Doc

Yes, whether we like it or not, or whether we get stuck in denial or not, or bury ourselves in pretense, there is no turning back the clock. And sure enough we will all be riding or be carried "off into the sunset". Doc

There! Excellent reply. I think that gets closest to the real forces (instinct) behind hunting for most or perhaps even all of us, particularly the quote from Ann Causey. Doc

I have. I shot a rather large doe that had one front leg that was missing the lower half. The wound was healed over with skin that looked a lot like the exposed skin of a dogs paw. The deer moved along with almost an un-noticeable limp. She could run just as well and fast as others. I watched her all summer long. She lived in the thicket in front of my house, and seemed to never go up the hill. Because of that, she was super-fat. The amazing thing was that she had a fawn, and seemed to be living a fairly normal life. I think that it makes a difference as to whether the damaged leg is a front one, or a rear one (the power legs) as to how well they fare. Doc

Somebody's goat got out??? ;D That sure is some weird coloration. My son got a piebald buck a bunch of years ago, and it made a pretty interesting mount. Congratulations on a unique kill. Doc

Don't misunderstand this question. I am not asking about excuses or apologies for why we hunt and I am not trying to sooth the feelings of any anti-hunters. I am simply trying to understand why we hunt. We spend a lot of time, effort and money on hunting as a recreation. I am among a segment of hunters that even gets down-right fanatic over the activity, and once begun, it seems like an activity that lasts a lifetime. It seems kind of interesting to me to understand just what it is that drives us to do it. Aside from natural curiosity, it is also useful to understand the reasons enough to be able to explain it when asked. Who knows, maybe we wouldn't be seeing our numbers deteriorating if we knew better how to explain what we do to new recruits and other non-hunters when they show an interest. Doc

I've got to admit, they sure are comical when all of a sudden they realize what exactly they have gotten so close to. That reaction says it all.

Wow ..... another AR thread. I guess the arguments must get more convincing through quantity .... eh? ;D Might be a good idea to merge all 4 or 5 threads into one since they are all pretty much repeats of each other. Doc

I saw another two deer tonight. One was a buck, but I couldn't see him clear enough to see how big a rack. I saw the white of antlers, but he was quite a ways out and screened a bit by hemlock boughs so I couldn't make out any details. About 5 minutes before quitting time, a doe came down the trail. Got my wind and took off. She never knew where I was but knew I was there someplace. The wind was see-sawing back and forth all night. I'm actually glad that the buck stayed way off the trail or I would have educated him too. I probably should have gone home when I saw what the wind was doing. But if I ran home everytime the wind was screwed up this year, I wouldn't get any hunting in. Whenever I hunt up around the big ravine, I can count on circling winds. That whole area up there just raises heck with any wind direction. That's probably why the bigger bucks hang out up there. They have things pretty much their own way. They may not always know which way the human scent is coming from, but then they don't have to. You know, looking back over the season so far, I have to admit that I have had some pretty good luck in terms of seeing deer from my stands. Only one stand where I saw absolutely nothing, and all that with some of the crappiest weather I have experienced in quite a few years. I seem to have them located pretty well, the problem is fine-tuning my locations to get those sightings to occur within bow range. The bucks are not on the trails which makes that pretty tough, but the law of averages says that sooner of later one of them is going to slip up. Doc

So far, there isn't a whole lot of reasons being given for carrying a rifle or bow rather than simply a camera or just a hiking stick. What makes this question kind of relevant is that on more occasions than just a few, non-hunters have asked me this same question over the years. I too usually stumble around the answer, trying hard not to address the killing part of the activity. So I was curious as to just what it is that puts us afield with weapons instead of other non-lethal equipment or no equipment at all. It's not that easy a question to answer. Let's face it, if we didn't intend to kill, we wouldn't be carrying a gun or a bow. So there is a necessary element of killing involved. That's just the nature of the activity. The problem is figuring out a way to put that into perspective without sounding just plain "blood-thirsty". I know there are all kinds of more palatable reasons for the killing aspect of hunting. We like to talk about population control and the thrill of the hunt, and all the surrounding experiences of just being out in nature, but there are some things that are way more basic than that for me and far more central to what we do and what we are. For me there is an aspect of individualism and self reliance involved. Providing meat for myself and family by my own hand is part of it. Just knowing that I still can and that society has not wrung that ability out of me yet is some of it. There is also a piece of history, heritage and culture involved. A feeling of not having lost that last piece of rugged individualism that our ancestors had. I suppose if you want to dig deeply enough into the psyche of a hunter, you will also find connections with the natural predatory nature of humans, and a connection with the same things that caused man to pick up a rock and kill their first meal of meat. These are all the intangibles that photogrphic images or other non-consumptive pursuits of wild animals can't satisfy. I actually feel there is something honorable and natural in the whole thing. It has nothing to do with trophies and heads hanging on the wall, but rather simply an activity that celebrates what we are and where we came from in an honest fashion. Yeah, there's a whole lot more to it than just enjoying a meal of venison once in a while or sitting in the woods listening to birds and watching and experiencing nature. Those things are important, but when we are hunting, there is something much more primal and much more connected with history and human DNA going on. That's why for some of us, hunting is not simply a choice. It is a lifelong need. So these are all the things that inspired the question. I was just a bit curious as to how hunting may be viewed differently by other people. Doc

