Doc

Yup! we had a dug well on the property that was in the woods about half way up the hill (about the last place you would look for such a thing). It was years before we ever discovered it. If there had been an incident of someone falling into that uncovered well, we would have played hell in court trying to prove that we didn't know of its existance and that we were not negligent in terms of maintaining a hazard on our property. While the liability laws have been modified, there are still a lot of things that you are still liable for. Unless you are a lawyer, I doubt there are too many landowners that know exactly what they all are. But victim's lawyers know them all. Doc

There is only one thing that makes taking a buck more difficult than a doe. That is the sheer difference in numbers of each. I have never seen a doe making a rub or scrape, announcing their presence and habits. I have never seen a doe begin to spend every waking hour wandering around in search of breeding opportunities. I have never seen a buck take on the role of "look-out" like the does are accustomed to doing throughout their lives. I have never seen a buck have to provide the intelligence for offspring. By far, the doe is the more alert, the most defensive minded, and the smarter of the two. The only reason that does eventually turn out to be easier to take is the fact that they outnumber the bucks by a huge margin. So while we often pat ourselves on the back for harvesting bucks, it is the doe that can prove to be the more worthy prey to match wits with. Doc

Actually, I have had situations this year and others where small game hunters have spent the final two hours of the hunting day shooting up the woods within a hundred yards of my stand. By golly, I do believe that really does ruin the hunt. I have had hunters go strolling along a deer trail that I intended to watch. I think there is a pretty good chance that screwed that spot for the next few hours. I have come out from my stand at the end of the hunting day only to find someone set up a short distance away from my stand cutting off the expected direction of a deer's approach. You don't suppose that I am a bit pissed when that happens do you? Anybody that thinks that increased pressure especially directly in the area that you're trying to hunt does not mess up your opportunities simply does not understand the nature of deer. And yes, while I do get pretty upset by these interferences, given a few minutes to cool back down, I realize that the shoe could be on the other foot. If I were hunting squirrels instead of bowhunting for deer I would be right out there with them shooting up the woods (and probably getting a lot more meat for the freezer than I have so far this season .... lol). So it is all very unfortunate, and understandable. Also, when hunter population gets a bit dense, there are always opportunities that my activities might inadvertantly interfere with other hunters. But to think that I am not irritated when those kinds of things happen, is simply totally misunderstanding human behavior. I may quickly get over it, but the reality that my whole hunt has been wasted doesn't really go away. Today, with land access being shut off more and more people are being crowded onto state land. I think it can be pretty much assumed that there will be a lot more cases of interferences. Don't be too surprised if these kinds of things upset someone who is trying to maximize the use of their hunting time. As far as people patrolling their posted property, I have seen hunters literally "take-over" land that was generously left open. Absolutely that turned out to be a situation that was unsafe, and which turned prime hunting territory into useless, driven-out, ex-hunting spots. Also, if you want to see hunter behavior at it's worst, just open your land to the hunting free-for-all. But get used to never again being able to pre-plan your hunt, or count on any kind of patterning or credible scouting. Land gets posted for a reason, and the signs are generally a response to abuse of hospitality. So, people have to do what they have to do. Unless we are the ones paying the exorbitant price per acre of hunting land, or are the ones that pay the over-sized tax burdens that this state just recently voted to perpetuate, or are the ones who create and maintain improvements on the land, I think we should probably limit the level of whining that we do about those that do take on those burdens. Sure, I miss those days when a posted sign was a rare oddity, but times change, population levels increase, farmers have subdivided their properties, and we have a considerablly more crowded world than we did then. You really have four choices. One is to buy your own land. The other is to hunt public land. Another choice is to find a friend that owns land. The last choice is to go to a pay-to-hunt property. Oh, and of course there is a fifth choice that a lot of hunters prefer and that is to simply disregard the rights of the landowner and trespass. Doc

I've put in a lot of hunting seasons, and seen a lot of changes, and I can tell you that each bow season interferences get worse and worse. I don't really think that most of the time it is anybody's fault. But with hunting land access shrinking, and more toys available, and some people with a lot of free time, it is a natural change. The problems that I have been having with small game hunters on state land is really nobody's fault. In fact, if I wasn't bow hunting, I would would be joining them (and by the way, I would have a whole lot more meat in the freezer by now .... lol). So, I think these things are just annoyances that we have to get used to. No need to think they will ever get any better and I fully expect them to get far worse with each year. Of course that won't stop me from whining about them, but in most cases, I do understand what's going on and I try real hard not to get too irritated. Doc

Drive-bys that involve crossbows??? I guess I've heard everything now.

