Doc

Yes, I think there are definite features on a crossbow that relate to a gun, but I still don't think that anyone is giving "a spin on the definition of a crossbow as a gun". I think that anyone with decent vision can see that a crossbow is not a gun and is not a bow. And, I don't know anyone who is really confused on that point. There are those that would blur the lines on those definitions, but a crossbow is a unique and specific weapon that should not be confused with either a bow or a gun. Doc

Some of these deer just don't know how many antlers they're supposed to be growing. ;D I think he went past his quota by a few.

I wonder if you might have some liability if someone got hurt while using your stand ....... even without permission. I think I would not leave a stand installed on public land. Also, those things are a bit too expensive to leave behind. I would not be surprised to see it sprout legs one of these days. You may very well be fortunate that it was only the scent-bombs that were taken. As far as the mess left behind, it seems that I never spend much time on state land without coming out with pockets full of wrappers, cans, bags, zip-lok bags, surveyors tape and all kinds of trash that someone has thrown down on the ground. It's crazy! And by the way, it is not just hunters that do this. The hikers and bikers that swarm all over our little chunk of state land all summer seem to be pretty big litter-bugs too. There's no excuse for that kind of mess, but there also doesn't seem to be any way of stopping it. Doc

I didnt pull out an "imaginary dictionary" and come up with anything. Ive posted the definitions of crossbows in the past, use google and look it up for yourself. FITA and most of the other major archery organizations consider a crossbow to be archery equipment. I dont see you saying the same thing when someone gives a spin on the definition of a crossbow as a gun. I wonder why? Pretty convenient that you start your brow beating only when someone disagrees with your opinion. : Like I said, Id like to see all archery equipment in archery season. I'm not browbeating anyone, and by the way, I have never said that a crossbow is a gun. In fact, I have never seen anyone saying that a crossbow is a gun. I have no idea where you come up with this stuff. It must be from that imaginary dictionary that says that a crossbow is a bow and belongs in bow season.

I have first hand experience of being in that situation. It's not fun. My experience was with deep snow on a steep unmaintained mountain road. We wound up walking off the hill and down into Naples to buy a set of chains and then climbing back up the hill to put them on and get the heck out of there. At the top of the road, there was a steep stretch that turned out to be a point of no return. After sliding down that 50 yards, like a bobsled totally out of control, we knew we were in trouble. I knew there was no going out the bottom because of twisting steep areas, so the only way out was to somehow get back up the stretch we had just slid down. Of course that was impossible. So we had to hike down into Naples for the tire chains. We turned around in an old driveway used for logging after we got the chains on. That did the trick and we made it back up that steep part, but the entire day's hunt was wrecked. Doc

Has anyone ever seen a slug wound that was about 8 to 10 inches in diameter that obliterated the poop-chute and all that area around it? The confusion is because, as I explained, I did not include the picture of that wound because I decided it would be in poor taste. It's just a bloody mass of ripped up meat. However, I can assure you that it was no slug wound or broadhead wound or an antler wound. To be blunt, the ass end was eaten out of this deer while it was alive. The whole area under the tail and completely across the whole white area on the rear was missing for about an inch or better deep. I will agree that the other wounds could have been made in several different ways, but that big rump wound has only one explanation, Unless somebody is shooting explosive ammo ;D . Perhaps this animal was the world's most unlucky deer and was the victim of two or more different kinds of wounds, but I don't think so. Most likely what ever happened to that big area on his back end is related to the two wounds on the neck and the one in the side of the ham. By the way, I lost a heck of a lot of meat on those roasts.

Opinions posted on an internet forum is not being self righteous. You want legal advice check with a lawyer. You want opinions check out internet forums. You want to talk about booze and hunting, expect that not everyone is going to see that as a positive thing and most will darn quick let you know how they feel. If you want to call that self-righteous, then feel free to twist that term as far as you want.

The ones that I posted weren't particularly bad. The one that I decided not to post (the butt-shot) was particularly gross. I determined it wasn't appropriate for this forum. Doc

I have never seen a shot that blew a 10" diameter chunk of skin and meat off the back side of a deer.....lol. Also, each of the other wounds were long (3 to 4 inches long) and narrow ..... nothing like a slug hole. Also I ruled out archery wounds because of the number of them. Also, the age of these wounds look older than anything made since gun season began. Actually, I have seen wounds of this kind before back when we used to have sheep and dogs got into them. These are tearing wounds not punctures which is consistant with canine attacks. Doc

I love it when these discussions degenerate into people pulling out their imaginary dictionarys and trying to declare their personal versions of term definition. It happens about a dozen times in each one of these crossbow threads. Look, just admit that you want to jam weapons other than bows into bowseason and be done with it. That I understand and we don't have to sit there and parse every syllable and play the Clinton game of defining what the meaning of "is" is.........again.

Ha -ha that is funny. The same thing was running through my mind. As the protest kept growing with each reply, I started getting the same idea that maybe there is no "friend" ...... and yea Doc, you just never let us down, this is pretty much the school yard response i would expect from you, Oh, lighten up a bit! for crying out loud. You seem to be the only one here that is trying to defend the booze and gunpowder mix. And you keep going on and on about it as if you are looking for approval. Thankfully, I don't think you will find too many that do approve, but don't be getting upset if you happen to get a few opinions on a forum. It's kind of what forums are for. Doc

Ha -ha that is funny. The same thing was running through my mind. As the protest kept growing with each reply, I started getting the same idea that maybe there is no "friend" ......

