Doc

What can you say about an incident like this that hasn't been said everytime another shooting takes place. The saddest part about all of this is that I am no longer surprised or shocked. It has happened way too many times for that kind of reaction. Every year we wait for the news reports of who shot who. We shake our heads and we curse and swear at the ignorance and recklessness, and we try to express the proper level of outrage. And yet we all know that the next year, no matter what we finally manage to say, there will be a new list with new victims. It all boils down to the fact that hunter safety really is an individual state of mind. You can teach the fundamentals of safety, but there will always be a certain number of people who feel they know better, and that such things can never happen to them. They will laugh at your suggestions of safety. They will go out of their way to prove that hunting mishaps only happen to the other guy and that they needn't worry about such things themselves. I guess that's just human nature and you can't teach, cajole, or persuade "human nature". Doc

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Of course, that's exactly what I have been trying to do on several occasions, only to be met with obfuscations that are nothing but baseless accusations of spinning and twisting words, and quite frankly I don't think there is much point in trying to hold any further conversations with you on this. My only hope is that there are not too many people who share your flawed logic about trying to cover the perceived and exaggerated shortcomings of bows by introducing more stuff into bow season. I know you insist that somehow that logic magically stops at crossbows, but quite frankly you know as well as I do that for many people who are eager to force access into bowseasons, that it does not.

Trying to determine ownership of the deer based on "first killing shot" can get into all kinds of complications. Obviously if the deer is on it's feet hours after it is first shot, It's going to take some kind of forensic study to determine how "lethal" that first shot was. I have never had an issue with this because in my mind if some guy is blood trailing the deer, I have no problem with putting the thing down and handing the deer over to him. I don't know whether that is right or wrong .... legally or morally required or not, but to me it just feels like the right thing to do.

Just a word about your reference to people coming in and buying .17 caliber rifles for big-game. Obviously they should know better, but also, one would think that the law would have set some kind of minimum requirement on caliber size ...... they have not. Center fire is all that is used to describe a legal deer rifle in NYS. :

I would think that going afield without any weapons, and taking Fido out for a little exercise and a walk probably wouldn't be doing anything illegal.

So somebody, somewhere must have the info complete with details. I know when I was looking for info on blaze orange relationships to hunting accidents, there was info available but it was not as current as I would have liked it. I'll have to go back and see what the sources were that were listed.

A good portion of the season has had screwed up weather. But then thinking back on other years, I can remember quite a few ugly years, some cases even the gun season opener was nearly un-huntable. Let's face it, this time of the year is just plain nasty. I went down to the state land parking lot this morning and it was empty. I kind of figured that at least one or two brave souls would be out taking advantage of his last opportunity to score. Maybe everyone got their deer already and are done ...... lol. The funny thing is that here in my area it really didn't turn out that bad. The rain has been very, very light and basically no wind at all. If I wasn't tagged out, this would be a very promising hunting day. We still have snow on the ground (but it's going fast). I think guys have just had enough for this year. Maybe some are holding out for the muzzleloader season.

I keep hearing these hunting fatality reports and otherhunter wounding incidents dribbling out with different ones being reported here and there. I have to wonder if anyone ever publishes a season long tally of all of the states deaths and other incidents. Anyone who has ever tried to find a final tally of such info usually finds it pretty hard to come by and published totals always seem to be different depending on the news source. In previous years I have found that even DEC news releases seem to vary. So if anyone was interested in knowing the full extent of such incidents and what the surrounding circumstances actually are, does anyone know of a credible place that keeps track of such things?

It would be interesting to see just what the difference is between the raw data and the final published data. Interesting but probably not all that useful. I think the post data-gathering processing is a pretty big deal and probably a lot more complicated than we imagine. I realize that raw report data is terribly incomplete and probably meaningless without the massaging techniques. I think a lot of the early reporting has to wait for the establishment of the calculated "reporting rate" and who knows what else that has to be gathered, calculated and baked into the formula. That's why I am always a bit surprised at how quickly they begin making comments about the season and actually start publishing early harvest trends. Doc

Kind of makes you wonder what kinds of weapons they were storing there .... Has anybody checked to see if those white deer glow in the dark?