It sounds as though everybody has heard a different story on how fish & game management is funded, and where our license fees and fine revenues actually go. It is interesting how something that should be super-public is so hard to find proveable, credible information on. Doc

Yes, it is a strange tradition that I really don't understand. It looks like a form of Haloween vandalism that got accepted and institutionalized .... lol. Doc

My stand was ruined again by small game hunters blasting up the woods all around where I was trying to get the deer to move a bit before dark. That situation is getting pretty frustrating. But the whole afternoon hunt was pretty much a joke. These guys kept up a steady barrage between 3:30 and 5:30. I don't know what the heck they are shooting at. maybe each other. I keep trying to hunt the area because I know there is a pretty decent buck that works that area. He's scraping and rubbing like mad, and if I could just get a break, I might be able to close the distance on that guy. I've seen him a few times. You would think that hunting on a Wednesday a guy might find things a little bit peaceful. But apparently no body works anymore ..... lol. Doc

Well, inspite of all the weeping and wailing and fake disgust with albany, I see that for the most part, the state vote went pretty liberal as usual. As they say, we get the government we deserve. I guess I won't be putting a whole lot of stock in the mass whining about NYS and it's government anymore. We had a chance to do something about it and didn't. By the way, from a sportsmen's and gun-owner's perspective, the state election was a special disaster. I'm happy to say that the elections for national offices went much better as the nation's voters really did put their votes where their mouths are (at least in the assembly). Doc

Check in with the DEC. They monitor the effects of starvation on road-killed deer (marrow checks), and I'm sure they would be happy to educate you on incidents of starvation along with those that result in death, as well as the dangers of over-browsing, habitat destruction, etc. due to over-population. I think I probably would take their word over yours on matters of that sort and they have published volumes on the the subject. But if you don't want to read "volumes" on the subject, just invest a phone call and see what they have to say on the subject. Starvation is a natural part of the whitetail life to one extent or another. It is always just a question of whether they can outlast the winter even in the best of years. Some do and some don't. And yes, excessive populations that over-browse their habitat can precipitate massive starvation losses. I've seen that personally as I described previously. By the way, starvation is starvation whether it occurs in yarding conditions or not as well as regardless of weather. The basic cause for starvation is lack of food whether that lack of food is aggravated by yarding, extended or extra-harsh winters, extreme environments or whatever. These are all normal environmental and behavioral conditions that deer must cope with. So there's no point in discounting those conditions in this discussion. Doc

The idea of using doe permits to "right-size" total deer populations to keep them in balance with habitat, is a useful and necessary tool, and really has nothing directly to do with AR. I really wish I had been into photography back in the 80's. If I had been, I would have been able to post pictures of the horrific deer yards at the south end of Honeoye Lake. That was a picture perfect example of deer populations run amok. It was quite an eye-opener. There were hundreds of deer standing in the woods and in the fields, pretty much just waiting to die, standing right along lumps in the snow that were deer that already had. I have never seen deer in such a pitiful state. The fences had some corpses hanging from them of deer that tried to jump them and didn't have the strength to clear them. Along the East Lake road, you could drive right up to deer that didn't have the strength to move out of the way. They destroyed the habitat for quite a few years thereafter, as they ate everything that they could reach. The population readjustment came as a rather catestrophic population collapse that wasn't a real pretty thing to watch. The only thing that has kept this from re-occurring is the antlerless permit management tool. Once you have seen how deer populations can get out of control, you really don't want to see it again and it gets real obvious real quick that herd population control (doe harvest) is a necessary thing. Now, having said all that, I do believe that things can be taken way too far to the other extreme as well. In fact, I have seen that too. It is entirely possible that that is what people are experiencing in PA. I'm not a regular visitor down there, so I don't know. Population control is a tricky thing, and apparently not real easy to get exactly right. However, I do defend the efforts to do so because I have seen what happens if you don't do an adequate job ...... and it's not a real pretty thing to watch. Does the antlerless harvest impact the buck population? ...... I can't see how it couldn't. After all, it from does that bucks come last time I knew. Not only does a certain percentage of the antlerless harvest contain button bucks, but fewer does are going to produce fewer buck fawns annually. That's pretty easy to follow. The other side of the coin is that not harvesting enough deer can cause fewer bucks for the reasons stated above. So, if you want to maximize buck numbers, you have to do a very tricky balancing act. And the tool used to pull off that balancing act is the antlerless permit system. You really can't manage a herd at all without it. Doc

Ha - ha ..... Now there's a picture of a happy hunter, and for good reason. Nice buck .... congrats! Doc

See, that's where that internet computer hunting would have been perfect for bowhunters who can no longer pull back their bow. Your never too old to work a keyboard. Maybe they could come up with a version that uses a bow. ;D If you could still work your fingers, you could claim you are still bowhunting. That would be much easier than using claymores. :

I will be ready! If the rest of this season goes the same as the beginning, I will be ready for revenge. Those deer that have been laughing at me and staying just out of range might be a bit sorry that they have been messing with me.