And yet today, in NYS thousands of hunters are wandering around the woods asking each other where all the deer went ..... lol. They do seem to learn something when those first shots go off opening morning, and many of them seem to be quite adept at making fools of us all. I suspect that boils down to something beyond just instinct. Doc

I would. I would like to see shows that I can relate to. And maybe a show here and there that has some real useful info. If these guys are such "experts", what is wrong with doing a bit of education along the way. Frankly, I could get into shows that focus on certain specific aspects of hunting. For example, how many of us know everything there is about blood trailing, or scouting and all the interpretation of various kinds of sign, and how about all the decisions that go into stand placement in different circumstances. Or how about a show on the selection and use of trail cams or other pieces of hunting equipment. I like the Deer & Deer-hunting style shows where they actually try to tell you something interesting and/or useful. Yeah, I would like to see some of that "actual work" in real average hunting areas and hunting situations. I do not really get off on the rather boring parade of ridiculous farm-raised deer. Frankly, I think some of those genetic freaks look rather stupid. There is an awful lot of info about hunting that doesn't even involve shooting a deer that could be tailored to conditions that real actual hunters encounter every year. What I have found with most of these whitetail hunting shows is that they are predictable, routine, and just plain boring. Everything is the same except for the particular hunter-hero playing his role. You could pick any show from the past 20 years and replay it and everyone would think they were brand new. There is nothing memorable or unique about any one of them. Doc

These pictures are a bit graphic, and I left out the one that showed all the damage around the butt-hole. That one was really gross. The first pic is a wound on the left side of the neck. The 2nd is a similar wound on the right side of the neck. The 3rd is a wound on the rear flank. They are all deep and all around 3 or 4 inches long or maybe a bit longer. Doc

I'm thinking coyotes too or perhaps dogs. Over the past bunch of years we have had problems with dogs that people just let run free. Doc

Those wounds around the neck and the one on the rear haunch could be antler inflicted, but that area at the back where all the hide was torn right off with some of the meat missing doesn't sound like a result of a fight. Plus the wounds don't really look like puncture wounds. They are more like they were ripped by something sharp.

Yes, we just recently have had resident bears in the area, and that was my first thought. But after thinking about it, I doubt that a bear could actually catch a healthy buck.

Imagine that whole experience if the guy had only a bow in his hands ..... lol. Maybe that's another good argument for treestands....

I shot a 5-point this afternoon that had some serious and odd wounds. I'm not sure what this guy ran into, but I don't ever want to see whatever it was. First of all, there was a large gash on each side of the nape of the neck. Each was about 3 to 4 inches long and were quite deep. Then back toward the rump, there was another similar gash.....real deep. Worst of all, all the hide was stripped off and some of the meat missing around the butt (a patch maybe 10" in diameter) and it almost looked like something had been feeding on this deer while it was still alive. I'm not sure if the meat is going to be any good because the wounds stink pretty bad. I've never seen anything like that before, and haven't got a clue what happened to this poor critter, but I'll say one thing ...... he never would have made it through the winter. I'm thinking about posting some pictures as soon as I figure out which ones are not too gross for the forum. The pictures of the wound at the butt are pretty nasty to look at and wasn't made any better when I was trying to figure out where the butt-hole was. The back end was so messed up that it wasn't real obvious just where the heck the "pooper" was.....lol. Things got really messed up because I was trying not to touch any of the potentially infected meat. Those pictures may not be suitable for this forum. At any rate, I am still trying to figure out just what happened to this guy. I've kind of ruled out a collision with a car because of the neck wounds plus I can't picture how a car would cause the kinds of wounds that he had. Plus he was about 1-1/2 miles from any road. It's just weird! I felt good about putting this guy out of his misery. Doc

Law enforcement loves those gray areas ......

Lol ..... Yes you have a gold mine there ;D

It's pretty hard to buy into DEC numbers when you look at the fact that none of it is ever verified with anything other than more statistical hokus-pokus, but in all fairness, the DEC is stuck with the realities and practicalities of budgets which by the way continue to shrink at alarming rates. Hard counts, aerial surveys and such are simply out of the question. I suspect that they are doing the absolute best with the resources they have. Even their black-art of statistical analysis in herd management is likely to suffer even more with the latest demand for even more cuts in personel and other resources essential to doing their job. We had a Commissioner get canned because he felt compelled to protest the cuts and pointed out that they would no longer be able to do their job (and those are about the kindest words I have ever said about Grannis). I'm not sure just what further the DEC can do beyond offering up their necks on the chopping block. So anyone who wants to place blame or lay down some pressure on someone, should be looking at the state politicians. It appears that they are strangling the DEC. And by the way, this probably is not the best time to be demanding any new fad management schemes. Even though everybody thinks that such changes come with no costs ...... They don't! Doc

Tomorrow's the day in our area according to the weather forecast. Finally, those critters will become visible. Also the tracks will tell the real story about the deer that we are thinking don't exist. Maybe a little more wind than I would like, but what the heck, you can't have everything. Doc

There is a very in-depth NYS study going on that has been in progress for a few years. Check it out. There is some real good scientific info aimed at answering a lot of the questions we have about coyote/deer interactions. http://www.esf.edu/efb/frair/coyote/coyote_main.htm Doc