2-1/2 years old? ....... absolutely have and absolutely will take them now and in the future. 1-1/2 yr olds? ..... I certainly have taken my share of them over the years. Haven't in a long time, but I don't regret the ones I did take. In my younger years we enjoyed every bite and didn't worry for a minute that it might not have been up to someone else's standards. It was meat on the table. Today, we don't eat that much venison with the kids gone and everything, so I can afford to be a bit picky if I want. But if I see the end of the season getting near and I don't have venison in the freezer, the 1-1/2 yr olds better steer clear of me too. Doc

I guess I didn't catch why this guy can't hunt during gun season. Is there some problem with that. For people with arm, hand, shoulder and back problems, the gun is actually the more suitable weapon. When I can no longer pull my bow, that is exactly what I intend to do. That is if the rest of my body is up to even that. You know, hunting is a physical activity and whether we want to admit it or not, there does come a time when we will no longer be able to do what we use to. If I can't bowhunt, the next logical step is to gun hunt. If the time comes that I can not pick up and shoot a gun, then I guess the crossbow probably won't help either. What I probably won't do is to throw a tantrum and try to take it out on everyone around me because I'm not being accomodated.

It appears to be a novelty reprint of some ancient article that is about a century out of date. In the article they mention some NYC resident who visited the area for the first time since 1869, and there are other references to the 1800s. I'm not sure why it is dressed up to look like a modern day New York Times article, but it has nothing to do with current news and likely is some Peta inspired hoax. Doc

Anybody ever wonder about the effects of hacking so heavily on the doe populations and how that impacts the numbers of future bucks? It is the does that actually produce the bucks isn't it? It seems to me that there is a whole lot more to this herd management than just counting antler points, and trying to get to a 1:1 gender ratio. There is an awful lot of uncalculated interactions that come with every new management fad and I don't think there are a whole lot of people (if any) who really understand them all. Doc

What I have noticed is that the wind almost always seems to die back down just before dark. Unfortunately that is so close to the end of shooting hours that it never turns out to do any good. As far as arrow drift in heavy winds, I guess I never thought much about that, but I know from some practice sessions in high winds that it can be a significant factor in point of impact. That probably should be a consideration especially when taking longer shots. I am almost to the point where I think most of you have already come to. That is that it may be a better use of my time to find something else to do when the tree-bending winds are flying out there. Doc

And she probably didn't even say thank-you.

We've got a Pudgies restaurant here in Canandaigua that is apparently owned by a hunter that has had more than a few successful African hunts. The restaurant is filled with all kinds of mounts and hunting success pictures. Everything is done in a tasteful manner, and is totally accepted and of interest to hunter and non-hunter alike. It kind of shows me that the non-hunting public is completely accepting of hunting and actually interested in the activity as long as the they don't have the distasteful aspects being shoved in their face. That sort of care and thought in our own pictures most likely works exactly the same way outside of that restaurant too. It doesn't hurt to go through a little extra care to do our part toward putting a positive face on our sport. Doc

I noticed some comments on another thread that are kind of picking around the edges of why we hunt. So rather than pulling that thread farther off-topic, I thought I would start a new thread devoted to that question. So I am curious, what drives each of us to head out each fall in pursuit of wild game? I suppose there will be the usual answers about all the nutricious meat, and that may be big in some people's minds, but isn't there something a little more basic that makes us feel the need to go out and get our own food or test our skills against a live animal? In some cases, the need centers more on the trophy aspect than the meat. I'll bet we don't all have the same reasons. Doc

I really don't mind a little bit of a breeze, but when the trees are bending over and huge limbs are busting off, The deer aren't the only ones that get nervous. I have watched deer that for some reason have gotten up on their feet in a high wind, and they certainly look like the perfect picture of paranoia. There just is nothing that gets by them. But mainly I have noticed that high winds suppress movement. That's not helping out the cause any, and frankly I'm getting pretty darn upset watching my season going down the toilet with day after day of gale force winds. Doc