But on the positive side ....... look at all the extra meat he got from this deer. sorry .... ;D

I guess I don't know what the previous two replies are referring to. Just a random, "attacking" kind of comment I guess. But the fact is the only thing I was commenting on was the promptness of the remarks regarding opening weekend harvests. I really didn't say anything about the report being up, down, or sideways. So I have no idea what those last two replies were referring to. Doc

I believe there are identifying weapons limitations and other special regulations involved in the muzzleloader seasons as well. I'm not sure if that's how you are using the term or not. As far as the NYB, I have had disagreements with the leadership there in the past and have had some pretty heated discussions with them. However, like all such organizations, things don't always go my way and eventually I have to decide whether to abandon the only effective bowhunter advocacy group in NYS and just let seasons and regulations and other matters relating to bowhunting be determined by others including those who have shown a certain level of open hostility toward bowhunters. I have had my problems with some of the positions of the NRA also, but just as with the NYB, I have chosen to maintain membership based on the benefits that they provide the sport and the fact that when organized, we have some voice and without organization we have none. I suppose everyone has to decide whether the benefits out-weigh the disagreements in any organization we consider belonging to. That's a personal decision. Doc

That's why surprise inspections and testing would be required. It's kind of like that old no-tresspassing sign: "This property is protected by a pack of vicious dogs three days a week ...... You guess which days." Make the fines something that gets their attention, and just the threat of a surprise test would keep them honest.

Regarding the illegal baiting situation, a few pictures of the bait sites and and a trip to the nearest ECO or regional DEC headquarters with details and I think that problem could be ended before the end of the day. Doc

Hey! those aluminum arrows still fly great. However I'm not giving any away. I have one other trait that I have cultivated over the years ....... I'm cheap!! ;D

Lol...... set out a pan of Pine-sol. Isn't there some pine scented cover scent that you can buy somewhere from a hunting supply catalog or something? ;D I got to tell you, when my wife gets done decorating our tree, she has so much stuff on it you can't tell whether it's real or fake anyway....lol. It's just a carrier for ornaments and lights. It could probably be made from welded up water pipe and chicken wire. Hang enough crap on it and nobody would know the difference anyway.

Well I'm pretty much done with this anyway. Once ol' WNY decides he doesn't want to discuss something, he switches into dance mode and the fancy footwork begins .... lol. It's a time honored tactic with him and I should have realized that. : As far as mountains and molehills are concerned, I'm sure that there are a some people who really could care less what kinds of things get put into bow season (we've been hearing a lot from them lately) and perhaps the safeguarding of the integrity of bowseason is truly a molehill to them. It doesn't happen to be with me and yes I do worry about the constant erosion of bowseason equipment. If that's making mountains out of molehills, then pass me the shovel.

I'm a bit confused. What exactly is happening here that prompts this resolution? It sounds like trouble. And why is it only region 8 that is reacting? it sounds like a statewide structure change (if I'm reading it right).

I guess they must be primarily a farmland bird eh? We have a lot of what used to be farmland about 40 or 50 years ago, but most of it you have to use a bit of imagination or a real good memory to know that it was ever farmed ..... lol. I get the impression that that is probably not the best habitat for doves. Doc

Ha-ha .... an old hunting buddy of mine used to have a term he used to describe those deer that just all of a sudden "appear". He used to call them Parachute Deer because it was like they just silently came down from the sky without a sound. I've seen that happen. Look to the left....look to the right.....by the time you swing your head back again, there stands the deer. ;D Doc

The rump picture is one that I purposely left out because of the gruesome nature of the pic. In my opinion, it just didn't seem to be a proper thing to post on a family-style forum. It was a judgement call. Doc

Disclosing the recipe is one thing, but will there be provisions for visits to random sites to make surprise inspections and fluid tests to guarantee that the recipes supplied are what is actually being used?

You offer up a crossbow as a crutch that will solve your perception that vertical bows need some help with their shortfall of requiring practice. Of course stopping at just a crossbow is a limit that you do not have the power to control, do you? And, I am saying that that whole line of reasoning opens the door for those who would suggest that other weapons (and yes, guns) be included for exactly the same reason. Whether you personally would draw the line at crossbows or not is irrelevant. If you had bothered to read any of my replies, you would have known that I was not saying that you are for guns being included in bowseasons, but you are supplying the logic for others to do so. I understand that it may be more convenient to try to deflect with words like spin and word-twisting. You may have noticed that I get pretty "dug-in" when those tactics are used. Sorry about that but I simply will not let allegations like that stand without challenge.