the proper level of outrage. And yet we all know that the next year, no matter what we finally manage to say, there will be a new list with new victims. It all boils down to the fact that hunter safety really is an individual state of mind. You can teach the fundamentals of safety, but there will always be a certain number of people who feel they know better, and that such things can never happen to them. They will laugh at your suggestions of safety. They will go out of their way to prove that hunting mishaps only happen to the other guy and that they needn't worry about such things themselves. I guess that's just human nature and you can't teach, cajole, or persuade "human nature". Doc

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Of course, that's exactly what I have been trying to do on several occasions, only to be met with obfuscations that are nothing but baseless accusations of spinning and twisting words, and quite frankly I don't think there is much point in trying to hold any further conversations with you on this. My only hope is that there are not too many people who share your flawed logic about trying to cover the perceived and exaggerated shortcomings of bows by introducing more stuff into bow season. I know you insist that somehow that logic magically stops at crossbows, but quite frankly you know as well as I do that for many people who are eager to force access into bowseasons, that it does not.

Trying to determine ownership of the deer based on "first killing shot" can get into all kinds of complications. Obviously if the deer is on it's feet hours after it is first shot, It's going to take some kind of forensic study to determine how "lethal" that first shot was. I have never had an issue with this because in my mind if some guy is blood trailing the deer, I have no problem with putting the thing down and handing the deer over to him. I don't know whether that is right or wrong .... legally or morally required or not, but to me it just feels like the right thing to do.

Just a word about your reference to people coming in and buying .17 caliber rifles for big-game. Obviously they should know better, but also, one would think that the law would have set some kind of minimum requirement on caliber size ...... they have not. Center fire is all that is used to describe a legal deer rifle in NYS. :

I would think that going afield without any weapons, and taking Fido out for a little exercise and a walk probably wouldn't be doing anything illegal.

So somebody, somewhere must have the info complete with details. I know when I was looking for info on blaze orange relationships to hunting accidents, there was info available but it was not as current as I would have liked it. I'll have to go back and see what the sources were that were listed.

A good portion of the season has had screwed up weather. But then thinking back on other years, I can remember quite a few ugly years, some cases even the gun season opener was nearly un-huntable. Let's face it, this time of the year is just plain nasty. I went down to the state land parking lot this morning and it was empty. I kind of figured that at least one or two brave souls would be out taking advantage of his last opportunity to score. Maybe everyone got their deer already and are done ...... lol. The funny thing is that here in my area it really didn't turn out that bad. The rain has been very, very light and basically no wind at all. If I wasn't tagged out, this would be a very promising hunting day. We still have snow on the ground (but it's going fast). I think guys have just had enough for this year. Maybe some are holding out for the muzzleloader season.

I keep hearing these hunting fatality reports and otherhunter wounding incidents dribbling out with different ones being reported here and there. I have to wonder if anyone ever publishes a season long tally of all of the states deaths and other incidents. Anyone who has ever tried to find a final tally of such info usually finds it pretty hard to come by and published totals always seem to be different depending on the news source. In previous years I have found that even DEC news releases seem to vary. So if anyone was interested in knowing the full extent of such incidents and what the surrounding circumstances actually are, does anyone know of a credible place that keeps track of such things?

It would be interesting to see just what the difference is between the raw data and the final published data. Interesting but probably not all that useful. I think the post data-gathering processing is a pretty big deal and probably a lot more complicated than we imagine. I realize that raw report data is terribly incomplete and probably meaningless without the massaging techniques. I think a lot of the early reporting has to wait for the establishment of the calculated "reporting rate" and who knows what else that has to be gathered, calculated and baked into the formula. That's why I am always a bit surprised at how quickly they begin making comments about the season and actually start publishing early harvest trends. Doc

Kind of makes you wonder what kinds of weapons they were storing there .... Has anybody checked to see if those white deer glow in the dark?

But on the positive side ....... look at all the extra meat he got from this deer. sorry .... ;D

I guess I don't know what the previous two replies are referring to. Just a random, "attacking" kind of comment I guess. But the fact is the only thing I was commenting on was the promptness of the remarks regarding opening weekend harvests. I really didn't say anything about the report being up, down, or sideways. So I have no idea what those last two replies were referring to. Doc

I believe there are identifying weapons limitations and other special regulations involved in the muzzleloader seasons as well. I'm not sure if that's how you are using the term or not. As far as the NYB, I have had disagreements with the leadership there in the past and have had some pretty heated discussions with them. However, like all such organizations, things don't always go my way and eventually I have to decide whether to abandon the only effective bowhunter advocacy group in NYS and just let seasons and regulations and other matters relating to bowhunting be determined by others including those who have shown a certain level of open hostility toward bowhunters. I have had my problems with some of the positions of the NRA also, but just as with the NYB, I have chosen to maintain membership based on the benefits that they provide the sport and the fact that when organized, we have some voice and without organization we have none. I suppose everyone has to decide whether the benefits out-weigh the disagreements in any organization we consider belonging to. That's a personal decision. Doc

That's why surprise inspections and testing would be required. It's kind of like that old no-tresspassing sign: "This property is protected by a pack of vicious dogs three days a week ...... You guess which days." Make the fines something that gets their attention, and just the threat of a surprise test would keep them honest.

Regarding the illegal baiting situation, a few pictures of the bait sites and and a trip to the nearest ECO or regional DEC headquarters with details and I think that problem could be ended before the end of the day. Doc

Hey! those aluminum arrows still fly great. However I'm not giving any away. I have one other trait that I have cultivated over the years ....... I'm cheap!! ;D

Lol...... set out a pan of Pine-sol. Isn't there some pine scented cover scent that you can buy somewhere from a hunting supply catalog or something? ;D I got to tell you, when my wife gets done decorating our tree, she has so much stuff on it you can't tell whether it's real or fake anyway....lol. It's just a carrier for ornaments and lights. It could probably be made from welded up water pipe and chicken wire. Hang enough crap on it and nobody would know the difference anyway.

Well I'm pretty much done with this anyway. Once ol' WNY decides he doesn't want to discuss something, he switches into dance mode and the fancy footwork begins .... lol. It's a time honored tactic with him and I should have realized that. : As far as mountains and molehills are concerned, I'm sure that there are a some people who really could care less what kinds of things get put into bow season (we've been hearing a lot from them lately) and perhaps the safeguarding of the integrity of bowseason is truly a molehill to them. It doesn't happen to be with me and yes I do worry about the constant erosion of bowseason equipment. If that's making mountains out of molehills, then pass me the shovel.

I'm a bit confused. What exactly is happening here that prompts this resolution? It sounds like trouble. And why is it only region 8 that is reacting? it sounds like a statewide structure change (if I'm reading it right).