Well, as humans, we know that at least two of those legs aren't really necessary ....... lol.

I agree with everything you've said, but those are reasons to be out enjoying nature, not necessarily things that only hunting can provide. Hikers or wildlife photographers could say the same things, and have nothing to do with hunting at all. Certainly there are other more basic things that make you want to do these things while carrying a bow or rifle. I almost think that most of us have a hard time understanding exactly what it is that makes us hunters. Either that or we know it but can't explain it. It's funny how we can fanatically do something all our lives and then struggle so much with the question of "why". I sure don't have it all figured out. I have a bunch of theories, but have never seen anyone actually discuss or define what the driving force behind hunting really is. Doc

There's nothing to understand about the question. We all spend a lot of time, money, effort and interest on hunting. The question is simply, why do we do it? No more complicated than that.

That was an interesting article. While they didn't specifically ID what percentage of the budget goes to fish and wildlife or other sportsmen related concerns, they did kind of illustrate just how varied the duties of the DEC are and how our concerns as hunters, fishermen and trappers are just a tiny part of the total scope of the department. So it looks like our money is not earmarked for any specific activities, and could even be used for that Belleayre Ski Center, or the administration of the Bottle Bill, or campgrounds or any number of other things they are responsible for. That info kind of puts things in a bit of perpesctive in terms of just where we stand and how influencial we are ...... or NOT. It looks possible that even the Pittman-Robertson money could easily get stirred in with Love Canal type investigations, mining permits, or any number of non-wildlife affiliated action items. I don't know about bike trails, but that write-up sure does show exactly how much stuff our license and permit money could be used on besides those items directly related to hunting, fishing and trapping. It looks like that whole monsterous bureacracy that exists for the entire population of NYS is supported primarily by sportsmen (at least to the tune of 58% of the total resources). That's quite a financial burden to put on such a tiny minority. And then too, remember that we also shoulder the same tax burden for the other 42% that non-sportsmen contribute. It was interesting reading. Doc

I have never seen an accounting of what money is earmarked for what. I am assuming that license fees are only part of the operating budget for the entire DEC and I would assume that there are other funds that come directly from the state treasury. Where it all comes from and what decides how it is all budgeted is kind of a mystery. So most likely there are creative budgeting procedures that can make the money be used for whatever the DEC or the Governor wants it to be used for. We know there is some way that Paterson sends an edict to the DEC to cut staff and other resources and thereby gets money for state budgetary purposes, so it does seem like no matter what the intent for certain funds is, it all winds up treated like one giant slush fund and in one way or another finds itself available to the Governor. Wouldn't it be nice to see a pie chart that showed where money comes from and another one that shows where the money goes. I have a feeling that what we think certain funds are earmarked for is not exactly what it winds up being used for at all including federal Pittman-Robertson money. But I have never seen any public accounting for that. Doc

That picture cracks me up everytime I look at it. I don't think that is a photoshopped picture either. If it is, it's the best one I've ever seen and every detail of lighting and reflections have been worked out.

Ok, pilgrim.

No, just using Sit's remark as part of a response. But I'm sure the Duke would have agreed. Clint Eastwood probably would have added that a man's gotta understand his limitations. That would be appropriate too. Doc

RangerClay- You know, this may have been a good time to get the cops involved. I believe that a fairly serious crime had been committed, and they just might have taken the attempted killing/maiming/whatever, serious enough to launch an investigation. I think I would have reported it and stressed the point that someone is out there intent on doing bodily harm, and without some law enforcement pressure may try that again or perhaps some other form of attempted assault. It seems to me that now you are stuck with the knowledge that someone out there wants to do you harm and you don't know who, how, or when. Doc

Yes, whether we like it or not, or whether we get stuck in denial or not, or bury ourselves in pretense, there is no turning back the clock. And sure enough we will all be riding or be carried "off into the sunset". Doc

There! Excellent reply. I think that gets closest to the real forces (instinct) behind hunting for most or perhaps even all of us, particularly the quote from Ann Causey. Doc