Just like last year, I have come across far more scrapes than I have rubs. This is exactly opposite what I have seen in all my previous years of hunting. Actually, I have seen way more bucks than the sign would indicate. Can't explain it. It looks like we are developing "stealth bucks". ;D Doc

I don't know about being offended, but I've got to say that even as a hunter, I don't get any real charge out of looking at pictures that are taken for obvious "shock value". It doesn't do a thing for me ..... lol. There's nothing wrong with being a bit conscious of what is normally considered to be simply disgusting and poor taste. Certainly I am not overly sensitive since as a hunter, I have many times been elbow deep in the gore and internals of deer and other game. However, I don't think it really serves any purpose to take pictures just to see who you can gross out. What's the point? Generally I take pictures of the deer to highlight the animal and document the event. It serves no purpose to have attention unduly taken away from that by some distracting display of gore or sloppy posing of the animal. It's not a big deal, but just a little piece of personal preference in the way I like to document the results of my hunting. Doc

As much as it does truly pain me to have to agree with Sits ..... lol .... he actually does have a point that people here really had better think about. There definitely is a disregard for law and order that some of these trespassers have when they knowingly cross that posted line, and we definitely should understand the potential risks involved with dealing with these kinds of individuals. Taking time to size-up the mental stability and make-up of these characters is always a good idea before planning just how to proceed. Keep the situation under control. I generally have a bit of conversation with these people before I confront them with the trespass talk. That all just gives you a chance to size them up a bit and perhaps get a look at their back tag and maybe learn a bit about their ID, and maybe the location of their car and anything else that would help in prosecution. Also, the hand-gun thing (or any weapon). Unless you are in imminent personal danger or threatened with violence, menacing with a firearm is a situation you likely will never pull off without some serious legal harm. So, think before you act. There may be a lot more at stake than you realize. Also, when weapons become involved, you never really know how the situation might evolve. Pulling a gun could escalate the situation into result that is not at all what you might plan. I understand the frustration of having people trample all over your rights as a landowner, but there is a right way and a wrong way to respond while safeguarding your physical, legal and financial well-being. Doc

Yeah, but when you take a look at some of the great camps that some of these guys have got with the rustic setting and the lack of all the distractions of home life, you have to admit that there has to be something special about packing up all the gear and heading out to camp for some time that is purely set aside and devoted to hunting and nothing else. Add to that the comraderie of a bunch of fellow hunters, and it all becomes an "event" rather that just another day at home. At least that's the way I picture it all. Yes, I do enjoy the convenience of hunting out of the house on land that I can scout year round any time I want strictly at a whim. But there are other benefits to life at a hunting camp that provide a unique hunting experience. My brother-in-law and I even built a cabin up on top of the hill years ago, about 3/4 mile from the house just to have the hunting camp experience. We used it for a bunch of years and it was great but he lives up in Canada and was re-assigned to the west and can't get down here anymore for hunting. So the cabin hasn't been used in quite a few years now. Doc

And the wind keeps blowing ..... and blowing ...... and blowing. I finally gave up early tonight. I expected that any deer I might see go by would probably be tumbling, and I really haven't practiced my moving shots lately to see if I could actually shoot a deer that was going end over end. I did notice some rather large limbs coming out of the trees this afternoon which kind of had me nervously eyeballing some of those dead limbs hanging out over my head on the big old oak that my stand is located behind. The other thing I noticed was that the harder the wind blows, the more likely that each gust will be followed by a back-flow that blows right out to the trail. I've been hitting it kind of hard since the season started so I guess I deserved a break anyway. I have some medical stuff to take care of tomorrow so that day is completely off. As I understand it, it isn't supposed to be any prize anyway. Saturday, I will be ready to resume the battle, fully rested and refurbished. Doc

One thing that can help (wherever possible) is to establish an ATV trail around the perimeter or as close to it as possible. There is something about fresh ATV tracks that lends credibilty to the "patrolled" part of the -posted and patrolled- language on your posted signs. I've found that most potential trespassers get a bit nervous when they realize that the landowner actually does patrol his property or I should say that this tactic has significantly cut the incidents of trespassing on my property. The beauty of is that today with the electric ATV's, they can't even be sure that there will be a audible warning that you're coming. The trail also provides help in accessing the posted line for sign repairs and replacements. Doc

I'm thinking that the best way to check the thing out would be to have a buck that is obviously out of range and is going to keep right on walking away. Let loose with it and see what his reaction is. Trying to use the call for just "blind calling" doesn't tell you that the thing doesn't work or whether there simply isn't a buck within earshot. Doc